From scouting reports and what i have been reading. I haven't seen any report wich puts zibanejad ahead armia. Zibanejad's stock have been rising recently but not near armia yet. Armia plays in 1st line in team which are 2nd in FEL and he is best scorer of that team. Zibanejad is more versatile tho but Armia bring much more offensive abilities than Zibanejad.
Here how i see it now Armia's upside( max potential ) 1st line NHL winger who scores 40-45 goals and 70-75points per season.
Zibanejad's upside is between 2nd 3rd line player with solid 2 way play and 40-50 points per season.
Zibanejad isn't bad prospect but i see him going from 20 to early 2nd round maybe even under 20. I see Armia going top 15.
From scouting reports and what i have been reading. I haven't seen any report wich puts zibanejad ahead armia. Zibanejad's stock have been rising recently but not near armia yet. Armia plays in 1st line in team which are 2nd in FEL and he is best scorer of that team. Zibanejad is more versatile tho but Armia bring much more offensive abilities than Zibanejad.
Here how i see it now Armia's upside( max potential ) 1st line NHL winger who scores 40-45 goals and 70-75points per season.
Zibanejad's upside is between 2nd 3rd line player with solid 2 way play and 40-50 points per season.
Zibanejad isn't bad prospect but i see him going from 20 to early 2nd round maybe even under 20. I see Armia going top 15.
It's simply ridiculous to judge a prospect from scouting reports and make claims about their upside. Don't get me wrong, Armia seems like a quality prospect, but what you wrote about Zibanejad means nothing.. especially since he's really been stepping things up lately so your scouting reports are probably outdated, heh.
So he's a 6'2 center taking legitimate minutes at 17 in the SEL and his upside is set at 2nd or 3rd line player?
Zibanejad is in the middle of emerging...if he's at 8-15 come draft time on lists it's pretty obvious that his upside didn't just change over 2-3 months...it's that increased exposure and attention made people realize he is in the same realm as the other 1st line type prospects.
It's simply ridiculous to judge a prospect from scouting reports and make claims about their upside.
Agree. Here are tons of Canadians who just put him mid first only reading scouting reports and watching highlight reel hit & his first Elitserien goal. Is it ridiculous?
Don't get me wrong. I like this kid, see my post #10. But a 15minutes of fame doesn't make him the next Ryan Getzlaf. I take expample: Armia. After called to the first line he putted a goal per game pace for couple of games. IIRC he was ranked 6th in a ISS scouting report. It was his 15 minutes of fame. After that he dropped to mid first round keeping his ~0.5 goals per game. That's reality.
If we don's see Zibanejad flipping more 18-year old D-men over boards he is gonna fall. I'm just trying to be realistic. There is really HUGE group of players ranked from midfirst to late second. Zibanejad could be there but I don't see Zibanejad cracking to first row of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence
So he's a 6'2 center taking legitimate minutes at 17 in the SEL and his upside is set at 2nd or 3rd line player?
Here is one Mike Richards sized powerforward taking legimate minutes at 17 in the FEL. He have much more points than Zibanejad. The guy scored 2+1 in 4 games at WJC. But no one cares. Someone predicted his upside as 3rd line player. I don't get it.
This guy is Miikka Salomäki. He have own thread. Only Finnish posters there. The guy plays with his heart and guts in the most phlegmatic team in Finland. He doesn't try to drive on net, he is there.
I'm not sure what I'm trying to say... Maybe Swedish prospects are sexier than Finnish prospects.
Last edited by The Saw Is the Law: 02-22-2011 at 04:15 PM.
As he has been playing lately, I would call the talk of Zibanejad having a third-line grinder upside absolute and utter nonsense. It´s a bit early to tell but this could be a real star on the rise. It´s not like he get a random assist now and then, playing sheltered minutes on a fourth line. He gets a lot of icetime right now, and have been a impact player for Djurgården the last few games.
The comparison with Järnkrok is a bit off. Zibanejad is big and physical, Järnkrok still is a bit on the small side and needs to put on weight. Järnkrok is a lateborn and this is his last year as a junior, Zibanejad still have two more seasons as a junior left after this one. Järnrok is a playmaker (that can score), Zibanejad is more of a powerforward with great hands and good speed which is not so easy to come by.
