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02-21-2011, 08:05 AM
  #1
Habs4ever
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The Great Habs Management Thread!!

So, I see every bandwagon fan is jumping each game the team fails to perform, and I understand this fans very well; but lets get real people.

We have not traded away any big assets for how many years now? We complaint that we don't make big splash on trade deadline then again our team made it to conference final last year without trading for any big name; Our team is built on hard work, and beating the odds, and we have consistently done that.

Playoffs are another story, and we have done better then most team in the league, and winning a cup is in no way as probable as before so I fail to see why fans rate team on not winning with 30 teams it will be in low probability anyways.

I like that our management is not panicking like leafs and jumping ships almost every year, and we are getting playoffs what else do you want? The season is long and getting to playoff should be the objective, and then let to dice fall where they may, as we saw last year anything could happen there.

Why do fans waste so much energy thinking about getting physical player, elite player, or anything else when the final objective is the Cup; I don't mind how they win, as long as they keep making playoffs and beating the odds I am a good and happy hab fans.

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02-21-2011, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Habs4ever View Post
So, I see every bandwagon fan is jumping each game the team fails to perform, and I understand this fans very well; but lets get real people.

We have not traded away any big assets for how many years now? We complaint that we don't make big splash on trade deadline then again our team made it to conference final last year without trading for any big name; Our team is built on hard work, and beating the odds, and we have consistently done that.

Playoffs are another story, and we have done better then most team in the league, and winning a cup is in no way as probable as before so I fail to see why fans rate team on not winning with 30 teams it will be in low probability anyways.

I like that our management is not panicking like leafs and jumping ships almost every year, and we are getting playoffs what else do you want? The season is long and getting to playoff should be the objective, and then let to dice fall where they may, as we saw last year anything could happen there.

Why do fans waste so much energy thinking about getting physical player, elite player, or anything else when the final objective is the Cup; I don't mind how they win, as long as they keep making playoffs and beating the odds I am a good and happy hab fans.
People want physical players because physical players are required in the playoffs especially. You're not going to win with small, soft players, period! People want elite talent because everyone wants that. I don't really care about elite players. I do want good, consistent players though..and save for 3-4 guys, the rest are either OK, poor, and/or inconsistent.

As far as wasting energy, I don't think you should question fans for being passionate. Being a Hab fan is almost maniacal passion. That's just how it is...I won't blame people for reacting after tough stretches. Look at Yankee fans...Cowboys fans...Lakers fans...they do the same thing...and that usually happens with fans who have a rich tradition of WINNING! The expectations are much higher...so you shouldn't compare the Habs to the Panthers or Rangers or Huricanes. Our expectations are higher!

Management hasn't panicked, you're right, but they've made some pretty bone-headed decisions too. Perhaps they should panic more often. Who's to say this team wouldn't be better if they "panicked" and overpaid for that big winger, or that big centerman. Gainey has tried to go for the big players (Hossa, Lecavalier, etc) but what I find generally, is the Habs just aren't willing to go all in...which is why they tend to lose out on the bigger players. I don't have an issue with that though.

Getting to the playoffs is the objective for poor teams. Winning the cup is the objective for good/elite teams. Seems like the Habs management have the same expectations as you do which would make sense since this team continues to fight for a playoff spot year in and year out.

Don't you think it's time, instead of hoping for miracle runs, to make good calculated moves to get a top seed in the playoffs and ice a good team that SHOULD rather than COULD do damage in the playoffs?

The 'offs are a different game, but this team right now...has not shown me anything to think that they'll win a series, let alone make the playoffs.

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02-21-2011, 08:42 AM
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We have consistently beaten the odds?
----------------------

What I`'m hearing from you is that you're okay being mediocre.

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02-21-2011, 09:27 AM
  #4
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As of this morning, the Habs are 1 point out of the top 10 NHL teams.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?type=lea#&navid=nav-stn-league

Let's be realistic here...

