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Old
02-22-2011, 02:16 PM
  #226
DIEHARD the King fan
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I believe in DL and am a huge supporter, but in the next 12 months, he needs to find a legitimate 40 goal guy, likely a 2nd line centre and probably a few solid veterans for depth/bolster the lower lines and D.
1) a legitimate 40 goal guy;
2) a 2nd line centre ; AND
3) a few solid veterans for depth/bolster the lower lines and D


I would advise not holding your breath on ALL those things occuring, considering the number of rookies we have coming through the system.
Best we can hope for is a 30 goal scorer, and we will be LUCKY indeed if that happens.

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02-22-2011, 02:21 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
1) a legitimate 40 goal guy;
2) a 2nd line centre ; AND
3) a few solid veterans for depth/bolster the lower lines and D


I would advise not holding your breath on ALL those things occuring, considering the number of rookies we have coming through the system.
Best we can hope for is a 30 goal scorer, and we will be LUCKY indeed if that happens.
The only way we need a 2nd line centre is if Schenn can't handle that duty next year. If he, or Loktionov for that matter, can, then it's likely a moot point.

In terms of veterans, I'm talking about the deadline pickups, very similar to a Jeff Halpern. I'm not defending that trade, but using it as a point of reference, guys you think fill a need, can provide leadership and depth, play on the 3rd/4th line/3rd D-pairing and don't cost you any core pieces. Those are DL type deals anyways, so I expect we'll do those. It's the quest for a legitimate sniper that I'm watching with interest.

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02-22-2011, 02:39 PM
  #228
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Guys it as much about the mdssage as it us the acquisition. If the organizationag message from the top down is "we can wait" then how is anyone below supposed to drive forward full steam ahead?

The pens and hawks both made deals or signings that told everyone to win the cup. Lombardi yaks so much about culture, well at some joint the message needs to cone fro him, in the form of a signing or a trade, that the kings are done waiting to win and are ready to do it already.

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02-22-2011, 03:07 PM
  #229
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The only way we need a 2nd line centre is if Schenn can't handle that duty next year. If he, or Loktionov for that matter, can, then it's likely a moot point.

In terms of veterans, I'm talking about the deadline pickups, very similar to a Jeff Halpern. I'm not defending that trade, but using it as a point of reference, guys you think fill a need, can provide leadership and depth, play on the 3rd/4th line/3rd D-pairing and don't cost you any core pieces. Those are DL type deals anyways, so I expect we'll do those. It's the quest for a legitimate sniper that I'm watching with interest.
I hope it ends better than this quest:


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02-22-2011, 03:11 PM
  #230
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Guys it as much about the mdssage as it us the acquisition. If the organizationag message from the top down is "we can wait" then how is anyone below supposed to drive forward full steam ahead?

The pens and hawks both made deals or signings that told everyone to win the cup. Lombardi yaks so much about culture, well at some joint the message needs to cone fro him, in the form of a signing or a trade, that the kings are done waiting to win and are ready to do it already.
Reminder: We live in America. The boss is NEVER accountable to his underlings.

You want help? No, no help for you. Just get better, work harder and make me look better and get richer.

Its all the players fault.

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Old
02-22-2011, 03:15 PM
  #231
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Really guys?



Stoll is a stop gap signed for 1 more season after this.

Handzus will walk this offseason and Stoll will slide down to 3rd line C and Schenn will take over the 2nd line C duties.

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02-22-2011, 03:35 PM
  #232
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I finally just read the Helene article in full and... you guys need to chill out.

Reading this thread I figured she spent the whole article lambasting Lombardi when in reality, there are a total of 4 sentences that even have to do with him. The article dissects the trades that have gone down and makes three quick snide comments about Lombardi yet this thread makes it seem that Helene went on a rant about how Dean sucks. Yeesh, people are so touchy.

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02-22-2011, 04:03 PM
  #233
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I finally just read the Helene article in full and... you guys need to chill out.

Reading this thread I figured she spent the whole article lambasting Lombardi when in reality, there are a total of 4 sentences that even have to do with him. The article dissects the trades that have gone down and makes three quick snide comments about Lombardi yet this thread makes it seem that Helene went on a rant about how Dean sucks. Yeesh, people are so touchy.
According to some, thats all she ever does. But in realtion to the Kings, without ever reading a single one of her pieces you could guess that she took someone in management to task every time, and you would only be wrong 1 in 10 times.

Fact is winners make it happen, while losers wait and hope that "something will come up."

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02-22-2011, 04:21 PM
  #234
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Really guys?



Stoll is a stop gap signed for 1 more season after this.

Handzus will walk this offseason and Stoll will slide down to 3rd line C and Schenn will take over the 2nd line C duties.
If Stoll is just a stop gap, what are Kopitar and Brown? (especially Kopitar - at his salary)

Without Stoll's shootout success, goal scoring and faceoffs, this team would be in much worse shape.

