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Old
02-28-2011, 05:18 PM
  #151
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As you must have four years earlier in Turin. Remember that one?
You may want to take a look at how many NHL players were on the medal teams.

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02-28-2011, 05:19 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by phillyfury View Post
As you must have four years earlier in Turin. Remember that one?
So, you think Turin justifies stating that the team that has won 2 of the last 3 Olympic gold medals, and has been a dominant international force at the junior level.... has faired "quite poorly?"

BTW, the two teams that competed for the gold at Turin? Dominated by NHL players on their rosters.

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02-28-2011, 05:22 PM
  #153
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Why don't you thumb through your stats, nerd. Look at who's won the most World Championships. See a lot of Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, Sweden, Canada, sprinkled in there, US hardly at all. And before you whine about how the NHL's best are occupied with playoffs et al, check the year Gretzky played in 1982. Check that Canada roster, and still they managed just a bronze, losing one game to Czechoslovakia 6-2.
1982... you are citing 1982... and you're comparing the teams that Canada sent (US is worthless in 1982) to the organized teams that the Czech's and Soviets were sending?

1) Why are you creating this impression that anyone has argued that the US is oh-so-good?

2) Do you have no historical perspective whatsoever?

3) What does 1982 have to do with the *ing KHL?

You're flailing and embarrassing yourself, dude.

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02-28-2011, 06:09 PM
  #154
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phillyfury, you have made the single worst argument in the history of HF. Nothing you're saying is supportive of anything. Everyone in this thread is dumber for having read your posts.

I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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02-28-2011, 06:11 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
phillyfury, you have made the single worst argument in the history of HF. Nothing you're saying is supportive of anything. Everyone in this thread is dumber for having read your posts.

I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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02-28-2011, 06:12 PM
  #156
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1982... you are citing 1982... and you're comparing the teams that Canada sent (US is worthless in 1982) to the organized teams that the Czech's and Soviets were sending?

1) Why are you creating this impression that anyone has argued that the US is oh-so-good?

2) Do you have no historical perspective whatsoever?

3) What does 1982 have to do with the *ing KHL?

You're flailing and embarrassing yourself, dude.
Come on Jester, 1982 has everything to do with the KHL...what are you thinking???

Robert Nillsson has scored 6 points in 4 games over there so far....couldnt do squat in the NHL or AHL...enough said.

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02-28-2011, 07:13 PM
  #157
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What I am saying is he has had his chances but seems to eventually run the same course, if that is the case why keep him around for a 20+ game stretch where he could be the difference between a SC or a 2nd round loss? Get me someone who the team can count on every night to show up.




I think being passed over by 29 teams that could virtually get you for nothing could be a sobering experience for anyone. I'll take Zherdev a game at a time and ***** at him accordingly. He was one of just a few of our guys that had legs against Ottawa.

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02-28-2011, 08:45 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
I think being passed over by 29 teams that could virtually get you for nothing could be a sobering experience for anyone. I'll take Zherdev a game at a time and ***** at him accordingly. He was one of just a few of our guys that had legs against Ottawa.
Only because he was allowed out of the doghouse. That's been his pattern all season, come out strong after being benched or scratched, slowly slip into old habits, get benched in the third, healthy scratched for a couple of games, play well for a game, lather, rinse, repeat.

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02-28-2011, 08:56 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Only because he was allowed out of the doghouse. That's been his pattern all season, come out strong after being benched or scratched, slowly slip into old habits, get benched in the third, healthy scratched for a couple of games, play well for a game, lather, rinse, repeat.




This is as overused on HF as "at the end of the day." Since we're pointing out the obvious, Zherdev should know that he won't get another chance. He either plays North South, in the corners and on the back check or he finishes in Glen Falls. Should be pretty simple and hopefully it works out for Zherdev and the Flyers.

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02-28-2011, 09:12 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
This is as overused on HF as "at the end of the day." Since we're pointing out the obvious, Zherdev should know that he won't get another chance. He either plays North South, in the corners and on the back check or he finishes in Glen Falls. Should be pretty simple and hopefully it works out for Zherdev and the Flyers.
He knew this when the season started and it didn't make a difference. They need to move on from this experiment and concentrate on the other guys on the team instead of doing thing to try and motivate someone who doesn't get it.

