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What will it take for the Habs to be a contender

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Old
02-21-2011, 08:05 AM
  #76
MTL-rules
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
So only 2 of Plekanec,Gionta and Cammalleri? Who do you keep?

I agree that we need a big,physical elite forward but I think we can win the cup with Plekanec,Gio and Cam in our top6 but Plek have to be the second line center and the skill guy we both want have to be a center
Plekanec is a keeper of course... he's the only real forward we got right now, it's ridiculous, if he doesn't play well so does the team and vice versa.

Between Cammy and Gionta... well, if Cammy has space (meaning bigger linemates), I think he can be a ppg player... but he'll never be one with our team... that and the fact that he's soft and maybe fragile.

Gionta scores goals à la Ryder and Zednik... come on people, the only difference between him and them, it's his defence... that's definitely not worth 5mil over 3 more years.

But Gionta has a full NTC and he's the captain... also, I don't see him being able to get us what we really need... a Clowe/Backes/Brown type player... maybe Cammy can.

So let's keep Plek and Gionta and try to dangle Cammy's name around to get us a Top 6 PF that can score 60 points.

After that, it's just a matter of doing everything we can to land an all-star forward when one is available via trade or free agency... because without one, we're going nowhere.

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Old
02-21-2011, 08:08 AM
  #77
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Another philosophy or incredible goaltending and successful PP.

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02-21-2011, 08:11 AM
  #78
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Mathman looks at numbers without putting them into context. This team hasn't been able to score in years. They're too small and even though they throw plenty of pucks on net, the opposing goalies can see them. Any goalie in the NHL will stop the majority of shots he sees. This has been a problem for this team for years, patches is doing what's needed to score from the dirty areas of the ice, but he can't make up for everyone. Our poor scoring has very little to do with luck and everything to do with poor quality of chances and net presence.

Same thing with Gomez, he isn't just unlucky, he simply isn't very good. With our d healthy though, I feel we could make a run similar to last year if things went our way, but wouldn't be shocked if we lost in the 1st rd. We're the same middle of the pack team we have always been.

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02-21-2011, 08:28 AM
  #79
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Two things IMO that have this team handcuffed are Gomez and Markov. One is inefficient and the other is injured. What to do with either next year I don't have a clue.

The "Markov Effect" has been evolving for over two years now. The simple fact he can't be on the ice is one thing. But there's been constant wear and tear on other d-men. It's great to have the cap room with his LTIR but what good is that when it can't be utilized. And that's my fear of some suggesting the Habs re-sign him because if he gets injured he can retire or go on LTIR. The irony is that the d-man who gets most abused on the boards is the one that's constantly trying to pick up the pieces.

Scott Gomez is just too predictable. I'm sure his lack of linemates contributes but at some point he needs to help make it work. Plekanec is running out of gas and teams are able to focus on his line.

Gomez + Markov = 13 mil. One gets his season started about 3 months later than anyone else and the other is constantly injured.

Get rid of Gomez and and get a Brad Richards type. Somebody who is isn't afraid to play a physical game.

Trade one of Cammalleri or Gionta too and replace with see above. LOL

Forget Markov unless he signs a cheap, bonus laden contract. Try to acquire more top 4 at worst d-men. Tired of the D being built around Markov with one other guy being able to play top 4 minutes and contribute offensively and defensively.

No more Gill for me. It's not his fault but by him chewing up 20 minutes a game puts more strain on the offense. Right now offense generated from the blueline is up to Wiz and Hammer who seem to be cheating more and more. Subban is saddled with Gill. And frankly Gill's PK hasn't been up to snuff either. He either ends up in the box himself or takes himself out of the play by laying down on the ice. Iginla figured that out nicely.

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Old
02-21-2011, 08:29 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Well, we're talking about what is missing on our team, hypothetically, so talking about an healthy/injured player is valid, i think.

Missing an important piece like Savard is obviously a huge loss. But they have Bergeron and Krejci.
Like losing Cammalleri for a year would not be a drama for us.
With the cap, you have to make a choice in you depth.
Everyone is saying that we're not contenders, but every single teams have weaknesses.

For instance, i dont have a big confidence in Vancouver secondary players. Philadelphia and Detroit have great teams, yes, but they also have huge question marks in the net !
Behind Chara, how solid is the Boston's defense ? (They're lucky that Burke is an idiot, though.)

You just cannot have a perfect complete team, you have to make decisions, and sometimes, they're not good, but here, you're just unlucky. It could be worse, because if Plekanec is out, Larsson is ours, but still, the grass is not always greener on the neighbour's garden !
I understand every team has weaknesses, but I'd much rather have Philly's, Detroit's, and Vancouver's weaknesses than what we have. Maybe I just see a lot of weaknesses in this team that will take a lot of work to fix. I see weaknesses everywhere except for the goaltending.

As far as question marks in net. You can win in this league with an OK goalie. Detroit and Philly insulated their goalies with very solid defensemen. Which is something I had stressed the Habs do a number of years ago. When you have a young goalie, you have to, or you should at least try to insulate him with good defensemen. Takes a lot of the pressure off.