Stoll's 3.4m is chump change for what he brings to this team.

And Schenn will take over the 2nd line C next year?? I'll believe it when I see it.

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02-22-2011, 04:52 PM
  #235
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I finally just read the Helene article in full and... you guys need to chill out.

Reading this thread I figured she spent the whole article lambasting Lombardi when in reality, there are a total of 4 sentences that even have to do with him. The article dissects the trades that have gone down and makes three quick snide comments about Lombardi yet this thread makes it seem that Helene went on a rant about how Dean sucks. Yeesh, people are so touchy.
To me, it seems like she's been digging, digging, digging at DL for weeks trying to figure out what he's going to do at the deadline, he's been cryptic or unresponsive, and she's taking that as meaning that he's not doing his due diligence. I, for one, welcome some level of secrecy in GM/media relations. I hate what Burke does in Toronto, putting so much of the attention on himself by publicly announcing trade interests, but that's the way some guys do it. DL does not. We know this. He's lied to Rich about impending deals countless times and we very rarely get anything specific from him other than big picture ideas. I think that's fine, but for Helene to get quippy before the deadline has even passed, while the team is coming off their best run in franchise history, it just doesn't make sense. She's just picking up a pitchfork and joining the mob, as far as I can tell.

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02-22-2011, 04:55 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
If Stoll is just a stop gap, what are Kopitar and Brown? (especially Kopitar - at his salary)

Without Stoll's shootout success, goal scoring and faceoffs, this team would be in much worse shape.

Stoll's 3.4m is chump change for what he brings to this team.

And Schenn will take over the 2nd line C next year?? I'll believe it when I see it.
Kopitar is in the top 10 in NHL scoring for centers

Stoll is struggling to put 20g and 50p. I like Stoll, a lot, but if this team is to improve that is the #2 position behind first line LW

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Old
02-22-2011, 05:09 PM
  #237
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To me, it seems like she's been digging, digging, digging at DL for weeks trying to figure out what he's going to do at the deadline, he's been cryptic or unresponsive, and she's taking that as meaning that he's not doing his due diligence. I, for one, welcome some level of secrecy in GM/media relations. I hate what Burke does in Toronto, putting so much of the attention on himself by publicly announcing trade interests, but that's the way some guys do it. DL does not. We know this. He's lied to Rich about impending deals countless times and we very rarely get anything specific from him other than big picture ideas. I think that's fine, but for Helene to get quippy before the deadline has even passed, while the team is coming off their best run in franchise history, it just doesn't make sense. She's just picking up a pitchfork and joining the mob, as far as I can tell.
Pal, if only you knew. Helene is no latecomer to the party. She didnt just join the mob, she's out in front of it. So much so that people in management dontthink she can write anything positive. She has been critical of the Kings for ages, and some small part of it may come from how the organ-eye-zation treated and still treats her. (Sorry boys, no details)

But to attack her for having her opinion, AND THE FORUM in which to spread it, (which is her job, mind you) is like blaming the cop for arresting your drunk friiend who just caused an accident with injuries. It sucks that he got busted, but whose fault is it? Helene doesnt imply anything. No, she comes right out with her opinion and hits you over the head, Tony Granato style. Some people like it. Others attack the messenger because they don't like the message.

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02-22-2011, 05:15 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
I think that's fine, but for Helene to get quippy before the deadline has even passed, while the team is coming off their best run in franchise history, it just doesn't make sense. She's just picking up a pitchfork and joining the mob, as far as I can tell.
... Well it was certainly ONE of the best 11-game runs the franchise has ever had, and I don't think there would be much support given to Helene's comments on here if that streak didn't come off of one of the WORST runs in franchise history. Over the last 24 games, the Kings' record is 10-11-3 - hardly the stuff of legend.

Unfortunately, all the 11-game unbeaten streak did was avert total disaster. The Kings have used up almost all of their margin for error this season if they're still looking at making the playoffs.

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Old
02-22-2011, 07:34 PM
  #239
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In Lombardi I trust!

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02-22-2011, 08:06 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Pal, if only you knew. Helene is no latecomer to the party. She didnt just join the mob, she's out in front of it. So much so that people in management dontthink she can write anything positive. She has been critical of the Kings for ages, and some small part of it may come from how the organ-eye-zation treated and still treats her. (Sorry boys, no details)

But to attack her for having her opinion, AND THE FORUM in which to spread it, (which is her job, mind you) is like blaming the cop for arresting your drunk friiend who just caused an accident with injuries. It sucks that he got busted, but whose fault is it? Helene doesnt imply anything. No, she comes right out with her opinion and hits you over the head, Tony Granato style. Some people like it. Others attack the messenger because they don't like the message.
And her opinion is still valid. The Kings have never won anything, Lombardi has never won anything, until that changes they will be critqued and the people doing that will probably be right. The people attacking the messenger will probably be wrong but they are wrong so often nobody can keep track. Plenty of Dave Taylor supporters are now Dean Lombardi supporters and have completely forgotten how wrong they were. And before I get attacked I fully support building from within, I fully support developing players slowly and I do not want to see Braydon Schenn traded! And no I wont go root for another team.