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03-01-2011, 07:50 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
phillyfury, you have made the single worst argument in the history of HF. Nothing you're saying is supportive of anything. Everyone in this thread is dumber for having read your posts.

I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
I agree, he seems to have bitten off more than he can chew:


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03-01-2011, 08:27 AM
  #162
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He knew this when the season started and it didn't make a difference. They need to move on from this experiment and concentrate on the other guys on the team instead of doing thing to try and motivate someone who doesn't get it.



He knew what? Did we give him an ultimatum before we signed him? To my knowledge, this was Zherdev's first trip to the wire. I'm not saying that they shouldn't move on if laziness or stupidity rears it's ugly head again, but they've got about 20 games till the Post season and if Zherdev got it together over the next few months, he's worth having on your roster. If he doesn't...send him down.

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03-01-2011, 09:08 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
He knew what? Did we give him an ultimatum before we signed him? To my knowledge, this was Zherdev's first trip to the wire. I'm not saying that they shouldn't move on if laziness or stupidity rears it's ugly head again, but they've got about 20 games till the Post season and if Zherdev got it together over the next few months, he's worth having on your roster. If he doesn't...send him down.
The GM and the coaches and the team leadership all see what is happening on a daily basis. I have to think that, whatever bad habits he's been showing, that the veterans realize what he 'could' bring to the table - which is why he's still here.

Let's hope that, having got his agent's wish to be put on waivers ahead of deadline day, he realizes this is his last chance to succeed in the NHL.

As always, I hope he scores 30 goals in the playoffs and wins the friggin' Conn Smythe. That would make me happy. I don't have a stake in it. It's up to him. If he plays, he stays. If he's a distraction, he has to go.

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03-01-2011, 09:11 AM
  #164
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The GM and the coaches and the team leadership all see what is happening on a daily basis. I have to think that, whatever bad habits he's been showing, that the veterans realize what he 'could' bring to the table - which is why he's still here.

Let's hope that, having got his agent's wish to be put on waivers ahead of deadline day, he realizes this is his last chance to succeed in the NHL.

As always, I hope he scores 30 goals in the playoffs and wins the friggin' Conn Smythe. That would make me happy. I don't have a stake in it. It's up to him. If he plays, he stays. If he's a distraction, he has to go.





I'd start a thread.

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03-01-2011, 09:22 AM
  #165
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Salavat Yulayev Ufa of the KHL interested in signing Nikolay Zherdev for next season. Offer expected to be $1M.
Interesting.

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03-01-2011, 09:24 AM
  #166
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EuroFlyers


Interesting.
Is that an equivalent amount, or do taxes take a bigger bite?

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03-01-2011, 09:29 AM
  #167
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I dont think KHL players get taxed

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03-01-2011, 09:38 AM
  #168
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Pretty sure he'll go back to Russia next season, unless he plays monster playoffs this spring.

Flyers are the only team that (barely) stands him and he's not a part of 2011-2012 season's plans for Flyers. Nobody else won't even pee to his direction.

That's if he doesn't have Briere-like post-season.

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03-01-2011, 09:58 AM
  #169
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Pretty sure he'll go back to Russia next season, unless he plays monster playoffs this spring.

Flyers are the only team that (barely) stands him and he's not a part of 2011-2012 season's plans for Flyers. Nobody else won't even pee to his direction.

That's if he doesn't have Briere-like post-season.
I'm surprised Homer hasn't demoted him to Adirondack.

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03-01-2011, 10:01 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
He knew what? Did we give him an ultimatum before we signed him? To my knowledge, this was Zherdev's first trip to the wire. I'm not saying that they shouldn't move on if laziness or stupidity rears it's ugly head again, but they've got about 20 games till the Post season and if Zherdev got it together over the next few months, he's worth having on your roster. If he doesn't...send him down.
How many chances do you want to give the guy? After all of these kind words and talk he then decided to go to the GM and and complain that he is not getting enough ice time and more specifically PP minutes. Here is a little bit from an article earlier in the season:

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/artic...-work-progress

Despite his enormous talent, Zherdev has often been labeled as an aloof player who has resisted coaches' attempts to get him to play just as hard without the puck than when he possesses it. In Zherdev's four years with the Blue Jackets, former coach Ken Hitchcock and general manager Doug MacLean alternately implored their star winger to give more consistent efforts.

