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Old
02-20-2011, 09:03 PM
  #1
Dark Knight
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Toronto - Edmonton



Ales Hemsky



1st '11 (choice between PHI or BOS 1st)
Tyler Bozak
Jake Gardiner

Why Toronto does this?

Signed to a contract for next season, Ales Hemsky (if healthy) gives Toronto a very capable top 6 forward who is a great PP guy. With the loss of Tomas Kaberle, Toronto severely lacks play makers on PP, and Hemsky would be a very good one. He provides scoring depth that Toronto lacks as well. Watching Toronto's PP against Ottawa last night was horrific, and I believe, more than a big, gritty winger, this team needs a catalyst on the PP. Special teams have been down in the dumps since the lockout and we need to fill that void ASAP.

Why Edmonton does this?

This is a pretty big price to pay from Toronto's perspective. Edmonton, rebuilding will likely require a 1st round pick coming back, and taking Toronto's (BOS or PHI) 1st rounder won't be as different as, say Kings' or Penguins'. On top of that Toronto sends a pretty good prospect who projects as a top 4 defenseman, and a player who can play right away for Edmonton in Tyler Bozak (who has potential to be a top 6 forward on top of that).

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:14 PM
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Like Hemsky, value is probably good, Toronto might overpay a bit.

Id like burke to use a trade like this for a centre though.

Putting Lupul on the 3rd line at 4.25 isnt the best idea.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:18 PM
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Eh.

I'd rather keep Hemsky.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:20 PM
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The asking price for Hemsky is huge, reportedly. This is not huge.

We'd be better off keeping Hemsky.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:24 PM
  #5
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I'd rather keep Hemsky if that would be an offer. A 1st in a weak draft, AHL caliber player and a decent prospect wont land you Hemsky.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:25 PM
  #6
victor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Fuss View Post


Ales Hemsky



1st '11 (choice between PHI or BOS 1st)
Tyler Bozak
Jake Gardiner

Why Toronto does this?

Signed to a contract for next season, Ales Hemsky (if healthy) gives Toronto a very capable top 6 forward who is a great PP guy. With the loss of Tomas Kaberle, Toronto severely lacks play makers on PP, and Hemsky would be a very good one. He provides scoring depth that Toronto lacks as well. Watching Toronto's PP against Ottawa last night was horrific, and I believe, more than a big, gritty winger, this team needs a catalyst on the PP. Special teams have been down in the dumps since the lockout and we need to fill that void ASAP.

Why Edmonton does this?

This is a pretty big price to pay from Toronto's perspective. Edmonton, rebuilding will likely require a 1st round pick coming back, and taking Toronto's (BOS or PHI) 1st rounder won't be as different as, say Kings' or Penguins'. On top of that Toronto sends a pretty good prospect who projects as a top 4 defenseman, and a player who can play right away for Edmonton in Tyler Bozak (who has potential to be a top 6 forward on top of that).
Bozak is 3.725m RFA, with 20 points this season. At best, an RFA, who will cost a fair amount of real salary. Not going to be re-qualified, so I think it's nice to say, he's not worth anything.

Jake Gardiner is a 20 year old 6'2" PMD, with 13 points in 41 games for Wisconsin. I can't see Edmonton having any interest in him (on a team with Petry, Chorney, Gilbert, and Whitney, already. Petry makes him redundant, at best.)

Then, looking at the upcoming (weak) draft, and picking a player like Boone Jenner, when Edmonton already will be drafting 30-33?

Bozak (no value,) Gardiner (not needed) and a low first round in a weak draft year? Personally, I'd keep Hemsky. The 60 points he's likely to get next year are better than the value of the players returning.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:25 PM
  #7
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Another team can probably offer more which would be Edmonton's reason for saying no, since they are in no rush. Similar to us holding out on Kaberle.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor View Post
Bozak is 3.725m RFA, with 20 points this season. At best, an RFA, who will cost a fair amount of real salary. Not going to be re-qualified, so I think it's nice to say, he's not worth anything.

