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Value of Shea Weber

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Old
02-24-2011, 03:49 AM
  #1
canuckster19
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Value of Shea Weber

Hey Nashville fans.

The following is in no way to disrespect your franchise, but I have a somewhat complicated question.

The pure speculation I have read out there is that Shea Weber will only sign for one more year with Nashville so he can hit the UFA market 2012.

I proposed a trade on Canucks.com Shea Weber in exchange for Raymond, Ehrhoff (on the condition he extends with Nashville) and a conditional draft pick, 1st round max if Shea Weber signs long term with us.

I was told I was seriously undervaluing Shea Weber, but with the common exodus of Nashville UFAs, is one Weber season worth more than Raymond and Ehrhoff long term?

I hope I'm not coming off as a jerk or arrogant Canucks fan, I'm just trying to guage your fans opinions of the Weber situation.

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02-24-2011, 04:52 AM
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kypredsfan
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I'll just start with no. I don't believe he signs a 1 year deal. If he does, then we can talk. But I'm thinking Kesler is in there.

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02-24-2011, 05:10 AM
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Yeah, Shea's dying to get out of Nashville, one year at the most. I also heard Suter is so desperate to leave Nashville that he considered committing a crime, because prison > playing in Nashville. Franson is from Vancouver also, bet he wants to sign there, get started looking into that.

Yep, I'm gonna be a dick no matter how civil you attempt to make your op. This question has been asked 1,000,000 times. Just look up the old threads.

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02-24-2011, 06:17 AM
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Weber is going nowhere, he was recently quoted as saying that he loves it in Nashville, this is where he wants to be, and that something will get done.

And "exodus" of UFAs? Not since 2007 when we were going through an ownership change.

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02-24-2011, 06:47 AM
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Just curious, you read something that was speculation yet don't provide the link? Hmmmm. Provide the link, that isn't from your local paper of writers that know nothing of the situation, and then get back to me.

There's also speculation that Gordie Howe is coming out of retirement to play in the NHL in his 80's.

There's also speculation that one of the 30 NHL teams is going to win the Cup this year.

There's also speculation that Weber signs an offer sheet and if he does we sign Doughty or Parise to an offer sheet to replace him.

There's also speculation that a lot of Nashville are getting tired of BS rumors and speculation about the situation since ownership has said they have the money to sign him and he has said on numerous occasions that he loves living and playing here.

There was also an article written recently that asked a question to a scout in the NHL if Weber was going anywhere and the scout responded with "LOL".

I hope all of this speculation is crystal clear and if it's not, here's an offer for you, if you want Weber, we'll take one of the twins in return. There's your freaking value.

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02-24-2011, 06:49 AM
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Part of the undervaluing of Shea comes from what he means to the Predators organization. He is our superstar that we developed. He is the first Predators captain drafted by the predators and is the face of our franchise. So, even though your proposal is still under market value for him, he is still worth more to us than he would be to a team that can spend to the cap to bring in big name FAs. And he put the puck through the net in the Olympics. That's just awesome.

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02-24-2011, 07:15 AM
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canuckster19
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Ok obviously I've struck a chord, and not too surprising I guess.

I understand your love for your captain, I get that, now I'm not going against what Shea Weber has said about his desires, if they're sincere then good for the Predators, give him what he deserves, but just remember he wouldn't be the first guy to say that and then skip town, and by town I don't mean Nashville, just NHL and sports in general.

Well I'll stick my neck out and go for broke, rephrasing my original question, IF and I really mean IF, Weber opts for arbitration and only has one more guaranteed year as a Predator, would you want to try and get value for him or would you prefer he plays out his contract?

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02-24-2011, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
And "exodus" of UFAs? Not since 2007 when we were going through an ownership change.
Hamhuis, Fiddler, Zanon, Boyd, Ellis - probably count as a few. (Yes, I know three of the five were traded but so what? In essence they were UFAs that were going to leave.) I know there were more but can't think of them right now.

Not quite an "exodus" but there were some.

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02-24-2011, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckster19 View Post
Ok obviously I've struck a chord, and not too surprising I guess.

I understand your love for your captain, I get that, now I'm not going against what Shea Weber has said about his desires, if they're sincere then good for the Predators, give him what he deserves, but just remember he wouldn't be the first guy to say that and then skip town, and by town I don't mean Nashville, just NHL and sports in general.