NHL PARITY.................. Its here Enjoy it

Without Markov, this is not the team management assembled.

ps. Heritage classic sucked

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02-21-2011, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
As of this morning, the Habs are 1 point out of the top 10 NHL teams.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?type=lea#&navid=nav-stn-league

Let's be realistic here...

NHL PARITY.................. Its here Enjoy it

Without Markov, this is not the team management assembled.

ps. Heritage classic sucked
And you can't depend on Markov or any player to always be here forever. Markov has been injured and continues to be injured. You don't base your season around one player, you need to have a backup plan.

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02-21-2011, 09:40 AM
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And you can't depend on Markov or any player to always be here forever. Markov has been injured and continues to be injured. You don't base your season around one player, you need to have a backup plan.
Thats all fine and dandy, but the Habs have done pretty well without Markov. You could file this complaint if the Habs clearly going nowere fast without him, but it hasn't been the case this year and last year. The point of ''we miss Markov, we'd be a much better team with him'' is simply that adding a top10 elite defensemen (arguably top5) would make the team, guess it : MUCH BETTER.

Habs are doing pretty well without their superstar, lots of teams crashed and burned in similar circumstances. Not targeting you specifically because I don't know your opinion on this but I find it very hypocritical of some folk to beg for superstars yet claim injuries to superstars are not an excuse. Detroit would not have won these cups with Lidstrom injured for instance.

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02-21-2011, 09:48 AM
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The biggest factor in winning the cup is LUCK imo... Of course there are many ways to get better odds when putting together your team, but there's no sure thing when its all said and done. So you either panik when you face bad luck or understand you cant buy luck and prepare for next season.

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02-21-2011, 10:04 AM
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Some people on here rely way too much on stats. It's like they don't even watch the game.

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02-21-2011, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by NBP81 View Post
The biggest factor in winning the cup is LUCK imo... Of course there are many ways to get better odds when putting together your team, but there's no sure thing when its all said and done. So you either panik when you face bad luck or understand you cant buy luck and prepare for next season.
Luck of which teams you face also.

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02-21-2011, 10:12 AM
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I know it seems pretty bleak right now, but I wouldn't make any big moves right now. I don't like the idea of trading away assets to "rent" a player for a playoff run that is not likely to go to the finals. I just can't fathom us beating Philly or Boston in a 7 game series (ok... maybe Boston, just because it's Boston)

Anyway... If there is someone you are looking at as a possible long term guy, then sure. Go for it. But no rentals.

That being said.... If the Gomez to Phoenix thing is at all feasible, I run to the fax machine. I'm also looking to sell on AK if i can get something for him now. He's not helping.

In terms of the offseason, I'm letting Hammer walk and finding ways to get rid of Spacek. Gill at a cheap rate MIGHT get another year from me, just for his PK and leadership. But he drops to 3rd pairing. Otherwise, unless someone falls in our lap (like a Bogosian) I'm going to resign what I have, as I think they will be very good with some experience and health.

Markov-Gorges
Subban-Gill
Wiz-Weber

Throw Price in there and we are set up fairly well, and at a pretty reasonable rate too.

Up front if you get rid of AK and Gomez you are going to have a lot of cap space to improve, but

Gionta-Plek-Cammy
Patches-???-???
Pouliot-Desharnais-White
Moen-Eller-Pyatt

You have 10.5 Mil to find a C and a Winger.... So you could take a run at Brad Richards (unlikely) and Simon Gagne (not sure if he'd want to be that guy)

Anyway... that would be a good team IMO.

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02-21-2011, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by canadianeh View Post
I know it seems pretty bleak right now, but I wouldn't make any big moves right now. I don't like the idea of trading away assets to "rent" a player for a playoff run that is not likely to go to the finals. I just can't fathom us beating Philly or Boston in a 7 game series (ok... maybe Boston, just because it's Boston)

Anyway... If there is someone you are looking at as a possible long term guy, then sure. Go for it. But no rentals.

That being said.... If the Gomez to Phoenix thing is at all feasible, I run to the fax machine. I'm also looking to sell on AK if i can get something for him now. He's not helping.

