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Neal and Niskanen for Goligoski

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02-23-2011, 12:32 AM
  #751
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Yes.
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Originally Posted by Aud Won View Post
I would think to get a guy like Hemsky, Gogo would have had to be in the deal. RS has already stated he doesn't want to part with a number one. In order to get a Hemsky he'd likely have to part with two number ones and a prospect.
Buzzkills.

Screw you guys. I'm gonna make the trade in NHL11.

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02-23-2011, 12:37 AM
  #752
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Buzzkills.

Screw you guys. I'm gonna make the trade in NHL11.
Apparently the Neal/Goose trade wasn't allowed as the Dallas GM wouldn't allow it and demanded more for Neal. I saw and heard that somewhere today. Maybe MM, but I did see it here somewhere also.

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02-23-2011, 12:50 AM
  #753
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I guess Goligoski really was more important than Martin, since he landed us Neal.

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02-23-2011, 01:08 AM
  #754
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Have no fear, we are getting Jagr back next year

Make the call, Mario.

Neal - Sid - Jagr
Kunitz - Staal - Malkin
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02-23-2011, 01:21 AM
  #755
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I do not know how many people got to watch the Dallas game tonight. But I made it a point to watch it. I missed part of the 1st period due to a late dinner. But caught the great majority of the game.

Dallas remained scoreless, and due to Goose not getting to practice with them and basically in game was his first time with the team other than pregame warm ups he played well. He did basically what he did here, but with big minutes. He had good passes down the ice keeping his head up and sight long. Generated chances. And used his foot speed to be able to get in placement to poke check. Nothing he did was really surprising other than I was amazed at how well he dealt with the minutes. He did not look exhausted or phased at any part in the game, I had to give him applause for that.

The PP looked awkward trying to figure him out the first few times. But the last two attempts im amazed they did not score, and one of the setups was by Alex.

He did make a few glaring mistakes but thats expected on a new team right out of the gate for a couple of games while you adjust. He pinched or crashed the net in situations that really only Pittsburgh forwards would expect or know how to react to. Other than that... Did not really make any mistakes.

He looks like he is really going to fill a missing element on that team.


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02-23-2011, 01:43 AM
  #756
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I thought Goligoski looked good, too. Unfortunately for him he ended up taking two penalties, one of which lead directly to the GWG. He'll be a nice player for the Stars, though, for sure. I don't think the trade will be looked at as lopsided as it is now in a few years.

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02-23-2011, 01:54 AM
  #757
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I thought Goligoski looked good, too. Unfortunately for him he ended up taking two penalties, one of which lead directly to the GWG. He'll be a nice player for the Stars, though, for sure. I don't think the trade will be looked at as lopsided as it is now in a few years.
I forgot about him taking that penalty. Whoops. Still it was 1-0 final and he had an overall very good game with new team.

Really I do not think it is lopsided right now. The trade came from both teams strengths to address weakness. We got two players, one that is pretty much a shoe in to be good, and a young reclamation project.

The only way I see it being lopsided is if Niskanen can return to rookie year form. If he does... Then oh holy crap... We robbed Dallas on that trade. If he doesn't then its fairly even.

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02-23-2011, 02:26 AM
  #758
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Really I do not think it is lopsided right now. The trade came from both teams strengths to address weakness. We got two players, one that is pretty much a shoe in to be good, and a young reclamation project.

The only way I see it being lopsided is if Niskanen can return to rookie year form. If he does... Then oh holy crap... We robbed Dallas on that trade. If he doesn't then its fairly even.
To be clear, I wasn't implying that I thought it was lopsided, moreso that is what the public seems to think. I certainly hope they're right, but Gogo has shown all the tools to be an excellent offensive defenseman. To me, the main question with Goligoski is this: how much room does a 25 year old player have to grow? Perhaps more importantly, will he develop the consistency required to fulfill the role that Dallas is going to ask of him? Can he handle playing big minutes in a tough division featuring the likes of Kopitar and Getzlaf? Those are big boys. Tonight Dallas put him on the top pairing with Robidas, I'd hope that's just a product of Grossman being out. He can't handle those kinds of minutes just yet.