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02-22-2011, 08:08 PM
  #241
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If we don't make any trades involving centers, next year it'll be

Kopitar
Stoll
Loktionov
Lewis

Schenn in AHL except if he wows everyone in training camp/preseason and then puts up points in his tryout phase in the start of the season.

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Old
02-22-2011, 08:43 PM
  #242
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And her opinion is still valid. The Kings have never won anything, Lombardi has never won anything, until that changes they will be critqued and the people doing that will probably be right. The people attacking the messenger will probably be wrong but they are wrong so often nobody can keep track. Plenty of Dave Taylor supporters are now Dean Lombardi supporters and have completely forgotten how wrong they were. And before I get attacked I fully support building from within, I fully support developing players slowly and I do not want to see Braydon Schenn traded! And no I wont go root for another team.
Her opinion is absolutely valid, I just don't think it's the right medium to express it, though I suppose, as some people said above, that she has gotten where she is by trying to grab the bull by the horns from time to time.

My main gripe is that nowhere in the article does it say "Opinion" or "Op Ed" or "This article is the opinion of." It's a Lombardi flame disguised as a trade deadline article. The last few paragraphs? That's what the piece should be throughout. Take the first part and call it an editorial, and I'm a happier camper.

And for what it's worth, I was absolutely against most of the moves DT made, especially towards the end of his tenure here. I was upset when DL traded Purcell last season, but other than that, I can't complain too much about most of his moves. He turned Pavol Demitra (how's he doing these days?) into Lewis, who's just starting to play to his potential, and O'Sullivan (how's he doing these days?), who he turned into one our top right winger, Williams. He turned Gleason, who'd be in our second or third pairing right now, and Belanger, who'd be our fourth line center, into Jack Johnson, who's arguably been our best defenseman this year. He turned Kyle Quincey, a waiver pickup who'd probably be in our middle pairing, into our best left winger, Smyth.

The good trades he's made have been really good. The bad trades he's made have not been crippling. I would rather have a GM that's overly patient than one who ****s the bed with terrible trades that set our organization back. We're lucky that Tambellini and Grebeshkov didn't pan out, otherwise those deals would have looked much, much worse in retrospect.

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Old
02-22-2011, 08:56 PM
  #243
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And for what it's worth, I was absolutely against most of the moves DT made, especially towards the end of his tenure here. I was upset when DL traded Purcell last season, but other than that, I can't complain too much about most of his moves. He turned Pavol Demitra (how's he doing these days?) into Lewis, who's just starting to play to his potential, and O'Sullivan (how's he doing these days?), who he turned into one our top right winger, Williams. He turned Gleason, who'd be in our second or third pairing right now, and Belanger, who'd be our fourth line center, into Jack Johnson, who's arguably been our best defenseman this year. He turned Kyle Quincey, a waiver pickup who'd probably be in our middle pairing, into our best left winger, Smyth.

The good trades he's made have been really good. The bad trades he's made have not been crippling. I would rather have a GM that's overly patient than one who ****s the bed with terrible trades that set our organization back. We're lucky that Tambellini and Grebeshkov didn't pan out, otherwise those deals would have looked much, much worse in retrospect.
Trading Cammalleri hasn't been crippling?
Letting Moulson walk without even making an offer isn't crippling?
Signing a bunch of stiffs and injured players for huge dollars (like Blake, McCauley, etc) wasn't crippling?

Talk to me when DL and company actually accomplish something - make sure that you let me know when that "potential" banner goes up

Oh, that's right - it was all part of the 15 year plan

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02-22-2011, 09:30 PM
  #244
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Trading Cammalleri hasn't been crippling?
Letting Moulson walk without even making an offer isn't crippling?
Signing a bunch of stiffs and injured players for huge dollars (like Blake, McCauley, etc) wasn't crippling?

Talk to me when DL and company actually accomplish something - make sure that you let me know when that "potential" banner goes up
Oh, that's right - it was all part of the 15 year plan
The cammy crowd needs to realize that he was never going to sign with the Kings long term and was very likely to bolt anyway.

It's not as if the Kings have been winning prior to Dean showing up. We've got a division banner hanging up in the rafters, from 1993. Whoopteedoo...and Dean deserves credit for changing the culture of the Kings. You aren't going to change 40 years of sucktitude overnight or even in a couple years. Deans got us going in the right direction...

