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Old
02-21-2011, 09:53 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Tube Sock View Post
I agree was using that package as an example since someone tried put a 3 way deal together. But you won't get Toews and Keith for Hank just don't think it happens goalies values aren't that high. Best you could probably do is something like VL + Tokarski and some picks. I don't advocate trading Hank just playing devils advocate. The problem is high end offensive talent but it's hard to get that by trading a bunch of average guys. Look the young core is nice but we're starting to see just what kind of players we have in Callahan, Dubinsky, Anisimov etc...

Those types of players are necessary and a big part of a cup winning team but they alone won't lead you to the promise land.
No you dont get Generational players for a goalie ,but you can get solid proven player /players plus high end prospect from amotivated team that has all the chips in place .Illsay it again I love Hank ,but he is not worth 6.8 M .No goalie is unless he can put up 100 pts .

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02-21-2011, 09:55 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
No you dont get Generational players for a goalie ,but you can get solid proven player /players plus high end prospect from amotivated team that has all the chips in place .Illsay it again I love Hank ,but he is not worth 6.8 M .No goalie is unless he can put up 100 pts .
Uhh what generational talent was mentioned?

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02-21-2011, 10:21 PM
  #103
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Overall, I'd stand pat. I look at it in terms of roles.

Goaltending is pretty set. It seems like we should be able to pick up whatever backups we'll need along the way.

Among forwards, we have a lot of good pieces. Several of them are still young and we have to see exactly what we've got before we should really react/trade unless we are acquiring some legit top line skill. Until then, we have to manage with our redundancy of "too many 2nd line players, not enough 1st line players" Which is our biggest weakness. I'm not as optimistic as others that Kreider is gonna be a 1st line talent; seeing him more like a very good 2nd line player which we currently have plenty of. Grachev is also a question mark. What type of player will we get out of him if any? Given our depth at LW with Dubinsky and Wolski, it's unlikely it will be a top 6 role. We have some dead weight that we just need to wait to shed or bury in the AHL.

I really like the pieces we have on defense but MDZ developing into the player we think he can be is absolutely the most important thing to happen for our blue line. We have a core of defensively solid, smart players who can make good first passes. MDZ's first pass however continues to boggle my mind. It seems like at least 50% of his first passes put the recipient into a difficult situation.

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02-22-2011, 06:49 PM
  #104
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I'll throw out another option if I was GM for a small tune up for next season . I think the money should work...depends on Drury .

We sign Wisniewski for about 4.5-5 Million as a UFA in the Summer to QB our PP , while Del Zotto evolves . He has stellar #'s this season and he has an edge to his game . I think he should be targeted more than Richards in all honesty .

Girardi + Thomas or Grachev or ? , we trade for a top 6 forward .

We trade for Carkner . He & Del Zotto should be able to handle the 5-6 spots although I would love to see DZ in the AHL for at least 1/2 year to get things back in gear without the pressure from Torts .

We sign Kariya , I know he has concussion issues ...but only if cheap...not Richard megabucks and only if ok to play . He instantly creates more offense for us with his passing and PP skills and face offs which helps Stephan & AA and a few wingers like Wolski & Zucc & Gabby . The Big Apple might appeal to Paul Kariya .

I would also move Biron ASAP because he has played well and probably has caught the eye of a GM somewhere who needs a goalie or insurance ...we must have somebody ready in the AHL to play a game or 2 ? Hank is making big bucks...he should pretty near play it out as there are many other goalies that do .

We also move Avery , Vinny P , Gilroy , EC for whatever we can get . Kreider 1/2 a year in the AHL if needed...if he signs .

This should get us into the playoffs next season . It will improve our PP /offense and make our defense tougher and more offensive . We should have more cap space the following season thus we might be able to add another good forward and still have most of our picks intact .

Feel free to add or subtract or just kick it to the curb LOL . I think it should be a fun thread / think tank . Speculating is a hard thing to do when you have to consider the cap concerns .