Jake Gardiner is a 20 year old 6'2" PMD, with 13 points in 41 games for Wisconsin.
I can't see Edmonton having any interest in him (on a team with Petry, Chorney, Gilbert, and Whitney, already. Petry makes him redundant, at best.)

Then, looking at the upcoming (weak) draft, and picking a player like Boone Jenner, when Edmonton already will be drafting 30-33?

Bozak (no value,) Gardiner (not needed) and a low first round in a weak draft year? Personally, I'd keep Hemsky. The 60 points he's likely to get next year are better than the value of the players returning.

Last season...

Gardiner has 35 points in 34 games this season with Wisconsin

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:30 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Vladimir Tarasenko View Post
Last season...

Gardiner has 35 points in 34 games this season with Wisconsin
Does that really alter his value?

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor View Post
Bozak is 3.725m RFA, with 20 points this season. At best, an RFA, who will cost a fair amount of real salary. Not going to be re-qualified, so I think it's nice to say, he's not worth anything.

Jake Gardiner is a 20 year old 6'2" PMD, with 13 points in 41 games for Wisconsin. I can't see Edmonton having any interest in him (on a team with Petry, Chorney, Gilbert, and Whitney, already. Petry makes him redundant, at best.)

Then, looking at the upcoming (weak) draft, and picking a player like Boone Jenner, when Edmonton already will be drafting 30-33?

Bozak (no value,) Gardiner (not needed) and a low first round in a weak draft year? Personally, I'd keep Hemsky. The 60 points he's likely to get next year are better than the value of the players returning.
Bozak's salary is 875k, he'll be re-qualified easily.

Gardiner is a ppg dman in the ncaa.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:31 PM
  #11
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So even with Both picks that's not going to get it done.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:33 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by victor View Post
Does that really alter his value?
seemed to affect his value when he was scoring @15 points

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by victor View Post
Does that really alter his value?
Yes.....it actually does. Pretty substantially. His stats are reflecting his progression.

If he had 3 points in 30 games would it alter his value?

Assuming that was a serious question, I can't believe I just read that. I'm not exaggerating.... Counting proposals, that could be one of the dumbest statements/questions that I have ever read on HF...

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:34 PM
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Wouldn't make sense for Toronto to trade for Hemsky

And I'd imagine EDM would want more valuable pieces for Hemsky (Picks + High end prospects) which Toronto shouldn't really be trading away in their current state, especially any high end prospects that they may have.

Also the Leafs biggest issue is the lack of a #1 center, not another RW. If the leafs are looking to trade young assets, they will be either getting a #1 center back or a puck mover.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by victor View Post
Does that really alter his value?
Not at all
13 points in 41 games is very similar to 35 in 34.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:37 PM
  #16
victor
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Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
Bozak's salary is 875k, he'll be re-qualified easily.

Gardiner is a ppg dman in the ncaa.
Good - I hope Toronto requalifies him. Personally, event at 875k, I can't see him re-qualified.

Gardiner likely has more value to the Leafs than he would to Edmonton. I'd suggest you keep him.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:37 PM
  #17
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Oilers say no. The only assets that TO has that of any interest to the Oilers are Kadri and Grabovski (and possibly Schenn however I am not a fan of his game)...and I doubt TO would be willing to move any for Hemsky so I'd think it's out of the question that Hemsky goes to Toronto.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:41 PM
  #18
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The value is not too far off, but quite frankly we are not looking for loose change to make a dollar. Hemsky will be traded for a blue chip Centre or Defenseman prospect, or else as part of a package for a young multidimensional top 6 centre or 2nd pairing dman with upside.

I'd do something along the lines of Hemsky+(Smid) for Schenn+picks

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Fuss View Post


Ales Hemsky



1st '11 (choice between PHI or BOS 1st)
Tyler Bozak
Jake Gardiner

Why Toronto does this?