Some teams have one weakness, others have many. Habs have many! I'm not one of those guys looking for a cup every year, but I do want to see a progression. The team hasn't progressed in years (the 1st place finish a few years back was an anomaly). They continue to have the same issues, LOL.

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02-21-2011, 08:34 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Luck.

The Habs are one of the unluckiest shooting teams in the league. They're 4th on shots per game, and 26th in goals per game.

They are a much better team than last year, but somehow, they generate over 15% more shots compared to last year... and manage to score less. That's bad luck.

Average shooting luck would not put the Habs ahead of the Flyers, but they would be ahead of the Bruins given average shooting luck.

Luck plays a huge part in hockey in many areas. Failure to recognize this is failure of analysis, plain and simple. And shooting percentage is one of the most luck-driven factors of hockey success there is.
Failure to recognize a failure analysis? Could it be a lack of accuracy in hitting the logo instead of doing what goals' scorers do, which is picking corners?

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02-21-2011, 08:39 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Two things IMO that have this team handcuffed are Gomez and Markov. One is inefficient and the other is injured. What to do with either next year I don't have a clue.

The "Markov Effect" has been evolving for over two years now. The simple fact he can't be on the ice is one thing. But there's been constant wear and tear on other d-men. It's great to have the cap room with his LTIR but what good is that when it can't be utilized. And that's my fear of some suggesting the Habs re-sign him because if he gets injured he can retire or go on LTIR. The irony is that the d-man who gets most abused on the boards is the one that's constantly trying to pick up the pieces.

Scott Gomez is just too predictable. I'm sure his lack of linemates contributes but at some point he needs to help make it work. Plekanec is running out of gas and teams are able to focus on his line.

Gomez + Markov = 13 mil. One gets his season started about 3 months later than anyone else and the other is constantly injured.

Get rid of Gomez and and get a Brad Richards type. Somebody who is isn't afraid to play a physical game.

Trade one of Cammalleri or Gionta too and replace with see above. LOL

Forget Markov unless he signs a cheap, bonus laden contract. Try to acquire more top 4 at worst d-men. Tired of the D being built around Markov with one other guy being able to play top 4 minutes and contribute offensively and defensively.

No more Gill for me. It's not his fault but by him chewing up 20 minutes a game puts more strain on the offense. Right now offense generated from the blueline is up to Wiz and Hammer who seem to be cheating more and more. Subban is saddled with Gill. And frankly Gill's PK hasn't been up to snuff either. He either ends up in the box himself or takes himself out of the play by laying down on the ice. Iginla figured that out nicely.
I totally agree with the Gomez part... I think everybody does... but Markov ?

First, we are all unhappy about his health, but we know how good Markov can be. He's a perennial all-star and true leader on the ice. Our record without him is a great proof of how important he is. You just don't let a player like him go.

You don't sign him to a long term contract but a 1-2 years whatever-he-wants contract, because you can build a defence around him. One of the reasons why it took such a "wear and tear" on our defencemen is that Gill, Hamrlik and Spacek are 35+ years old and way past their prime... a Subban can log 25min a game, not these 3... we just lack younger top 4 defencemen... espacially that we lost another one this year.

Subban is still not ready to take over the General's job... let Markov do that... anyways, if he sustains another knee injury, his career will be over and we'll have the cap space needed to find a real replacement... for now, it's important to hold on to one of our best player.

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Old
02-21-2011, 08:43 AM
  #83
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Let's see...

For the D-corpse:
  • Markov's comeback at full strenght
  • Georges' comeback at full strenght
  • 1 more year*(or more) of experience for Subban
  • Another clear cut #1-2 d-man
  • A mobile big hitter.

For the o-lines:
  • A bigger, stronger, better centerman than Gomez
  • 1 more year of experience for Max Pac
  • Another big winger for the top 6
  • Being able to use Desharnmais on the third or fourth line (not on the second)
  • At least 1 or 2 players with more size, grit and feistiness for the bottom 6.

So I think that the Habs are pretty far away of being contenders... But it doesn't mean they can't surprise good teams in the playoffs for 1 or 2 rounds.

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Old
02-21-2011, 08:45 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
I totally agree with the Gomez part... I think everybody does... but Markov ?

First, we are all unhappy about his health, but we know how good Markov can be. He's a perennial all-star and true leader on the ice. Our record without him is a great proof of how important he is. You just don't let a player like him go.

You don't sign him to a long term contract but a 1-2 years whatever-he-wants contract, because you can build a defence around him. One of the reasons why it took such a "wear and tear" on our defencemen is that Gill, Hamrlik and Spacek and 35+ years old and way past their prime... a Subban can log 25min a game, not these 3... we just lack younger top 4 defencemen... espacially that we lost another one this year.