Well I'll stick my neck out and go for broke, rephrasing my original question, IF and I really mean IF, Weber opts for arbitration and only has one more guaranteed year as a Predator, would you want to try and get value for him or would you prefer he plays out his contract?
In that situation I can't imagine us keeping him for only 1 season. Nothing good ever comes from arbitration. We'd trade him before it got to that point. If he's only willing to sign for 1 year, I think Poile would think very hard about trading him.

Remember that compensation from an offer sheet is 4 1st round picks. So that is a good starting point to base any trade off of. I'm not sure your offer is worth 4 1sts. This is how I would value your offer in terms of picks:
Raymond - 2nd
Ehrhoff - 1st and 2nd
conditional pick - 1st at best

So yeah, I think it comes up a little bit short.

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02-24-2011, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
Hamhuis, Fiddler, Zanon, Boyd, Ellis - probably count as a few.

Wow, those are 5 stars of the league that got up and left Nashville for a pursuit of something better.

Hamhuis left because he wanted top 2 minutes and power play time. With Weber and Suter here in Nashville he was never going to get that. I guess you can say that he was a big free agent loss however, there are nearly a half a dozen top 4 defense men in the system already. No need to over pay for one that is expendable.

Fiddler great guy plays with alot of heart. I was sad to see him go, but when you look at the way he plays. A defensive style game with a little bit of offensive upside I think that we already have that with Smithson, Goc, Legwand, and to a lesser extent Ward and O'reilly.

Zanon a shot blocking machine, however, the defensive prospects in Nashville were an upgrade.

Boyd should have some offensive upside but is having a hard time cracking an NHL lineup and is playing in the AHL as we speak.

Ellis he wanted to be a number 1 goalie. With Pekka here he was always going to be #2. With Lindback and Dex in the system he was expendable and was traded along with Boyd for SK74.

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02-24-2011, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
Hamhuis, Fiddler, Zanon, Boyd, Ellis - probably count as a few. (Yes, I know three of the five were traded but so what? In essence they were UFAs that were going to leave.) I know there were more but can't think of them right now.

Not quite an "exodus" but there were some.
Sure, but part of the point of an "exodus" is guys leaving that you actually want to keep AND that you offer a reasonable market contract for and similar opportunity to what they get when they leave.

You could say we'd like to keep Hammer, Z, and maybe Ellis, but we had cheap/entry-level contract guys to replace Z and Ellis for the roles we needed them to fill and they left and not only got more $$ but bigger role. Hammer - well, he sucked with KK so I'm ok with spending the money on Cube, SOB, and banking the difference to fill in for our injured forwards . He's probably the one guy I would say truly fits in the "got away" category.

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02-24-2011, 08:42 AM
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Good grief the guy asks a legit question and everyone around here starts acting like a bunch of 2 year olds.
Sorry canuckster, to your question. While everyone around here hopes the Weber decides Nashville is the place to stay long term, there are obvious challenges to that. If he or the org decides that a long term situation cannot happen then obviously the Preds would want to get some value. We are deep with d prospects and solid goaltending so I think the trade would have to include some offensive talent. Past that, I really don't know what value you could put on Weber. Ownership is serious about keeping both Weber and Suter and know that's going to cost to do that. But a combination like that is rare and everyone in Nashville would hate to see the two of them split up.

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02-24-2011, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
Hamhuis, Fiddler, Zanon, Boyd, Ellis - probably count as a few. (Yes, I know three of the five were traded but so what? In essence they were UFAs that were going to leave.) I know there were more but can't think of them right now.

Not quite an "exodus" but there were some.
Of that group, only Hamhuis could be considered anything more than an average player. Zanon and Fiddler both got overpaid(arguably, Hamhuis did as well). Boyd is in the AHL, Ellis wanted to go somewhere that he could be a true starter(which blew up in his face).

We've had a recycling of players that any team goes through, but I think we've been good about identifying and maintaining our core.

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02-24-2011, 08:55 AM
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Okay, I'll play the game.

IF Weber decided to elect arbitration, I'd still keep him for that year. We could still get a pretty colossal value for him trading him at the deadline before his UFA summer or even in the offseason before July 1...think Kovalchuk-esque deal. In that unlikely event (and I do mean unlikely, I still don't think Nashville makes Weber their captain and builds their franchise around him only to allow him to move on), if Nashville we're dealing with the Canucks, there's no deal I could see the Preds being interested in that doesn't involve Cody Hodgson.