Even his teammates in Columbus questioned his commitment, with one anonymously calling him a "diva," and another saying he was not a good teammate, adding, "and that's being kind."

Through the first month of the season there have been no such comments from the Flyers' dressing room or coach's office. Holmgren said Zherdev's only complaints this season have been about ice time. Because he does not kill penalties and has seen very limited power play time, Zherdev's only ice time has been at even strength.

"My response is, "What are you going to do about it?' " Holmgren said. "The coach isn't stupid. When you play better you play more."

Holmgren said he hopes that once Zherdev is involved more offensively, his ice time will increase and his impact on the team will be greater than it has been. For now, however, Holmgren is not about to rush to judgment on his $2 million investment.

"I think it's too early in the game to make any rash decisions on him or start jumping off bridges," Holmgren said. "I think getting him to play our style of play takes time."



Zherdev knew what was expected of him when he signed, here is an interview with him by Chuck Gormley to begin the season:

Zherdev says he has something to prove

Posted By Chuck Gormley On July 14, 2010 @ 4:20 pm In Uncategorized | 2 Comments

Transcript from todayís conference call with Nikolai Zherdev:

Q: Why Philadelphia?

ďFirst of all, it was a very good offer from Philadelphia for me. Also I think Philadelphia is a good fit for my hockey system.Ē

Q: Do you feel you have something to prove in your return to the NHL?

ďIím very happy to be back in the NHL. I had some difficulty last season signing a contract in the NHL and I made the decision to stay one season in Russia. But basically my goal is to come to the NHL and be one of the best players, and play every night, and show everybody Iím ready and that Iím an NHL player.Ē

Q: A lot has been written over the past year about your reputation Ė can you respond to that?

ďFirst of all, I donít pay much attention to the people who write about me about bad things or good things. Sometimes the media has different opinions about different players. Right now my goal is to come to Philadelphia and prepare for the long hockey season. Iíd like to play hockey right now.Ē



Q: What do you think you can bring to the Flyers in terms of offense?

ďFirst of all, I bring my skills Ė I have good puck control, and that probably will be good for me. If the coach makes the decision I can probably play on the power play. Iíve changed my style and tried to play more in the defensive zone. I think right now Iím a two-way player. Before I was probably more of a forward, more in the attack zone, but right now I think the last couple seasons Iíve played more in the defensive zone too. More important, I probably bring skills, speed and hockey sense is probably what I have best.Ē


Q: Do you consider this a fresh start, an opportunity to prove to people what you can do on the ice?

I still believe Iím still a good hockey player, and people who know me and remember me, Iíd like to prove Iím still a good hockey player. For me, it will be new. Itís a new team, new teammates, a new coach, new organization and a new city. It will probably be new for me to come to Philadelphia. As a hockey player, I still have my tools, and Iíd like to show everybody Iím still a good hockey player.


Q: Did your year in the KHL benefit your game at all?

ďI donít have any benefits to return for one year in Russia. It was just to play hockey. I didnít have too many offers from the NHL last season, so we decided to stay in Russia for one season. But I donít have any benefits [from playing] in Russia for a year.Ē

Q: Whatís the biggest difference between the NHL and KHL styles?

ďItís very difficult to compare. Itís two different hockey leagues. Thereís differences in everything. The [ice] is smaller in the NHL and bigger in Russia. Different speed, different hockey players, different tactics. Everythingís different. Theyíre two different hockey leagues. Theyíre not even close.Ē

Q: Was this the best offer you got?

ďFirst of all, I donít want to talk about other teams, but Iím happy being on the Philadelphia Flyers and I look forward to coming to Philadelphia and playing all year for the Flyers. This is more important for me now. This is a team that would like to have me and I made a choice to be in Philadelphia.Ē

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03-01-2011, 10:02 AM
  #171
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I'm surprised Homer hasn't demoted him to Adirondack.
I'm sure he's only keeping him here as insurance. As bad as Shelley is, at least the guy is trying to do his job at both ends of the rink. He doesn't have to be babysat and that allows the coaches to work on other things.