Subban is still not ready to take over the General's job... let Markov do that... anyways, if he sustains another knee injury, his career will be over and we'll have the cap space needed to find a real replacement... for now, it's important to hold on to one of our best player.
Well I did say sign Markov to a cheap, bonus laden contract. I did say Gill should go. I didn't address Hamrlik and Spacek. It's not a bad thing to have at most a couple of veterans on the blueline so if Markov would be signed he would be one of them. And I'd re-sign the other (Hamrlik) who has been very reliable. But I don't know where that leaves Spacek. But having Hamrlik on the third pair with Weber next year would be outstanding. But if this scenario should ever happen - Markov will get injured, a couple of younger guys will also get injured and Hamrlik will end up being a number one d-man again. LOL

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Old
02-21-2011, 08:48 AM
  #85
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Only a rebuild will make this Montreal team a contender in my opinion. Team's current core is not good enough to use a base for building a championship team IMO.

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Old
02-21-2011, 08:54 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by missthenet View Post
Ribeiro, Bouillion, Robidas, Grabovski, SK, O'bryne, Dago, Halak.

What we got for these 7 players combined is 1 player playing 10 minutes a game and he has 3 goals.
I usually hate looking back since it never tells the whole story, but I admit that, presented like that, it doesn't look good.

It's hard to believe that the Habs weren't even able to have a serviceable 3th liner with grit and some fighting ability...

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02-21-2011, 09:06 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I usually hate looking back since it never tells the whole story, but I admit that, presented like that, it doesn't look good.

It's hard to believe that the Habs weren't even able to have a serviceable 3th liner with grit and some fighting ability...
Or at least some legit future considerations.....

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02-21-2011, 09:08 AM
  #88
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-A real 2nd line center to replace Gomez.
-A real top 6 forward to replace Andrei Kostitsyn (one with grit/size)
-Andrei Markov + Josh Gorges healthy
-A new coach

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02-21-2011, 09:09 AM
  #89
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We need at least one elit player in the top 15/20 year after year.

And and big scary guy who can play hockey ala Lucic

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02-21-2011, 09:14 AM
  #90
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a miracle / a lot of luck

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Old
02-21-2011, 09:33 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Pacioretty-Plekanec-XXXX
XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXX
XXXX-XXX-XXXX
White-Eller-XXXXX

Markov-Gorges
Subban-Gill
Hamrlik-Weber

Price
XXXXX
Are you suggesting that we trade Cammy and Gio? Why should we do that when they're our best and only goal scorers? Sure they're small and can get battered night after night, but they're great players that should be on our team for a long time.

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02-21-2011, 10:04 AM
  #92
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I think staying healthy would be a step in the right direction

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Old
02-21-2011, 10:23 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gionta
Gagne - Richards - Cammalleri
Pouliot - Desharnais - Langenbrunner
Eager - White - Bradley

Markov - Gorges
Pitkanen - Subban
Gill - Erskine

Price
Osgood

BOLD = UFA's this summer
I presume Gomez to Hamilton?

Either way, this to me is one hell of a sexy line up.

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Old
02-21-2011, 10:29 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gionta
Gagne - Richards - Cammalleri
Pouliot - Desharnais - Langenbrunner
Eager - White - Bradley

Markov - Gorges
Pitkanen - Subban
Gill - Erskine

Price
Osgood

BOLD = UFA's this summer
How do you propose this fits under the cap? Richards makes Gomez money, Markov will take around 5 and I wouldn't be surprised to see Pitkanen make 6+ million. Add Gagne and Langenbrunner, it just won't fit under the cap.

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Old
02-21-2011, 10:31 AM
  #95
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Failure to recognize a failure analysis? Could it be a lack of accuracy in hitting the logo instead of doing what goals' scorers do, which is picking corners?
No dude, when a player shoots the puck he can't actually aim, and it's a roll of the dice EVERY time as to where the puck will go.

Just the same, goalies actually close their yes when pucks are shot at them.

It makes it a complete random event. I swear. And if you fail to consider that, well you're FAILING AT ANALYZING.

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Old
02-21-2011, 10:48 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
No dude, when a player shoots the puck he can't actually aim, and it's a roll of the dice EVERY time as to where the puck will go.

Just the same, goalies actually close their yes when pucks are shot at them.

It makes it a complete random event. I swear. And if you fail to consider that, well you're FAILING AT ANALYZING.
You mean I can stop seeing Dr. Phil now?

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02-21-2011, 10:49 AM
  #97
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I would never draft another player under 6 feet tall, the 89 team was bigger than this midget squad.

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Old
02-21-2011, 10:55 AM
  #98
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I remember during the superbowl, they were talking about the importance of having stars at every level of the defence. I started thinking in regards to hockey and I think the Habs have potential stars in net and on D in Price and Subban. A franchise forward would be exactly what it would take for us to be true cup contenders. We have the complimentary guys in place, we just need that stud up front to take the next step.

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Old
02-21-2011, 11:07 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by mrCoffea View Post
I think staying healthy would be a step in the right direction
It's not so much the injuries but who is injured. Losing Markov for the year is not good. Losing your best sniper for an extended period is also not good.

Having the PP run at 25% would help a bit...

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Old
02-21-2011, 11:09 AM
  #100
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We have no offensive depth.

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