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Neal and Niskanen for Goligoski

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02-21-2011, 05:56 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Niskanen was gravy to me anyways, so I won't be heart broken if he doesn't pan out
Pretty much how I see it. I'm stoked about the Neal for Goligoski part. If Niskanen pans out, even better. If he doesn't, I'm sure Shero and Co. will find a way to either deal him or bury him down on our depth chart.

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02-21-2011, 05:57 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by BLACKnYELLOW66 View Post
How did Scuds get that as part of a bottom pairing? Scuderi was almost painful to watch during his first few seasons with the big club, but then ended up blossoming into one of the more respected stay-at-home d-men in the league. The orgnization merely focused on his strengths, and made him concentrate his game on doing what he did best instead of forcing him to be something he wasn't. If they can do that with Niskanen, then there's no reason to think that he couldn't turn out to be a pretty solid stay-at-home guy himself.

The fact that Niskanen is a great skater, with good hands and actually knows how to make a decent first pass makes him all the more appealing, because at least we know he has a SKILLSET that can be worked with and built upon. No one here is expecting the kid to be anywhere near as important as guys like Orpik, Letang, Martin, Michalek, but luckily they don't him to be
Because a stay at home defenseman is all Scuderi was ever going to project to, even in an optimistic scenario. It's a lot easier for that sort of player to develop getting bottom pairing minutes. Niskanen has the skill set to be a pretty solid offensive defenseman but that sort of development cycle requires power play time and more minutes to allow proper development. Niskanen doesn't have the grit or hockey sense that Scuderi did. Two totally different scenarios.

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02-21-2011, 05:57 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
That's probably the reason. I'd rather take him on than give up a draft pick along with Goligoski if we had to choose between those two scenarios.
Absolutely. I mean, LTIR for Malkin played a role here. And it helped us.

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02-21-2011, 05:57 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Malkochalek View Post
Niskanen will probably go to WBS sounds like for some reprogramming.
Heh. No.

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02-21-2011, 05:58 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
I'm assuming we had to take Niskanen to free up some money for Dallas. I'm fine with a reclaimation project. At worst, our bottom-pairing is Engelland-Lovejoy for the rest of the year and we can grab a cheap vet in FA this summer if necessary.
It's not like we're swallowing a major bullet by taking Niskanen either though. He's got the tools to work with, and there's definitely potential for him to improve as a player. In no way should we be writing him off as just a cap filler that we took off of Dallas' hands in order to land NEal.

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02-21-2011, 05:59 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by BLACKnYELLOW66 View Post
How did Scuds get that as part of a bottom pairing? Scuderi was almost painful to watch during his first few seasons with the big club, but then ended up blossoming into one of the more respected stay-at-home d-men in the league. The orgnization merely focused on his strengths, and made him concentrate his game on doing what he did best instead of forcing him to be something he wasn't. If they can do that with Niskanen, then there's no reason to think that he couldn't turn out to be a pretty solid stay-at-home guy himself.

The fact that Niskanen is a great skater, with good hands and actually knows how to make a decent first pass makes him all the more appealing, because at least we know he has a SKILLSET that can be worked with and built upon. No one here is expecting the kid to be anywhere near as important as guys like Orpik, Letang, Martin, Michalek, but luckily they don't him to be
One things for sure...for however much people want to rag on the Pens for their inability to develop scoring wingers, they sure do a helluva job developing offensive defensemen.

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02-21-2011, 06:00 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post

Players with far more talent than Niskanen have been undone by a lack of hockey sense. He most certainly is lacking in that category. Anybody who thinks he has good hockey sense hasn't seen him play in the NHL.

You do realize how old that writeup is, right? Hockeysfuture tends to write those things and then never updates them.
That's totally fair, i was just illuminating why that particular write-up and your opinion pretty much had to mutually exclusive ... i wasn't making a judgment on which one i felt was accurate.

I do think it's too early to dismiss him as someone incapable of getting his game together and becoming a good NHL player, but at the end of the day, if he doesn't, i'm still very happy with the trade.

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02-21-2011, 06:00 PM
  #383
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I am still kinda in shock, but in a good way. RS I salute you sir!

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02-21-2011, 06:00 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Heh. No.
**** I can't keep up with all these posts!

OK I wasn't thinking straight... he's on a 1-way deal I take it?

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02-21-2011, 06:01 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
Because a stay at home defenseman is all Scuderi was ever going to project to, even in an optimistic scenario. It's a lot easier for that sort of player to develop getting bottom pairing minutes. Niskanen has the skill set to be a pretty solid offensive defenseman but that sort of development cycle requires power play time and more minutes to allow proper development. Niskanen doesn't have the grit or hockey sense that Scuderi did. Two totally different scenarios.
The fact that Niskanen has regressed in the last couple of seasons might be due to the fact that the Stars were forcing him to be that offensive d-man that they needed. Perhaps though that's not what he's meant to be! Just because the guy is a great skater and good with the puck, that doesn't mean he's necessarily cut out to be another LEtang. Michalek is a strong skater and smart with the puck as well, but no one would ever suggest that he's an offensive-minded blueliner. As far as I'm concerned, if he's someone that can play steady hockey in his own end, and consistently provide a good breakout pass, then I'd be more than happy.

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02-21-2011, 06:02 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Heh. No.
Can't see him being sent to WBS.

Orpik-Letang
Martin-Michalek
Niskanen-Engelland
Lovejoy

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02-21-2011, 06:02 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Didn't necessarily mean this year. You know it is possible for us to trade future 4ths.
True, but you didn't mention that.

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02-21-2011, 06:03 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
One things for sure...for however much people want to rag on the Pens for their inability to develop scoring wingers, they sure do a helluva job developing offensive defensemen.
The team has done a great job with its blueliners in general during the post-lockout years in my opinion. Shero seems to have a good eye at spoting them out, and the coaching staff, both in Pittsburgh and down in WBS, seems to hack a good knack at developing them.