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Old
02-22-2011, 06:52 PM
  #105
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We've already made most of our moves to rebuild. Look at the core of this roster. Other than Lundqvist and Gaborik(who is making a case for not even being a part of the core this season) most of them are 26 and under. Now's the time to just make smart moves to add missing pieces whenever possible, regardless of the age of the player coming in.

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02-22-2011, 08:06 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
We've already made most of our moves to rebuild. Look at the core of this roster. Other than Lundqvist and Gaborik(who is making a case for not even being a part of the core this season) most of them are 26 and under. Now's the time to just make smart moves to add missing pieces whenever possible, regardless of the age of the player coming in.
The problem with "adding missing pieces" is they have to be your best players. It's one thing to add a third line center who can win face offs and kill penalties. It's another thing when the "pieces" you're missing are a first line who can score.

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02-22-2011, 08:30 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
The problem with "adding missing pieces" is they have to be your best players. It's one thing to add a third line center who can win face offs and kill penalties. It's another thing when the "pieces" you're missing are a first line who can score.
Exactly - what a wonderful "rebuild" (cant even call it that, because thats quite clearly not what this is) - all we need to do it get a #1 center and a #1 defenseman.

But whats most troubling, and an inconvenient truth for a lot of people, is that the young core is not as good as a lot of people think they are/will become.

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Old
02-24-2011, 01:52 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
No you dont get Generational players for a goalie ,but you can get solid proven player /players plus high end prospect from amotivated team that has all the chips in place .Illsay it again I love Hank ,but he is not worth 6.8 M .No goalie is unless he can put up 100 pts .
NO TEAM w/ a 6.5m goalie playing healthy for a full season will win a cup under the cap league unless they have a superstar set of 1st contract players breaking out together.

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:41 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
Overall, I'd stand pat. I look at it in terms of roles.

Goaltending is pretty set. It seems like we should be able to pick up whatever backups we'll need along the way.

Among forwards, we have a lot of good pieces. Several of them are still young and we have to see exactly what we've got before we should really react/trade unless we are acquiring some legit top line skill. Until then, we have to manage with our redundancy of "too many 2nd line players, not enough 1st line players" Which is our biggest weakness. I'm not as optimistic as others that Kreider is gonna be a 1st line talent; seeing him more like a very good 2nd line player which we currently have plenty of. Grachev is also a question mark. What type of player will we get out of him if any? Given our depth at LW with Dubinsky and Wolski, it's unlikely it will be a top 6 role. We have some dead weight that we just need to wait to shed or bury in the AHL.

I really like the pieces we have on defense but MDZ developing into the player we think he can be is absolutely the most important thing to happen for our blue line. We have a core of defensively solid, smart players who can make good first passes. MDZ's first pass however continues to boggle my mind. It seems like at least 50% of his first passes put the recipient into a difficult situation.
I seem to be agreeing with everything you are writing today...

I would just point out the need for a PP qb whether you are referring to that through the DZ comments or up front...

Agree about his passing. Its mental right now and can be fixed IMO.

A lot of things to look forward to with the subsequent growth of this team. They do need to add more skill / top end talent (like a lot of teams do) but a lot of things are in place. Restoring Gaborik to a lethal threat on a nightly basis would be another key ingredient. If McIlrath becomes a Beukeboom like presence thats even better.

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Old
02-24-2011, 02:41 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I'd like to hear which direction you guys would take this team if you had control.

Full-Rebuild?
Move everyone out under 27~ Including Henrik+Gabby

Half-Rebuild?
Move most veterans, aside for a few guys.

Quarter-Rebuild?
Move some veterans.




Tweak the Roster
Coke for Pepsi type trades.

Stay the course
What we've been doing. Low-risk signings/trades.




Shop around
Your typical Gilroy, Grachev, and a 2nd for _________ cliche hfboards proposal. Shop picks/prospects for veteran 'help'.

Buy Buy Buy!
Everyones available! Shop everyone around in hopes you can acquire a legit Star. Dubinsky, Girardi, Kreider, Mcdonagh 1st+2nd for Doughty Grachev, MZA, 2nd, 1st'11 for Richards etc. etc.