In terms of the offseason, I'm letting Hammer walk and finding ways to get rid of Spacek. Gill at a cheap rate MIGHT get another year from me, just for his PK and leadership. But he drops to 3rd pairing. Otherwise, unless someone falls in our lap (like a Bogosian) I'm going to resign what I have, as I think they will be very good with some experience and health.

Markov-Gorges
Subban-Gill
Wiz-Weber

Throw Price in there and we are set up fairly well, and at a pretty reasonable rate too.

Up front if you get rid of AK and Gomez you are going to have a lot of cap space to improve, but

Gionta-Plek-Cammy
Patches-???-???
Pouliot-Desharnais-White
Moen-Eller-Pyatt

You have 10.5 Mil to find a C and a Winger.... So you could take a run at Brad Richards (unlikely) and Simon Gagne (not sure if he'd want to be that guy)

Anyway... that would be a good team IMO.
As far as I remember Montreal was on a list of teams Richards would not accept a trade to when he was getting traded to Dallas from TB a few years back... So I don't see him coming here, unfortunately.

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02-21-2011, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by canadianeh View Post
I know it seems pretty bleak right now, but I wouldn't make any big moves right now. I don't like the idea of trading away assets to "rent" a player for a playoff run that is not likely to go to the finals. I just can't fathom us beating Philly or Boston in a 7 game series (ok... maybe Boston, just because it's Boston)

Anyway... If there is someone you are looking at as a possible long term guy, then sure. Go for it. But no rentals.

That being said.... If the Gomez to Phoenix thing is at all feasible, I run to the fax machine. I'm also looking to sell on AK if i can get something for him now. He's not helping.

In terms of the offseason, I'm letting Hammer walk and finding ways to get rid of Spacek. Gill at a cheap rate MIGHT get another year from me, just for his PK and leadership. But he drops to 3rd pairing. Otherwise, unless someone falls in our lap (like a Bogosian) I'm going to resign what I have, as I think they will be very good with some experience and health.

Markov-Gorges
Subban-Gill
Wiz-Weber

Throw Price in there and we are set up fairly well, and at a pretty reasonable rate too.

Up front if you get rid of AK and Gomez you are going to have a lot of cap space to improve, but

Gionta-Plek-Cammy
Patches-???-???
Pouliot-Desharnais-White
Moen-Eller-Pyatt

You have 10.5 Mil to find a C and a Winger.... So you could take a run at Brad Richards (unlikely) and Simon Gagne (not sure if he'd want to be that guy)

Anyway... that would be a good team IMO.
I understand what you're saying here. But we keep saying this every year. "We'll trade this guy and that guy and get rid of that other guy next year". That doesn't happen though. Signing players isn't a sure shot either...as it's difficult to land top flight players.

I just don't see this getting much better for a long time. I think, if Carey turns into a top 5 goalie, the Habs will have a much easier recovery from being a mediocre team. But if he ends up being a mid pack goalie, this franchise IMO, will be stuck for a long time. So many holes, so many big, long term contracts. It won't be pretty.

Just my 2 cents.

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02-21-2011, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Habs4ever View Post
Why do fans waste so much energy thinking about getting physical player, elite player, or anything else when the final objective is the Cup; I don't mind how they win, as long as they keep making playoffs and beating the odds I am a good and happy hab fans.
In the long-run staying on the bandwagon has proven to be less stressful. I'm older and wiser enough to admit that the present braintrust of the Candiens know a lot more than I do (and dare say 99.99% of board members) about what they want/need and can reasonably assemble in team parts. Like you, I'd rather take my chances making the playoffs and seeing where a hot goaltender might take us than crapping out for 3-5 years and hoping young draft picks can get us a Cup.

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02-21-2011, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maliki2 View Post
And you can't depend on Markov or any player to always be here forever. Markov has been injured and continues to be injured. You don't base your season around one player, you need to have a backup plan.
Lol.. and Brett Sterling is Pittsburgh's backup plan for losing Crosby.

Boy do they ever suck at making backup plans.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
I understand what you're saying here. But we keep saying this every year. "We'll trade this guy and that guy and get rid of that other guy next year". That doesn't happen though. Signing players isn't a sure shot either...as it's difficult to land top flight players.