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02-21-2011, 06:04 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by BLACKnYELLOW66 View Post
With Sid back in the lineup, this team can still make a solid run, even with Geno missing. Especially if our blueline and goaltending continues to be as stellar as it has been.
No argument here, but again, this trade isn't a rental deal that would definitively suggest anyone is or isn't giving up on this year. Even if Shero thought we had no chance at a Cup this year, i think he makes this deal.

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02-21-2011, 06:04 PM
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkochalek View Post
I get it, but the report must have some relevance if it says he's pretty damn talented / skilled and you concurred just a moment ago that he is in fact very talented. He hasn't morphed into a different human being. May be as simple as a kid who was given too much responsibility too soon and has a confidence issue now.

I'd say if he really was a POS, Shero would've declined or added another swap that made the same salary difference for Dallas, most likely.
Yeah, I think we're all in agreement he has a nice skill set with a solid range of abilities.

Early on in his career, he looked quite promising when he played with Zubov. This lead to expectations for him being quite high. I mean, you had this kid with first round tools who's playing well beyond what anybody would have expected. Then Zubov gets hurt the next year and Niskanen is naturally expected to step up, assume a larger role in the defense and improve. Instead, he bombs. He put up a decent point total, primarily because he logged all of Zubov's PP time, but was dreadful in his own end. Then the next year, the offense disappeared. Then this year he managed to get even worse.

So on one hand, we have a kid with very good tools but very poor hockey sense who's regressed in a major way. He probably would have benefitted from more AHL time but that ship has long since sailed. So he'll need to try and develop as a 5th/6th defenseman. I'm skeptical that will happen but we'll see.

Looking at him as a necessary salary dump makes a lot of sense and makes me feel better about the whole thing. I just really dislike him as a defenseman, that's all. He's been embarrassingly bad for 3 years now.

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02-21-2011, 06:05 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by BLACKnYELLOW66 View Post
The fact that Niskanen has regressed in the last couple of seasons might be due to the fact that the Stars were forcing him to be that offensive d-man that they needed. Perhaps though that's not what he's meant to be! Just because the guy is a great skater and good with the puck, that doesn't mean he's necessarily cut out to be another LEtang. Michalek is a strong skater and smart with the puck as well, but no one would ever suggest that he's an offensive-minded blueliner. As far as I'm concerned, if he's someone that can play steady hockey in his own end, and consistently provide a good breakout pass, then I'd be more than happy.
Yeah and even if he cant fill that role, the organization theres guys like Strait, Bortuzzo, Despres, Sneep all waiting in the wings

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02-21-2011, 06:05 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
One things for sure...for however much people want to rag on the Pens for their inability to develop scoring wingers, they sure do a helluva job developing offensive defensemen.
Who exactly are you referring to?

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02-21-2011, 06:06 PM
  #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Jorgi View Post
That's totally fair, i was just illuminating why that particular write-up and your opinion pretty much had to mutually exclusive ... i wasn't making a judgment on which one i felt was accurate.

I do think it's too early to dismiss him as someone incapable of getting his game together and becoming a good NHL player, but at the end of the day, if he doesn't, i'm still very happy with the trade.
Oh I get you. And it's my fault, actually, because I didn't read the scouting report to see that it praised his hockey sense. I assumed it just said good tools, great skater, blah blah blah. Heh.

But I agree with you on the bottom line. We addressed a big need with a very talented young player. I'm sad to see Goligoski go because he's always been a personal favorite of mine and it's always rewarding to see a guy you believed in from day one succeed, even when most others were calling the pick crap, but you need to make sacrifices to fill needs. And in the grand scheme of the deal, Niskanen's not important.

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02-21-2011, 06:07 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by BLACKnYELLOW66 View Post
The fact that Niskanen has regressed in the last couple of seasons might be due to the fact that the Stars were forcing him to be that offensive d-man that they needed. Perhaps though that's not what he's meant to be! Just because the guy is a great skater and good with the puck, that doesn't mean he's necessarily cut out to be another LEtang. Michalek is a strong skater and smart with the puck as well, but no one would ever suggest that he's an offensive-minded blueliner. As far as I'm concerned, if he's someone that can play steady hockey in his own end, and consistently provide a good breakout pass, then I'd be more than happy.

This seems like the most likely reason for Niskanen being where he is today, considering Dallas' situation. I'm not ready to say Shero would just take a salary dump for a totally useless player at this point. I believe Shero thinks the kid has some potential and just needs work and believes the rest of our D and our system is the right mix to make that happen. We shall see. Either way we lost nothing to get him.

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02-21-2011, 06:07 PM
  #395
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Sick! Good luck in Dallas Gogo

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02-21-2011, 06:08 PM
  #396
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
Who exactly are you referring to?
Gonch, Whits, Letang, Gogs.

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02-21-2011, 06:10 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
One things for sure...for however much people want to rag on the Pens for their inability to develop scoring wingers, they sure do a helluva job developing offensive defensemen.
And knowing when to let them go at the right time.

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02-21-2011, 06:11 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Gonch, Whits, Letang, Gogs.
Just to nit-pick, Gonchar was well established as one of the best offensive D-men by the time he landed in Pittsburgh.

I agree with you, though. We've had some pretty good offensive guys develop here.

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02-21-2011, 06:11 PM
  #399
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So I imagine Niskanen will be on the 2nd PP unit with Michalek and Martin pairing up with Tanger for good now on the 1st unit? I wish Martin had a better shot but having a legit sniper now will help that PP when everyone is healthy.

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02-21-2011, 06:12 PM
  #400
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Entertaining James Neal interview!


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