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2 Firsts for Weiss.

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Old
02-22-2011, 01:27 PM
  #101
ULF_55
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
He's a good piece moving forward, he doesn't have to be the focal point for a cup winner, he could easily be a 2nd line center or used as trade bait to fill a hole when the team looks like a contender. We have some hope down the middle with Kadri and Colborne as well.
I'd rather take those two 1st. and add to them and land a 1st. line center.

Who that is I don't know, that's Burke's job, but I get the Stajan impression about Weiss. Not saying he is a bad player, but I think there is as big a risk about him stepping up as there is about one of the picks turning out.

He'll be 28 this year, so he isn't old, but he's only under contract for 2 more years. So we expect to be contenders for the Cup in 2013?

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Old
02-22-2011, 01:28 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by MoreMogilny View Post
We have Grabovski. He is a very good piece to have as a second line center. Why spend the kind of necessary assets on Weiss if he is only coming in to be a slight upgrade to Grabo? The Leafs should not be looking at acquiring guys like Weiss who aren't capable of anchoring the top line of a contending team.
I'm not convinced Grabovski's a better option than Weiss. Grabo's play has been eratic with the Leafs, this is really the first year he's look good for a long period and even then I wonder if his game translates well to a winning team. Having too many good centers is always a better option than not having enough as well.

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02-22-2011, 01:30 PM
  #103
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Why am I looking specifically between 20 and 40th? If we just go by 25th and lower, the 1996 draft yielded Briere, Kaberle, Chara, Parrish, Kubina, Rozsival, Bulis, Dackell, Lydman, Colin White, etc. A lot of these names are no better than Stephen Weiss, but the more picks you have, the better the chance you find a player that can be useful to you. It just depends on the work your scouts do, and the development work your organization puts into these kids. It's not all blind luck.

And even IF they're not players in the long run, they still hold value as prospects for a few years, so they can be moved, like we saw Joe Colborne traded 3 years after being drafted for an all-star defenseman.

To me, stockpiling for a potentially winning team a few years down the line is probably more important than adding another mediocre piece like Weiss. We got Clarke MacArthur for free, no need to pay a premium for a guy who isn't even better than that and is older and way more expensive.
Absolutely

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02-22-2011, 01:31 PM
  #104
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This draft isn't as bad as the '99 draft. There's definitely more than one impact player that will be drafted between 20-40. Prolly 5 or 6.
To be honest besides Landeskog and Larson it's a real possibility that no one in this draft might ever become an NHL player.

I would trade those picks for a developed prospect or a good player.

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02-22-2011, 01:31 PM
  #105
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I'd pass on Weiss. If were going to trade those two 1st round picks it should be for a true #1 Centre, and we can add to it.

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02-22-2011, 01:32 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I'd rather take those two 1st. and add to them and land a 1st. line center.

Who that is I don't know, that's Burke's job, but I get the Stajan impression about Weiss. Not saying he is a bad player, but I think there is as big a risk about him stepping up as there is about one of the picks turning out.

He'll be 28 this year, so he isn't old, but he's only under contract for 2 more years. So we expect to be contenders for the Cup in 2013?
That 1st line center isn't a lock, infact it's an extreme longshot. Aside from the 2003 draft, which this is definitely not, how many legitimate, cup contending calibre first line centers have been picked in the range we expect our 1st to be?

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02-22-2011, 01:32 PM
  #107
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What is with this weak draft argument? Even in the worst drafts in the past 30 years, in 1996 and 1999, someone walked away with some serious talent. If the scouting staff is there and you trust the work they did with the McKegg type picks, we should be letting them do their work instead of adding another piece that is no better in quality than what we already have.

Let me put it this way:

Kris Versteeg got us a 1st and a 3rd. He is 24, got 37 points in 57 games this season with 15 goals.

Stephen Weiss is suddenly worth twice as much as Versteeg? The guy is 27, has 16 goals and a whopping 3 more points in 58 games.


Further add to the fact that Stephen Weiss wouldn't know how to win a meaningful hockey game to save his life, I'm not sure why we want him.
Weiss had 28 goals and 60 points in 80 games last season.