Signed to a contract for next season, Ales Hemsky (if healthy) gives Toronto a very capable top 6 forward who is a great PP guy. With the loss of Tomas Kaberle, Toronto severely lacks play makers on PP, and Hemsky would be a very good one. He provides scoring depth that Toronto lacks as well. Watching Toronto's PP against Ottawa last night was horrific, and I believe, more than a big, gritty winger, this team needs a catalyst on the PP. Special teams have been down in the dumps since the lockout and we need to fill that void ASAP.

Why Edmonton does this?

This is a pretty big price to pay from Toronto's perspective. Edmonton, rebuilding will likely require a 1st round pick coming back, and taking Toronto's (BOS or PHI) 1st rounder won't be as different as, say Kings' or Penguins'. On top of that Toronto sends a pretty good prospect who projects as a top 4 defenseman, and a player who can play right away for Edmonton in Tyler Bozak (who has potential to be a top 6 forward on top of that).

so a Late round 1st round pick(both BB and Philly's pick will be near the bottom) Tyler Bozak who has been MIA for 20 games in TO and who gets how much a year? Jake Gardiner a good d-man who is about 3 years away from the NHL. Leafs can keep Bozak and his contract. But for a late round first rounder and d man(who I do like but is 3 years away from being ready for the NHL--Oilers pass--Jake Gardiner could be a top 4 d-man if he is not rushed into the NHL or he could be a bottom pair d-man

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:49 PM
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Toronto already has its fill of undersized/non-physical impact perimeter wingers in Kessel, Lupul and C-Mac for its top 2 lines. Then we also have Kadri coming up at some point next season.

Hemsky although very talented is not what Toronto needs. We need a big physical winger who can provide screens or a 1st line center (or at the very least a 2nd line calibar center to go with a 3 line approach).

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:51 PM
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hemsky doesn't really fit the leafs now or the future tbh, i'd give up that package to draft 5-10th if it was possible though, but i'd rather give bozak another year, because he's already amazing defensively, if he can get back his offense like he had in his 1st year next year, then he'd be great 2nd line center or a 3rd line center on a cup contender. bozak is gonna be part of the core imo, and gardiner is a bit of a unknown commidity, I have no clue what kind of game he plays and if wiercioch can put ppg in the ncaa and not be an amazing prospect right now, then i'd be cautious of gardiner if I was a gm.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:56 PM
  #22
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I won't mind adding a 2nd to this deal if Edmonton fans wish.

The fact is that every year people say the upcoming draft isn't as deep in talent, but talented prospects still emerge. This year's draft supposedly has a weak top 10, but the depth is there.

The fact that Hemsky has another year on his deal makes me willing to include the 2nd as well. He's a difference maker when healthy, and Toronto needs a top 6 forward, rather than to rely on Brad Richards to sign with us, which is possible, but far from a sure thing.

Toronto should cover its back via trade beforehand, and UFA is free-for-all anyway.

Gardiner
Bozak
1st '11
2nd '11

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:58 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Fuss View Post
I won't mind adding a 2nd to this deal if Edmonton fans wish.

The fact is that every year people say the upcoming draft isn't as deep in talent, but talented prospects still emerge. This year's draft supposedly has a weak top 10, but the depth is there.

The fact that Hemsky has another year on his deal makes me willing to include the 2nd as well. He's a difference maker when healthy, and Toronto needs a top 6 forward, rather than to rely on Brad Richards to sign with us, which is possible, but far from a sure thing.

Toronto should cover its back via trade beforehand, and UFA is free-for-all anyway.

Gardiner
Bozak
1st '11
2nd '11
replace Bozak with the other first

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Old
02-20-2011, 10:00 PM
  #24
Dark Knight
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replace Bozak with the other first
Trust me, you'd rather have Bozak. He's a solid 3rd line C anyway, and displaying very strong two-way ability. He's got potential to score. It's evident. This year might just be a infamous sophomore slump.

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Old
02-20-2011, 10:01 PM
  #25
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Toronto's need for a winger is a guy with size, not a playmaker.

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