What would you do? I'm guessing 95% of you guys will say obvious things like "Buy out Drury+Avery, trade EC/Gilroy/Eminger/Feds/Prospal, sign or trade for Richards, and so on. I'm more interested in hearing some other ideas or suggestions though, to be quite honest. I guess they go hand in hand though, since salary has to likely be cleared for some additions. Would you Buy? Sell? Who would you shop around? What would you be willing to move for legit talent? What would you do with our picks? Trade up? Down?

Let's hear your suggestions. If you guys are capable of criticizing the current state of the team, then I'm sure you have the answers that'll lead to success.
This is a great thread.
I'll try to have something tasty for you soon

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Old
02-25-2011, 12:36 AM
  #111
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We have to do a quarter rebuild. Just trade guys like Prospal, Feds, Christ, Gilroy who are not in long-term plans for whatever we can get. Second rounder or a ninth rounder.

Trade Gabby if the return is right, like a blue chip prospect plus a pick in the first two rounds. Otherwise, no deal. If we cannot get another Stepan for Gabby, then don't do it.

Others should stay. They are all young, and Lundqvist is young for a goalie.

If we could get another Stepan for Gabby, another Chris Thomas for Prospal, and another Horak for Feds, I would be ecstatic.

It would likely set up our franchise for more than one Stanley Cup.

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Old
02-25-2011, 09:18 AM
  #112
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- As much as everyone is calling for Gaborik's head, I'm not the typical gut reaction type NY sports fan. I'm willing to give guys the benefit of the doubt, especially a guy like Gaborik. Let him get healthy and ready for next year, cause if I had it my way, help for him is on the way.

- I would hope Drury retires. If not, try to trade Drury to a team needs to add to their cap. Phoenix, Florida, etc, etc. They could then buy him out, and he can go where he wants. Worst comes to worst, we buy him out. Either way, he CANNOT remain on this team. I've always loved Drury, but enough is enough, time to part ways.

- If Redden is back, he will remain in Hartford. The hope is that he doesn't report, and thus is no longer in the organization.

- Resign the restricted free agents. Dubinsky, Callahan, Animisov and Boyle. They're all solid role players.

- Sign Kreider and Haglin. I'd make a point of getting these guys into the organization. I think both these guys are going to be incredibly important

- Let Prospal, Fedotenko, Eminger, Gilroy walk. We could do better in every way possible.

- Work like hell to develop MDZ and Grachev.

- Banish Christensen into the abyss. We don't need players like this in our organization.

- DO NOT GET TRAPPED BY THIS FREE AGENT CLASS!!!! Aside from one player, its not that good, which could lead to some gross overpayments. Stay away from this. Learn from the mistakes of Gomez, Drury and Redden.

That being said

- BRAD RICHARDS IS PRIORITY NUMBER 1 IN FREE AGENCY!!!! This is the center we need. This guy is a bona-fide, STUD of a playmaking center. This is the center we need for Gaborik. I truly believe those two would be putting up highlight reel plays night after night. Plus the guy is awesome on the power play, and would be a great mentor to Artem Anisimov and Derek Stepan.

So what does the team look like now?

Dubinsky - Richards - Gaborik
Wolski - Stepan - Callahan
??? - Anisimov - MZA
Boogie - Boyle - Prust
??? ???

Staal - Girardi
McD - Sauer
??? - ???
???

Now we have to look at Kreider, Haglin and maybe some Free Agents. As said, we don't want to get trapped in bad contracts, so we should be looking for value. Sign Richards ASAP, then wait it out a few weeks, and see what happens. Maybe get a guy just coming off his prime but can still contribute for a cheap one year deal. My obvious hope would be to have Kreider make the team, but theres gotta be some Plan B type guys. This is where the Emingers and Fedotenko's of the world would come back into play if they come for cheap.

I would definitely consider guys like Mark Stuart, or Shane O'Brien to add to the defense.

My idea would basically be to rebuild while competing. As said, sign some good players, to cheap, short term contracts, to give guys like Haglin, Grachv, Kreider and McIlrath the time to properly develop and eventually contribute to this team.