I just don't see this getting much better for a long time. I think, if Carey turns into a top 5 goalie, the Habs will have a much easier recovery from being a mediocre team. But if he ends up being a mid pack goalie, this franchise IMO, will be stuck for a long time. So many holes, so many big, long term contracts. It won't be pretty.

Just my 2 cents.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm...nav-stn-league

Mediocre: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mediocre "moderate to inferior in quality".

That's without Markov, Gorges and Cammy for a long part... I think some of you guys are just spoiled.

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02-21-2011, 01:06 PM
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And you can't depend on Markov or any player to always be here forever. Markov has been injured and continues to be injured. You don't base your season around one player, you need to have a backup plan.
You think the Pens can replace Malkin? If they also lost Crosby for the rest of the year, would they have a back up plan and trade away picks+prospects for it?

It's also not just as simple as ''hey, you got to have a back up plan''. You didn't lose Markov, one of the top 10 Dman in this league, for a month or two. You lose him for a full year. So, nobody from within will replace him. That means you need to make a trade. Gauthier did make one, for Wiz. He's no Markov, but could help on the PP and is good offensively. Should we have delivered a similar package for Kaberle?..I surely wouldn't have wanted to give our 1st to Toronto+ prospects+conditionals.
But just a few days before, we also learn that Gorges will be gone for the whole season.
Should we keep trading some of our assets in order to patch those holes? Why?..Is it worth it?..Might be worth it if the price is cheap, but if it's steep, I have no interest in making that move.

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02-21-2011, 01:12 PM
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As far as I remember Montreal was on a list of teams Richards would not accept a trade to when he was getting traded to Dallas from TB a few years back... So I don't see him coming here, unfortunately.
It's a long shot, but who knows. I thought I read once that Richards grew up a Habs fan. He certainly seems to want to avoid the High Pressure markets though.

Gagne would be great, but I might take a shot with Jari Flesichmann too.

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02-21-2011, 01:25 PM
  #17
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everyone break out your umbrellas because the sky is falling

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02-21-2011, 01:28 PM
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yep deifinitely the end of the world.

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02-21-2011, 01:35 PM
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Any time you work in 6 rookies (Subban,Weber, Eller, Patches, Desharnais, White) and they effectively contribute, you have had a very successful year. We are not in a re-build but in an successful transition. We are not into our window of winning the cup so patience is of the outmost importance.

Priorities for PG:

- Trade Gomez
- Find 2 forwards that can play 3rd - 4th line, that add size and some protection.
- Re-stock Hamilton - organizational depth in the new NHL is critical to deal with all the injuries.

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02-21-2011, 01:37 PM
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failure really is not getting some big bodies up front and holding onto AK for so long.

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02-21-2011, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 24Cups View Post
In the long-run staying on the bandwagon has proven to be less stressful. I'm older and wiser enough to admit that the present braintrust of the Candiens know a lot more than I do (and dare say 99.99% of board members) about what they want/need and can reasonably assemble in team parts. Like you, I'd rather take my chances making the playoffs and seeing where a hot goaltender might take us than crapping out for 3-5 years and hoping young draft picks can get us a Cup.
Excellent post. With Price playing the way he has, anything can happen. Anyone who thinks you can win with mediocre goaltending (Niemi) also has to have a team with Hossa,Kane,Toews,Keith and Seabrook.

High draft choices are not a guaranteed roadmap to success: If that was the case, Columbus ( 5 top 10 picks in the last 9 years) should be a Cup contender by now.

You are also correct to leave things in the hands of the current braintrust. I do not personally "like" Pierre Gauthier but I acknowledge that he is a pretty sharp hockey mind. I prefer his "close to the vest" approach in comparison to the bombast of Brian Burke or the easy to read intentions of Brian Murray.

You won't see Gauthier giving a raise to an awful free agent with no leverage (Brett Lebda) or paying the same cap hit for an undrafted college free agent (Tyler Bozak) as the first overall draft pick currently leading the league in goal scoring (Steven Stamkos) $875,000 salary and $2,850,000 potential bonuses.