It'll be interesting to see how it pans out from both sides - I plan on watching a lot more Stars games than usual now. Looking back on it, I don't recall having that same desire to watch more Ducks game following the Whitney trade.

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02-23-2011, 02:31 AM
  #759
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Really I do not think it is lopsided right now. The trade came from both teams strengths to address weakness. We got two players, one that is pretty much a shoe in to be good, and a young reclamation project.
agreed on this. plenty of people on the boards -- neutral fans in this instance, mostly -- like to evaluate these things in a vacuum. "Oh, a 23-year old winger who has hit already hit 25+ goals is worth this much," etc.

but trades don't happen in a vacuum. at the end of the day, the penguins can say they traded their #5 defenseman for a player who instantly becomes the best scorer on the wing. dallas can say they added a ~45-point defenseman who instantly becomes the best offensive threat on their blue line, while still maintaining a top six that (when healthy) might look something like:

benn-richards-eriksson
morrow-ribeiro-langenbrunner

obviously benn is still very young and langenbrunner is declining, but that's not too shabby at all. seriously, just a few months ago when langenbrunner's name came up as a guy the devils were going to unload, he would have represented a decent upgrade to what the pens had on the wing at the time. in dallas, he's pretty clearly the weakest link out of those six.

as for niskanen, whatever mental block has hit him this season, it seemed pretty clear it wasn't going to get fixed in dallas. remains to be seen if he can get any confidence back in pittsburgh. but clearly not much of a loss for the stars.

and none of that includes any of the speculation about the stars' financial issues, which may have been helped, however slightly, by the deal. i will say though that i was surprised that multiple national reporters (U.S. and Canada) have begun to reverse field on richards' future, saying that it's more likely for him to be traded or leave in july than previously thought.

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02-23-2011, 02:53 AM
  #760
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Originally Posted by shureshot66 View Post
agreed on this. plenty of people on the boards -- neutral fans in this instance, mostly -- like to evaluate these things in a vacuum. "Oh, a 23-year old winger who has hit already hit 25+ goals is worth this much," etc.

but trades don't happen in a vacuum. at the end of the day, the penguins can say they traded their #5 defenseman for a player who instantly becomes the best scorer on the wing. dallas can say they added a ~45-point defenseman who instantly becomes the best offensive threat on their blue line, while still maintaining a top six that (when healthy) might look something like:

benn-richards-eriksson
morrow-ribeiro-langenbrunner

obviously benn is still very young and langenbrunner is declining, but that's not too shabby at all. seriously, just a few months ago when langenbrunner's name came up as a guy the devils were going to unload, he would have represented a decent upgrade to what the pens had on the wing at the time. in dallas, he's pretty clearly the weakest link out of those six.

as for niskanen, whatever mental block has hit him this season, it seemed pretty clear it wasn't going to get fixed in dallas. remains to be seen if he can get any confidence back in pittsburgh. but clearly not much of a loss for the stars.

and none of that includes any of the speculation about the stars' financial issues, which may have been helped, however slightly, by the deal. i will say though that i was surprised that multiple national reporters (U.S. and Canada) have begun to reverse field on richards' future, saying that it's more likely for him to be traded or leave in july than previously thought.
Agreed. And looking at our defense how you looked at Dallas's forwards.

When Martin is back in the lineup we are going to have...

Letang - Orpik
Martin - Michalek
Niskanen/Engelland/Lovejoy

Goligoski's offense is going to be missed, there is no way to ignore that. But that is still far from a bad defense. We may have dropped a couple of rankings in defense in the East due to Goligoski's offense now gone, but we are without a doubt still in the top 10 defenses in the East.

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02-23-2011, 03:24 AM
  #761
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Agreed. And looking at our defense how you looked at Dallas's forwards.

When Martin is back in the lineup we are going to have...

Letang - Orpik
Martin - Michalek
Niskanen/Engelland/Lovejoy

Goligoski's offense is going to be missed, there is no way to ignore that. But that is still far from a bad defense. We may have dropped a couple of rankings in defense in the East due to Goligoski's offense now gone, but we are without a doubt still in the top 10 defenses in the East.
I actually believe this trade will look even more lopsided as the years transpire in Pittsburgh's favor. Defensively we shouldn't drop at all as in that capacity Goose wasn't anything to write home about. And his offensive production will be cancelled out and superseded by the new arrivals and in particular Neal.