Florida did trade away Horton and Ballard and other vets to draft rebuild this season so the Team is not as strong as it was previously.

Why not compare him to Kessel who had 30 goals and 55 points in 70 games last season and Kessel has 22-17-39 points (-1 point) then Weiss has this season?.

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02-22-2011, 01:33 PM
  #108
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I would rather take Booth over Weiss, Weiss is nice but booth here would be huge

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02-22-2011, 01:34 PM
  #109
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Being from Toronto doesn't mean he wants or has to play for the Maple Leafs.

Awful logic.

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02-22-2011, 01:34 PM
  #110
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I wouldn't trade away picks, sure they may not make it to the NHL but in the long run your 1st round pick is where you'll get your star. Sort of like fishing eventually you'll catch one.

Not all surefire draftees pan out and sometimes there are surprises. You never know so you have to pick.
Good call.

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02-22-2011, 01:36 PM
  #111
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How can you be sure that either of them is going to be ready next year? That's what I meant.
You can't be so sure that they won't either.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind having Weiss. He would improve our depth at center and would give us 2 legit # 2's and another who still has the potential to be a number 2(still believe in Bozak) with 2 other prospects who have the ptential to be #1-2's. And if our other prospects step up then it would give the Leafs good trading options for the future to fill other needs. I just wouldn't feel comfortable giving up 2 firsts for him even if they are later round picks in a weak draft. You never know when it comes to young players.

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Old
02-22-2011, 01:38 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Weiss had 28 goals and 60 points in 80 games last season.

Florida did trade away Horton and Ballard and other vets to draft rebuild this season so the Team is not as strong as it was previously.

Why not compare him to Kessel who had 30 goals and 55 points in 70 games last season and Kessel has 22-17-39 points (-1 point) then Weiss has this season?.
Kessel is also 5 years younger. Weiss is a classic case of Florida crap.

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02-22-2011, 01:38 PM
  #113
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Two firsts for a 1B forward? I like the sound of this!

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02-22-2011, 01:39 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
I'm not convinced Grabovski's a better option than Weiss. Grabo's play has been eratic with the Leafs, this is really the first year he's look good for a long period and even then I wonder if his game translates well to a winning team. Having too many good centers is always a better option than not having enough as well.
I'm not saying that Grabovski is a better option than Weiss. What i am saying though, is that we already have Grabo, and would it really make sense to go out and get Weiss if he isn't going to be the guy down the middle? If we already have a capable second line center in Grabovski, what is the point of bringing in Weiss? Wouldn't it be a better option to either keep the 1st round picks, which are always good assets to have, or go get someone who is undoubtedly a top line guy?

I would rather the Leafs spend more, in order to get more, instead of bringing in someone who will likely never be the guy the Leafs are looking for to solve their center woes.

Sure it is nice to have good center depth. That is actually very important to successful teams, but the Leafs already have Grabovski, with Colborne and Kadri waiting in the wings. The objective should be, like i said, a real top line guy.

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02-22-2011, 01:39 PM
  #115
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Say "No" to Stephen Weiss.

Keep the picks, let your scouts earn their money, continue to develop your prospects. You don't make a deal and move assets unless you are getting a bonafide top line pivot- that's not Weiss.

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02-22-2011, 01:39 PM
  #116
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Kessel is also 5 years younger. Weiss is a classic case of Florida crap.
like Jokinen and Bouwmeester?

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02-22-2011, 01:41 PM
  #117
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So would Weiss be the player to take the Leafs to the Cup as a 1st. line center?

Sure the picks are gambles and Weiss is not, but I don't see him elevating his game to top notch 1st. liner whereas the picks might.

Some people look to be in a hurray to get back to being mediocre.
Agreed, you'll never know what the picks can turn out to be. One 1st and a 4th for Weiss is okay, two 1st is overpayment. Also, if Bozak gets out of his 2nd year funk next year, then we're obviously better with the picks.

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02-22-2011, 01:44 PM
  #118
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I'd rather take those two 1st. and add to them and land a 1st. line center.

Who that is I don't know, that's Burke's job, but I get the Stajan impression about Weiss. Not saying he is a bad player, but I think there is as big a risk about him stepping up as there is about one of the picks turning out.