Yes he has made some mistakes, no he won't swing for the fences on a deal. He also won't drain the team of its future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You think the Pens can replace Malkin? If they also lost Crosby for the rest of the year, would they have a back up plan and trade away picks+prospects for it?

It's also not just as simple as ''hey, you got to have a back up plan''. You didn't lose Markov, one of the top 10 Dman in this league, for a month or two. You lose him for a full year. So, nobody from within will replace him. That means you need to make a trade. Gauthier did make one, for Wiz. He's no Markov, but could help on the PP and is good offensively. Should we have delivered a similar package for Kaberle?..I surely wouldn't have wanted to give our 1st to Toronto+ prospects+conditionals.
But just a few days before, we also learn that Gorges will be gone for the whole season.
Should we keep trading some of our assets in order to patch those holes? Why?..Is it worth it?..Might be worth it if the price is cheap, but if it's steep, I have no interest in making that move.
Great post. The price paid for Wisniewski was lower because PG beat the rush. Seeing the overpayment on some of these recent deals that deal looks better every day.

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02-21-2011, 07:38 PM
  #22
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i like where our management has us.and the future looks real solid.excellent job all the way around.now,,,, if we could just stay healthy.

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02-22-2011, 06:10 PM
  #23
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i like where our management has us.and the future looks real solid.excellent job all the way around.now,,,, if we could just stay healthy.
Yes, a little luck on the injury front would be nice...all things considered, we haven't had too bad a season with all the key guys going down to injuries...a 3 or 4 game win streak, and the gang on here will be talking about the playoffs again...

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02-23-2011, 03:43 PM
  #24
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The management has done an incredible job to turn things around. Just think about how bleak it all was a decade ago.

IMO, we have found our franchise players for the next decade or so in Price and Subban. Those two are very solid building blocks. Add to that Pacioretty who has shown a great upside in being a good powerforward; Eller who has potential to be Plekanec Jr.; and some nice talent in DD, and the rest.

Plus, we got some nice vets and young-vets guiding them. Gill, Plekanec, Cammalleri and Gionta really can show the ropes to these younger players. It all makes for a good team.

Basically, the management is currently thinking long-term, which is always positive.

I believe that the new cap-system will produce an even more clear rotational success-system in the NHL. Just like the economic environment, teams will have down years and up years because it will be hard to keep all your stars etc and so you have to build again.

We are currently builders. We are building a really great team, a process that started in 2003 when Gainey was named GM, that can compete for cups very soon, right after we get rid of Gomez and his contract.

You should never settle for mediocre, rather have realistic goals that motivate people to do their best. If I were Gauthier my target (with a healthy line-up in mind) would have been to not just get into the playoff's but atleast reach the ECSF. Now with the injuries, that goal is still realistic but a lot harder to reach. In a few years, our target should be the cup. Not now, hence why we are not selling assets for rentals.

** Basically, I would define a contender this way. - A team, like the current Flyers, that will have a hard time keeping their current players come the off-season because of the salary cap. Flyers is in real danger of loosing out on Leino because his demand will be quite high I would think. Therefore, they have to go all-in now to really try to make a difference (win the cup).

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02-23-2011, 04:32 PM
  #25
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And you can't depend on Markov or any player to always be here forever. Markov has been injured and continues to be injured. You don't base your season around one player, you need to have a backup plan.
Tell the Penguins that.

Not including Markov in the overall scheme is intellectually dishonest and is only meant to justify your own whining.

It's not a question of basing yourself on 'only one player', but rather understanding that he is part of the organization and his addition makes us a hard team to beat (you just need to look at Markov's win-loss record since 2006, over ,612).

It is ridiculous to talk of a back-up plan (wow you're a big genius, pretty sure the Habs didn't think about that one) when the player in question is your MVP and arguably one of the 10 best Ds in the league.

The sky will be raining cows the day the whiners and complainers will realize that they aren't the ones being realist.

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