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02-22-2011, 09:35 PM
  #245
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I hope it ends better than this quest:

Greatest quest ever, but I likely would have just stayed at the castle Anthrax

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02-22-2011, 09:42 PM
  #246
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The cammy crowd needs to realize that he was never going to sign with the Kings long term and was very likely to bolt anyway.

It's not as if the Kings have been winning prior to Dean showing up. We've got a division banner hanging up in the rafters, from 1993. Whoopteedoo...and Dean deserves credit for changing the culture of the Kings. You aren't going to change 40 years of sucktitude overnight or even in a couple years. Deans got us going in the right direction...
Go back and check the posts here on what most of the posters expected Cammalleri to get - it was MUCH more than he got. He has proven that it was personal with DL and not a matter of performance.

FWIW, the Division banner is from 90/91, not 93

Don't talk to me about opinion or perceived gains - I'm only interested in RESULTS. This isn't a self-esteem league - nobody cares if you are doing it the right way if you haven't accomplished crap in the real world.

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02-22-2011, 10:18 PM
  #247
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Trading Cammalleri hasn't been crippling?
Letting Moulson walk without even making an offer isn't crippling?
Signing a bunch of stiffs and injured players for huge dollars (like Blake, McCauley, etc) wasn't crippling?

Talk to me when DL and company actually accomplish something - make sure that you let me know when that "potential" banner goes up

Oh, that's right - it was all part of the 15 year plan
Cammalleri, from my view, was waiting for his opportunity to leave, especially after things got heated in the arbitration proceedings. There's a reason that not only was he beyond ecstatic to be going to Calgary and play in a hockey market, he decided to sign with Montreal afterwards. He wasn't chasing big bucks so much as big lights. I would've liked to keep Cammi, but he's not the first player to go chasing the spotlight or the first player to have his relations with a GM go sour in arbitration.

Moulson? Don't forget that the only reason we had him was because the Penguins let him walk. In his sophomore year and his first with the Kings, he had nine points in 22 games. The next year, he had one point in seven. He couldn't stick on a roster that was icing Calder, Willsie, Giuliano, Scott Thornton, etc on a consistent basis. As far as I'm concerned, Moulson had his shot in LA and blew it. He was 25 when we let him go and was waiver eligible the next season. If he didn't make the Kings out of camp, they would have waived him anyway, and the way he played here, I'm not sure that he would've. Good for him for turning things around with top six ice time on a struggling team, but if that's what it would have taken to get him going, I'm not sure that he ever would've broken out in LA.

Blake, Macauley, etc were what they were: stopgaps. I don't think anyone, DL in particular, pretended otherwise. Blake and Roenick, in particular, were out of shape when they played here and didn't take the team's success very seriously. That's no fault of DL's and has everything to do with character.

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02-22-2011, 10:21 PM
  #248
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I agree with your second point.

To your first point I am not so certain it matters as much as you imply but instead of defending my position I give you something to think about "Aint nothin gonna break my stride, nobody gonna hold me down, oh no, I got to keep on movin".

I am going to take my opinion and get some sleep before hitting the road in the AM.

Aint no wrong now aint no right
THIS is a good example of why I have nothing but love for you.

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02-22-2011, 10:25 PM
  #249
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Way to take that post way out of context and spin it the way you wanted to see it. I was using the asking price of Hemsky as an example. Are you willing to give up Schenn and a 1st for a right winger, something the Kings don't even need? Would you be willing to give up Johnson for Neal? How about, lets say, Johnson, Loktionov, and a conditional 1st for Stewart, Shattenkirk, and a conditional 2nd?
This reminds me of did you stop beating your wife questions. You are using a strawman that it would cost what you claim it would cost to get these players. You have no idea and if you look at the market of what Neal went for, it is NOT Johnson for Neal. It is closer to Martinez, a solid prospect like Lokti, Moller, etc. and a 1st if you want equal value compared to where he was sent. Ask me if I would do that? Don't ask. **** yeah.

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02-22-2011, 10:27 PM
  #250
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The cammy crowd needs to realize that he was never going to sign with the Kings long term and was very likely to bolt anyway.

It's not as if the Kings have been winning prior to Dean showing up. We've got a division banner hanging up in the rafters, from 1993. Whoopteedoo...and Dean deserves credit for changing the culture of the Kings. You aren't going to change 40 years of sucktitude overnight or even in a couple years. Deans got us going in the right direction...
This is total fiction. Cammy at no point said he wanted to leave. Cammy at no point directly or indirectly indicated he would not leave if offered a fair contract. This was a Dean not liking Cammy issue, not Cammy wanting $6 million or he bolts issue. The Cammy haters are weaving their position out of whole cloth.

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