I haven´t watched Armia enough to compare, but it strikes me as odd that he isn´t ranked higher with that kind of production in FEL at that age (+excellent size). It probably has to do with that finnish prospects is a bit underrated right now. Finland needs some young kids that scores a lot of points in NHL to pave the way for other finns to be picked high and/or be picked at all.
Last edited by cheerupmurray: 02-22-2011 at 04:18 PM.
Agree. Here are tons of Canadians who just put him mid first only reading scouting reports and watching highlight reel hit & his first Elitserien goal. Is it ridiculous?
Don't get me wrong. I like this kid, see my post #10. But a 15minutes of fame doesn't make him the next Ryan Getzlaf. I take expample: Armia. After called to the first line he putted a goal per game pace for couple of games. IIRC he was ranked 6th in a ISS scouting report. It was his 15 minutes of fame. After that he dropped to mid first round keeping his ~0.5 goals per game. That's reality.
If we don's see Zibanejad flipping more 18-year old D-men over boards he is gonna fall. I'm just trying to be realistic. There is really HUGE group of players ranked from midfirst to late second. Zibanejad could be there but I don't see Zibanejad cracking to first row of them.
Here is one Mike Richards sized powerforward taking legimate minutes at 17 in the FEL. He have much more points than Zibanejad. The guy scored 2+1 in 4 games at WJC. But no one cares. Someone predicted his upside as 3rd line player. I don't get it.
This guy is Miikka Salomäki. He have own thread. Only Finnish posters there. The guy plays with his heart and guts in the most phlegmatic team in Finland. He doesn't try to drive on net, he is there.
I'm not sure what I'm trying to say... Maybe Swedish prospects are sexier than Finnish prospects.
Salomäki has 4 more points in 10 more games played. Much more...?
You're right though, it's hard to figure out what you're trying to say. From what I can tell, you seem a little hurt that other people aren't rating your favorite prospects so you want to bring other players down.
Newsflash. It has nothing to do with Zibanejad. Who by the way is awesome.
Agree. Here are tons of Canadians who just put him mid first only reading scouting reports and watching highlight reel hit & his first Elitserien goal. Is it ridiculous?
Don't get me wrong. I like this kid, see my post #10. But a 15minutes of fame doesn't make him the next Ryan Getzlaf. I take expample: Armia. After called to the first line he putted a goal per game pace for couple of games. IIRC he was ranked 6th in a ISS scouting report. It was his 15 minutes of fame. After that he dropped to mid first round keeping his ~0.5 goals per game. That's reality.
If we don's see Zibanejad flipping more 18-year old D-men over boards he is gonna fall. I'm just trying to be realistic. There is really HUGE group of players ranked from midfirst to late second. Zibanejad could be there but I don't see Zibanejad cracking to first row of them.
I don't really have any trouble with people posting mock drafts and trying to predict the draft - I enjoy reading those actually. My gripe was that someone who admitted to never having seen Zibanejad play, would post something as specific as:
Quote:
Zibanejad's upside is between 2nd 3rd line player with solid 2 way play and 40-50 points per season.
As he has been playing lately, I would call the talk of Zibanejad having a third-line grinder upside absolute and utter nonsense. It´s a bit early to tell but this could be a real star on the rise. It´s not like he get a random assist now and then, playing sheltered minutes on a fourth line. He gets a lot of icetime right now, and have been a impact player for Djurgården the last few games.
The comparison with Järnkrok is a bit off. Zibanejad is big and physical, Järnkrok still is a bit on the small side and needs to put on weight. Järnkrok is a lateborn and this is his last year as a junior, Zibanejad still have two more seasons as a junior left after this one. Järnrok is a playmaker (that can score), Zibanejad is more of a powerforward with great hands and good speed which is not so easy to come by.
In all honestly the assessment is quite fair, he's not a great scorer or dangler, his biggest assets are his speed and a great built body for the NHL. At worst I see him as a third line grinder with good offensive skills, but he has potential to become one of the best two-way centres in the NHL, for example a better and speedier version of Ryan Kesler.
But before we jump the gun here I think a solid comparison to recent drafted Swedes is Carl Klingberg. Klingberg went 34th in 2009, Zibanejad is as fast/faster, better built, more skilled, and much further in his development then Klingberg was when he was drafted. Ranking Zimbanejad outside the top 20 is ludicrous.