Also, for anyone that wants to trade Lundqvist. You should stop to think about where this team would be in the standings without him. He lets in softies from time to time, but he's a big time Goaltender in this league. You guys whining and complaining about Lundqvist, just wait till you have your season resting on the shoulders of some random scrub.

Also, the teams that can put a random goaltender in, usually have ridiculously good defenseman. The defense is too young and not talented enough to get away with that.

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Old
02-25-2011, 11:47 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Exactly - what a wonderful "rebuild" (cant even call it that, because thats quite clearly not what this is) - all we need to do it get a #1 center and a #1 defenseman.

But whats most troubling, and an inconvenient truth for a lot of people, is that the young core is not as good as a lot of people think they are/will become.
Agreed, the kids that keep saying the rebuild is 'almost complete' spend way too much time on the Xbox

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02-25-2011, 12:27 PM
  #114
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A playoff birth is a playoff birth, I don't care what you say.

I have no qualms trading a mid level prospects/picks to get a dman such as McCabe or a scorer..

Rangers are in a playoff birth and I believe are a better team than those behind us.

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Old
02-25-2011, 01:30 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
But whats most troubling, and an inconvenient truth for a lot of people, is that the young core is not as good as a lot of people think they are/will become.
I for one am someone who's always said we have a nucleus but it could go either way. But you have a magic fortunetelling ball that guarantees what prospects will and won't become? Tell me can you give me some lotto numbers too? And how good exactly do you think people think the young-ins are...and how good does a core arbitrarily have to be to win a cup. Between the multiple teams that win their divisions and make the conference finals every year there have been plenty of different team makeups. Some star centered some team centered. People gotta stop acting like they're Nostradamus and admit that although a tank for a Stamkos woulda been great it can go either way at this point. I mean c'mon with that inconvenient truth garbage it just makes you sound really high and mighty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Agreed, the kids that keep saying the rebuild is 'almost complete' spend way too much time on the Xbox
How many people say it's almost complete as if it's a fact that the rebuild is almost complete? Almost no one. Plenty of people suggest we COULD POSSIBLY have gotten it right and that we will see if it bears fruit soon. Huuuuge difference.

Dunno why you have to generalize and insult people all at once...

If you can give up prospal, EC, Avery, Feds, Boog, Gilroy for no other reason than the cap that's all I'd be looking into really. Still i have no prob with trading MDZ, AA, Sauer, Thomas, Kreider, Fasth, Hagelin, McI, Werek, a few picks if it nets a young Bobby Ryan, Stastny type of player. Obviously not all those guys in one trade but some combo of 3 plus picks. I love having great farm depth because the chances of seeing 2-4 guys succeed is so0 much higher with 15 good prospects than it is with 4...but if a young 20 something 70 -80 pt guy pops up than that far far far outweighs the value of a potential anything in our farm.

Realistically nothing like that is available far as I know and I'm not in a position to know better unless info comes to an outlet or the boards like many of us.

So I look to get rid of the "dead weight" to free up space, get a pick or so and this off season get that 80-90 pt center...only with this damn concussion issue I am now worried. The last two years all I have is a bad feeling he's an injury risk. I remember someone argueing with me about how he's not injured THAT often but every other year it seems he's got a month or two impacted by injury...although with this team it could survive without him just as we survived without gabs for a month or two.

As early as the summer I was saying I'd love to have Richards but only if he makes it through without a major injury...


Last edited by JimmyStart*: 02-25-2011 at 01:43 PM.
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Old
02-25-2011, 01:47 PM
  #116
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You're not reading enough if you think NO ONE on this board has said 'the rebuild is almost complete'. Its said here almost every week when trade proposals pop up that include someone like Stepan/Dubi/Staal/etc and when Sather apologists try to bring up this 'course' that we're on.

And those posters deserve the teasing, old guys do that to young guys since the cave days

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02-25-2011, 01:51 PM
  #117
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Quote Bluenote "You're not reading enough if you think NO ONE on this board has said 'the rebuild is almost complete'. Its said here almost every week when trade proposals pop up that include someone like Stepan/Dubi/Staal/etc and when Sather apologists try to bring up this 'course' that we're on.