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02-24-2011, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
Good grief the guy asks a legit question and everyone around here starts acting like a bunch of 2 year olds.
Sorry canuckster, to your question. While everyone around here hopes the Weber decides Nashville is the place to stay long term, there are obvious challenges to that. If he or the org decides that a long term situation cannot happen then obviously the Preds would want to get some value. We are deep with d prospects and solid goaltending so I think the trade would have to include some offensive talent. Past that, I really don't know what value you could put on Weber. Ownership is serious about keeping both Weber and Suter and know that's going to cost to do that. But a combination like that is rare and everyone in Nashville would hate to see the two of them split up.
THIS

I can't believe how childish some of you are acting. He came on here in a civil way (not bashing our franchise at all) and all you guys do is lambaste him. Why?

To answer your question. Yes, it is undervaluing him. As someone else said, I don't think we will sign him to a 1 year deal (allowing him to be an UFA after next year). We will offer him something much longer, otherwise we trade him. Let's think of it this way: If he signs an offer sheet elsewhere, we will get 4 first round picks. So, I'd say we should at least get 2 or 3 players that are worthy of being considered first round picks PLUS an actual first round pick.

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02-24-2011, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
THIS

I can't believe how childish some of you are acting. He came on here in a civil way (not bashing our franchise at all) and all you guys do is lambaste him. Why?

To answer your question. Yes, it is undervaluing him. As someone else said, I don't think we will sign him to a 1 year deal (allowing him to be an UFA after next year). We will offer him something much longer, otherwise we trade him. Let's think of it this way: If he signs an offer sheet elsewhere, we will get 4 first round picks. So, I'd say we should at least get 2 or 3 players that are worthy of being considered first round picks PLUS an actual first round pick.
I think what people are resenting is that he's implying that despite what we say and think, there's good information out there to suggest that Weber won't sign a long term deal, or that Weber fits the mold of the people we've allowed to walk. I don't think either statement is accurate, and it is insulting to suggest otherwise.

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02-24-2011, 10:18 AM
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We kind of also tended to flame the polite folks suggesting Nash was going to leave. It's something of a natural reaction. It feels like disrespect of your team, no matter how politely it's put.

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02-24-2011, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I think what people are resenting is that he's implying that despite what we say and think, there's good information out there to suggest that Weber won't sign a long term deal, or that Weber fits the mold of the people we've allowed to walk. I don't think either statement is accurate, and it is insulting to suggest otherwise.
Disagree, he said there is "pure speculation" which means "On the small chance that it happens, if it will ever happen... then what?"

It was a hypothetical question in my opinion.

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02-24-2011, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by canuckster19 View Post
Hey Nashville fans.

The following is in no way to disrespect your franchise, but I have a somewhat complicated question.

The pure speculation I have read out there is that Shea Weber will only sign for one more year with Nashville so he can hit the UFA market 2012.

I proposed a trade on Canucks.com Shea Weber in exchange for Raymond, Ehrhoff (on the condition he extends with Nashville) and a conditional draft pick, 1st round max if Shea Weber signs long term with us.

I was told I was seriously undervaluing Shea Weber, but with the common exodus of Nashville UFAs, is one Weber season worth more than Raymond and Ehrhoff long term?

I hope I'm not coming off as a jerk or arrogant Canucks fan, I'm just trying to guage your fans opinions of the Weber situation.
I haven't read any other posts on this thread yet, but I can tell you right now you're way off base with the "common exodus" part. This is only believe by people whose only knowledge of the Predators outside of the stats sheet is the sale in 2007, during which a fire sale was initiated. Hamhuis wanted too much money for a number three defender when we will have to pay both Suter and Weber #1 money. Arnott was signed, but was told he wouldn't be extended because of the direction the team was going to take. He asked for a trade, and Poile obliged. Kariya, Hartnell, Vokoun, and Timonen were all part of the fire sale.

Anyway, I don't take that trade if Weber is looking to only sign for one more year. The first thing I would do is wait to see what kind of offer sheets come in, if any at all. If I can get four firsts out of a team I'm going to. If that doesn't work out the way I want then I look for trades, but OUT of conference is where I start. Why do we ship off one of the best defensemen in the league to anyone we play more than once or twice in a season for anything less than a complete rip off?

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02-24-2011, 02:02 PM
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I'll just start with no. I don't believe he signs a 1 year deal. If he does, then we can talk. But I'm thinking Kesler is in there.
this. call back after you se4e that one year deal. otherwise the response to a trade proposal for Weber is the same one given by a western conf scout... "LOL"

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