In all honestly the assessment is quite fair, he's not a great scorer or dangler, his biggest assets are his speed and a great built body for the NHL. At worst I see him as a third line grinder with good offensive skills, but he has potential to become one of the best two-way centres in the NHL, for example a better and speedier version of Ryan Kesler.
But before we jump the gun here I think a solid comparison to recent drafted Swedes is Carl Klingberg. Klingberg went 34th in 2009, Zibanejad is as fast/faster, better built, more skilled, and much further in his development then Klingberg was when he was drafted. Ranking Zimbanejad outside the top 20 is ludicrous.
How much NHL do you watch...not to derail this thread, but Ryan Kesler is extremely fast, is 2nd in the NHL in goals, and has been nominated for the Selke trophy (best defensive forward 2 years straight - and will likely run away with it this year).
Maybe you mean a better, speedier Pahlsson??? Because that entire post is a joke!
In all honestly the assessment is quite fair, he's not a great scorer or dangler, his biggest assets are his speed and a great built body for the NHL. At worst I see him as a third line grinder with good offensive skills, but he has potential to become one of the best two-way centres in the NHL, for example a better and speedier version of Ryan Kesler.
But before we jump the gun here I think a solid comparison to recent drafted Swedes is Carl Klingberg. Klingberg went 34th in 2009, Zibanejad is as fast/faster, better built, more skilled, and much further in his development then Klingberg was when he was drafted. Ranking Zimbanejad outside the top 20 is ludicrous.
Kesler is one of the best 2way players in NHL if not best and one of the fastest. Zibanejad haven't proved much production tho. To be one of the best two way players in NHL you need to score points aswell. Zibanejad's offensive production have been really slow to a top prospect. If he proves he could produce more he would be higher. I know he brings alot other aspect's aswell but i see his offensive production is limited unless he proves something else.
How much NHL do you watch...not to derail this thread, but Ryan Kesler is extremely fast, is 2nd in the NHL in goals, and has been nominated for the Selke trophy (best defensive forward 2 years straight - and will likely run away with it this year).
Maybe you mean a better, speedier Pahlsson??? Because that entire post is a joke!
What he said...though he might have said it in a bit nicer way haha. Kesler is probably a top 10 skater in the nhl, not just speed but power. However I would like to point out that Kesler was a late first rounder who brought speed and all the intangibles but had questions about his offensive abilities...sounds eerily similar to Zibanejad
How much NHL do you watch...not to derail this thread, but Ryan Kesler is extremely fast, is 2nd in the NHL in goals, and has been nominated for the Selke trophy (best defensive forward 2 years straight - and will likely run away with it this year).
Maybe you mean a better, speedier Pahlsson??? Because that entire post is a joke!
Yes, I do believe Zibanejad's potential upside is a player like Ryan Kesler. Would be foolish to pick him outside the top 10 IMO.
Yes, I do believe Zibanejad's potential upside is a player like Ryan Kesler. Would be foolish to pick him outside the top 10 IMO.
If he has good offensive talent why his numbers isn't so impressive? He struggle to produce at junior level. With higher production he would be lock for top 15 maybe top 10. I am really excited to see him U-18 WC. He has chance to drag himself up to top 10-15 with great performance.
If he has good offensive talent why his numbers isn't so impressive? He struggle to produce at junior level. With higher production he would be lock for top 15 maybe top 10. I am really excited to see him U-18 WC. He has chance to drag himself up to top 10-15 with great performance.
First of all I said the exact opposite, his biggest asset isn't his offensive game. And besides, for a player his age he is producing very respectable numbers.
Yes, I do believe Zibanejad's potential upside is a player like Ryan Kesler. Would be foolish to pick him outside the top 10 IMO.
My biggest issue with your first post, was that you said
Quote:
potential to become one of the best two-way centres in the NHL, for example a better and speedier version of Ryan Kesler.
Ryan Kesler is a premier skater, like another poster already said.
Not to mention that when you haven't proved a thing, you cannot be considered a "better version"...of an NHL all-star, multiple time Selke Trophy nominee who is currently 2nd in the NHL in goals.
If Zibanejad projects to be better than that, why is he not mentioned in the top 5???