And those posters deserve the teasing, old guys do that to young guys since the cave days"


K well then maybe NO ONE was too general if someone did say as a fact the rebuild is almost complete than shame shame! When I say no one I mean no one really as in not many...very few if any...that sort of "No one" I didn't mean it as a "No one 0 ever ever ever" But it's not just kids talking about rebuilds and whatnot...besides there is implied insulting in there man no need for it. it's just gonna tweak and cause problems.

Also there are a lot of jaw droppingly bad posts around trade time...man...my first real look at it. Many are within a fair range but some just fly off the handle. Real "Crosby isn't worth Dubs Cally and Roszi" type stuff


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02-25-2011, 01:51 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
A playoff birth is a playoff birth, I don't care what you say.

I have no qualms trading a mid level prospects/picks to get a dman such as McCabe or a scorer..

Rangers are in a playoff birth and I believe are a better team than those behind us.
And a 1st round exit is a 1st round exit.

Moving picks/prospects for a dman or scorer may separate us a bit from the pack behind us, but it won't do much with the numerous teams in the East that are clearly superior to us.

So why move those picks/prospects for a rental, when that rental won't make the difference we're hoping it would?

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02-25-2011, 01:57 PM
  #119
Bluenote13
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...besides there is implied insulting in there man no need for it. it's just gonna tweak and cause problems.
Its a little indirect ribbing, get over it.

I thought this was HOCKEY !!??

Come on, where are all the Avery-ites, they got my back on this one...



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02-25-2011, 02:20 PM
  #120
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No core gets moved. Nothing of value gets moved. Perimeter prospects and any ancillary players that aren't going to be kept can be moved for rentals to help get the youth to the playoffs for that experience.

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02-28-2011, 11:55 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
have you watched prospal skate lately?

and clearing 6.8 million in cap space wasted on a goalie on a team still not ready to compete for more than the 8 seed is asinine in the process trying to get some talent back . i love hank but we are many players away from being anything more than what we have been for many years . having lundqvist and we still are a 7-8-9 seed. the flyers are tops with stiffs in net but str forwards and solid d ..get it
You're a moron. And i'm glad your "Gretzky got traded" comment drove the final nail into your stupid coffin.

Another idiot that has never watched another NHL game that doesn't include tha Rangers. Hank is paid appropriately. Kick rocks, Sparky.

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02-28-2011, 11:59 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
We've already made most of our moves to rebuild. Look at the core of this roster. Other than Lundqvist and Gaborik(who is making a case for not even being a part of the core this season) most of them are 26 and under. Now's the time to just make smart moves to add missing pieces whenever possible, regardless of the age of the player coming in.
U don't add pieces at the deadline, you add rentals....ughhh.

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03-01-2011, 02:02 PM
  #123
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If I was a GM like on NHL 11 I would trade away Drury and a 1st. round draft pick + Christensen for Brad Richards... (God some of those video game trades are hilarious!)

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03-01-2011, 02:46 PM
  #124
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I think that the best course of action is to allow the youngsters that are here the opportunity to fight for the playoffs.

We want our core to grow? This is how it's done.

Let them face adversity, see how they respond to it.

Make a small deal or two to provide them with some assistance, but for the most part, leave them alone and let them fight it out until the end.

Missing the PO's will provide a great growth experience for our older core. Guys like Cally, ubi, Arty, Staal, Girardi will all learn from the experience.

Younger core guys like Stepan, McDonagh, Sauer, and MDZ will learn from the experience.

Let them make or miss the PO's on their own merits, that is how teams grow.
i didnt bother to read the whole thread

this dude gets it

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Old
03-01-2011, 10:03 PM
  #125
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You're a moron. And i'm glad your "Gretzky got traded" comment drove the final nail into your stupid coffin.

Another idiot that has never watched another NHL game that doesn't include tha Rangers. Hank is paid appropriately. Kick rocks, Sparky.
Hey genius How'd Prospal
Look tonight ? . Oh yeah and what do you know San Jose a contender every year loaded with offensive talent just re upped there Goalie who happened to win q cup ( because elite offensive talent up front and on the blue line for 4 M ) but wait we have our goalie making as much as an elite Center .

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