He'll be 28 this year, so he isn't old, but he's only under contract for 2 more years. So we expect to be contenders for the Cup in 2013?
Yes if Burke makes the right moves we can expect to be serious contenders in 2013.

Kadri, Gardiner, Colborne and Blacker will all still be on there ELCs and should be making an impact with the team which we need to take advantage of. They might not be Kane and Toews from last years playoffs but there is no reason they couldn't have the kind of impact guys like Ladd, Buff and Hjalmarsson had in there playoff run.

Kessel, Kulemin, Phaneuf, Schenn will all be in there primes.

We have great depth with cheap young goalies in Reimer, Rynnas and Scrivens. All have showed very good promise. We just need one of them to be good at that time.

And we have lots of cap space at the moment.

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Old
02-22-2011, 01:47 PM
  #119
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no way, thank you.

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02-22-2011, 01:47 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
like Jokinen and Bouwmeester?
Yup.

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02-22-2011, 01:49 PM
  #121
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If we acquire Weiss we suddenly have some organizational depth at center. The center spot and our goaltending has been what has killed this team the last two years.

Adding Weiss would allow us to trade C-Mac to recoup some of the lost picks.

C-Mac has been a great addition for us but Kadri or Colborne could take his spot next year. Or we could fill his spot with a UFA which there are options for at wing. At center there is literally no options besides Richards (who is a pipe dream) and Connolly who is as fragile as they come.

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02-22-2011, 01:51 PM
  #122
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Weiss for 2 firsts!? Overpayment by the Leafs by far. Why do we want an elbow throwing, unproven, small centre when burke clearly likes his power forwards.. it makes no sense. "Weiss is from Toronto, its a perfect match." Give me a break, we need better players that are also preferably younger.

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02-22-2011, 01:56 PM
  #123
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like Jokinen and Bouwmeester?
Yeah, and add Horton, Olesz, Frolik, Shvidki, Van Ryn, Valeri Bure, etc. Yuck.

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02-22-2011, 01:57 PM
  #124
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If we acquire Weiss we suddenly have some organizational depth at center. The center spot and our goaltending has been what has killed this team the last two years.

Adding Weiss would allow us to trade C-Mac to recoup some of the lost picks.

C-Mac has been a great addition for us but Kadri or Colborne could take his spot next year. Or we could fill his spot with a UFA which there are options for at wing. At center there is literally no options besides Richards (who is a pipe dream) and Connolly who is as fragile as they come.
Talking about fragile, did you see how Gaborik got his latest concussion? Felt bad for the guy.

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Old
02-22-2011, 01:57 PM
  #125
Ricky Bobby
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Why am I looking specifically between 20 and 40th? If we just go by 25th and lower, the 1996 draft yielded Briere, Kaberle, Chara, Parrish, Kubina, Rozsival, Bulis, Dackell, Lydman, Colin White, etc. A lot of these names are no better than Stephen Weiss, but the more picks you have, the better the chance you find a player that can be useful to you. It just depends on the work your scouts do, and the development work your organization puts into these kids. It's not all blind luck.

And even IF they're not players in the long run, they still hold value as prospects for a few years, so they can be moved, like we saw Joe Colborne traded 3 years after being drafted for an all-star defenseman.

To me, stockpiling for a potentially winning team a few years down the line is probably more important than adding another mediocre piece like Weiss. We got Clarke MacArthur for free, no need to pay a premium for a guy who isn't even better than that and is older and way more expensive.
So pretty much we need to hope that eventually a draft pick turns out to be successful. Only 4 of the guys you mentioned were legitimate top 2 line/top 2 pairing players. And that is out of a lot of draft picks.

Meanwhile you have a guy who is a very good 2nd line center/low end 1st liner center on a cheap contract which allows for other moves. Sure we can all dream about someone like Statsny. But he would cost us more than 2 low 1st round picks in a bad draft and would take up a lot of our cap room. Getting someone like Weiss with a cap hit of 3.1 would allow us to sign someone like Laich at 4. And also allow us to trade C-Mac to recoup some of those draft picks.

C-Mac is expendable to this team in the long run if he wants anything more than 2.5.

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