So offensively we upgraded and defensively we really aren't any worse for the wear.

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02-23-2011, 04:21 AM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Aud Won View Post
I actually believe this trade will look even more lopsided as the years transpire in Pittsburgh's favor. Defensively we shouldn't drop at all as in that capacity Goose wasn't anything to write home about. And his offensive production will be cancelled out and superseded by the new arrivals and in particular Neal.

So offensively we upgraded and defensively we really aren't any worse for the wear.
His offense WILL be missed because it's from the backend. Less movers on defense does not get cancelled out because some offense up front. What Gogo can do offensivly, and his pass and all the things he does that makes him as good as he is now or can be in the future Neal does not do the exact same thing because they are different players in different roles. It's not just about scoring goals, it's about those little things that can help lead to the goal. I'm not gonna complain bout the trade because this can potentially be a huge rip off of a trade if Niskanen can go back to playing the offensive game he used to play, and Neal becomes a 40 goal scorrer even if Gogo becomes a 50 point dman which he could very well become in Dallas. Right now i'd say Pens win the trade but not by much because Niskanen is a low risk high reward project. If Pens get a winger in the off season i'd say the only thing we would be missing would be more offense from the backend because losing Gogo and what he brings is a pretty big blow even if we did get Neal and a project in Niskanen. Our biggest hole would be a PPQB, although it helps having the players we have now but not completly.




Maybe i have not let the trade sink in and i was all about trading Gogo for a winger in the past but now that Gogo is gone i feel as if it was not a good idea. It was because we needed the winger help pretty bad but it creates another hole because sure we have a pretty damn good D but we don't have another GoGo on this team. But i'm friggin glad we got James ****in NEAL on this team for years to come! it's also 230 in the morning and i'm tired....


Last edited by 66-29-33: 02-23-2011 at 04:29 AM.
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02-23-2011, 04:30 AM
  #763
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His offense WILL be missed because it's from the backend. Less movers on defense does not get cancelled out because some offense up front. What Gogo can do offensivly, and his pass and all the things he does that makes him as good as he is now or can be in the future Neal does not do the exact same thing because they are different players in different roles. It's not just about scoring goals, it's about those little things that can help lead to the goal. I'm not gonna complain bout the trade because this can potentially be a huge rip off of a trade if Niskanen can go back to playing the offensive game he used to play, and Neal becomes a 40 goal scorrer even if Gogo becomes a 50 point dman which he could very well become in Dallas. Right now i'd say Pens win the trade but not by much because Niskanen is a low risk high reward project. If Pens get a winger in the off season i'd say the only thing we would be missing would be more offense from the backend because losing Gogo and what he brings is a pretty big blow even if we did get Neal and a project in Niskanen. Our biggest hole would be a PPQB, although it helps having the players we have now but not completly.
First off I agree with most of your post. In regards to goose's offensive prowess I don't believe it will be all that missed because Neal's production in my estimation will be more prevalent. So while you subtract a little bit of offense from the rear guard position, we gain far more upfront. And our transition game should still be pretty good with the guys we already have. And that doesn't even take into account what Niskanen can do. By all accounts he's offensively inclined. He's not Gogo but he's not bad as far as passing the puck.

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02-23-2011, 04:34 AM
  #764
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First off I agree with most of your post. In regards to goose's offensive prowess I don't believe it will be all that missed because Neal's production in my estimation will be more prevalent. So while you subtract a little bit of offense from the rear guard position, we gain far more upfront. And our transition game should still be pretty good with the guys we already have. And that doesn't even take into account what Niskanen can do. By all accounts he's offensively inclined. He's not Gogo but he's not bad as far as passing the puck.
Well, all i'm saying is his offense may be replaced on the score sheet his offense from the backend can't be replaced by Neal and what he does because they play different positions and they bring different things to the table but hey, it's a capped NHL and you can't have a perfect team. Even the Flyers have their weakness...goaltending. As much as it is good right now, once the game matters they have nothing to prove they can make it with bob.


But anyway, Gogo is pretty damn underrated to HFBoards but that is because he was a Penguin where nobody is good because Crosby and Malkin play here....

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02-23-2011, 04:42 AM
  #765
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Well, all i'm saying is his offense may be replaced on the score sheet his offense from the backend can't be replaced by Neal and what he does because they play different positions and they bring different things to the table but hey, it's a capped NHL and you can't have a perfect team. Even the Flyers have their weakness...goaltending. As much as it is good right now, once the game matters they have nothing to prove they can make it with bob.


But anyway, Gogo is pretty damn underrated to HFBoards but that is because he was a Penguin where nobody is good because Crosby and Malkin play here....
I think a big variable here is Martin and/or Niskanen. If either one can be a productive guy on the PP that will really nullify Gogo leaving. I think they have the ability to be productive, but of course they are gonna have to prove it consistently. Although even with Gogo we struggled with the man advantage. I would think that between the two of them one will emerge as a decent guy on the PP. Let's hope so any how.

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02-23-2011, 08:38 AM
  #766
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Apparently the Neal/Goose trade wasn't allowed as the Dallas GM wouldn't allow it and demanded more for Neal. I saw and heard that somewhere today. Maybe MM, but I did see it here somewhere also.
I offered Gogo, Kulemin and 3 first round picks for just Neal and the mutherf**ker still said no.

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02-23-2011, 08:44 AM
  #767
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If Dallas has/had any intention of keeping Brad Richards (I think he's a goner on July 1 at the latest), then why on Earth would you want to break up one of the best lines in the NHL?

Trading Neal is going to haunt them for a while, imo.

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02-23-2011, 08:58 AM
  #768
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Ugh, that's almost as ****ing ugly as seeing Malone in a Tampa uniform. 3 years later, that still bothers me.

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02-23-2011, 09:03 AM
  #769
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If Dallas has/had any intention of keeping Brad Richards (I think he's a goner on July 1 at the latest), then why on Earth would you want to break up one of the best lines in the NHL?

Trading Neal is going to haunt them for a while, imo.
because freeing up 2.5 million will make it easier to re-sign Richards.

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02-23-2011, 09:21 AM
  #770
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I watched the DAL game too because Goligoski is one of my favorite players. He looked nervous going against Kovalchuk and took a penalty on him . He also got out of position on another Kovy rush. But I believe that any dman that isnt used to going up against the top players regularly will get nervous and I think with some experience he hell get to a place where he feels ok playing against the best in the world.

While true that he took another penalty which lead to the gw goal, it was a 1-0 game and the penalty was high sticking. Meh.

Offensively, he looked really, really smooth. His transition passes were beautiful considering how he has no experience with Dallas. One of his tape to tape passes sent Ott on a break away and nearly resulted in a goal. In another instance, he did a surprise quick pass to Ribeiro during a line change which lead to a two on one. He got a few quality shots that lead to scoring opportunities too.

Also, I dont know if anybody talked to him before the game or if he just figures this is going to be his role, but he was trying to jump into the play more than he normally does. On the power play he was moving down the side a la ovechkin a lot

All things considered, I think it was a prettty good debut for no 33

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02-23-2011, 10:14 AM
  #771
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I can't even imagine the nerves Goligoski was feeling. He just got traded for the first time, he was in a new locker room, he had no morning skate, he was thrown on the 1st pair and 1st powerplay, he was going against Kovalchuk, and some people in that arena felt like they got fleeced for him, which makes expectations even higher.

Unenviable position to say the least.

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02-23-2011, 10:16 AM
  #772
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because freeing up 2.5 million will make it easier to re-sign Richards.
And I'm sure Brad is just giddy at the thought of doing that now, without his main left-winger.

Riiight.

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02-23-2011, 10:19 AM
  #773
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Apparently the Neal/Goose trade wasn't allowed as the Dallas GM wouldn't allow it and demanded more for Neal. I saw and heard that somewhere today. Maybe MM, but I did see it here somewhere also.

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02-23-2011, 10:20 AM
  #774
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And I'm sure Brad is just giddy at the thought of doing that now, without his main left-winger.

Riiight.
Morrow, Benn, Eriksson. He's hardly playing with scraps.

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02-23-2011, 10:26 AM
  #775
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Don't forget Glennie next year.

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