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03-01-2011, 10:20 AM
  #172
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What have I assumed? One, that you don't speak Czech, which was correct, and, two, that you don't watch KHL games, which was incorrect. Not many assumptions there. Okay, Morrison was a weak case, I concede, but I still argue that failure in the NHL does not mean inferior in ability. Hubacek couldn't cut it statistically in the AHL doesn't convince me he is inferior ability-wise to most of the players there, in the NHL, or AHL. Again, I'd love to see the two leagues bring their two best teams together. If the KHL teams get crucified, I eat crow. But the Russian teams won't lose at home, and people like you will be forced to admit that once again maybe not everything is so wonderful or the best in America.
Unlike everyone piling on you, I see your point. In 1972 we sent the best hockey players in the NHL to play the best hockey players in Russia. Everyone in Canada had the same view as Jester, this would be a slaughter. It wasn't. It was the greatest series in hockey history. I suspect your right, if we sent the Chicago Blackhawks to Russia for a 7 game series, they would have a hard time. And also, any KHL team would lose over here.

The KHL is a great hockey league. With transfer agreement issues out of russia, many of the best russian hockey players are playing in Russia. Not ALL the best players come to the NHL.

Ice Hockey in an NHL sized rink is COMPLETELY different than Olympic sized rink. Ask anyone who has played both. Russian players tend to do much better in them.

People "had" the same opinion in Basketball. Dream teams from the United States would destroy the world. Now we know, the Greece, Australian, Brazil, Argentina and other counties "style" of basketball makes it difficult to win. The NBA has the best players, but unless they play a well coached, well executed game - they lose.

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03-01-2011, 10:28 AM
  #173
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Unlike everyone piling on you, I see your point. In 1972 we sent the best hockey players in the NHL to play the best hockey players in Russia. Everyone in Canada had the same view as Jester, this would be a slaughter. It wasn't. It was the greatest series in hockey history. I suspect your right, if we sent the Chicago Blackhawks to Russia for a 7 game series, they would have a hard time. And also, any KHL team would lose over here.

The KHL is a great hockey league. With transfer agreement issues out of russia, many of the best russian hockey players are playing in Russia. Not ALL the best players come to the NHL.

Ice Hockey in an NHL sized rink is COMPLETELY different than Olympic sized rink. Ask anyone who has played both. Russian players tend to do much better in them.

People "had" the same opinion in Basketball. Dream teams from the United States would destroy the world. Now we know, the Greece, Australian, Brazil, Argentina and other counties "style" of basketball makes it difficult to win. The NBA has the best players, but unless they play a well coached, well executed game - they lose.
There is a massive difference between 1972 and 2011...namely, the Cold War. Today, the best players in the former USSR play in the NHL. Arrange the same match today between the best players from the NHL and the best from those countries, and the result is different. Can the former USSR put together a line remotely like OV-Crosby-Malkin? Or a defensive pairing that comes close to Lidstrom-Pronger?

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03-01-2011, 10:47 AM
  #174
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Every single player in the NHL isn't better than every single player in the KHL. But there is no KHL player better than Datsyuk, Malkin, or Ovechkin. No KHL defenseman is better than Andrei Markov. No KHL goaltender is better than Ilya Bryzgalov. The best in the world still play in the best league in the world and always will.

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03-01-2011, 10:53 AM
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There is a massive difference between 1972 and 2011...namely, the Cold War. Today, the best players in the former USSR play in the NHL. Arrange the same match today between the best players from the NHL and the best from those countries, and the result is different. Can the former USSR put together a line remotely like OV-Crosby-Malkin? Or a defensive pairing that comes close to Lidstrom-Pronger?
I think you are missing the point. The only thing I am saying is, the hockey on an Olympic sized ice rink is much different then an NHL rink. In Russia they play every game on this ice rink, they are game planned for this ice rink, they have a skill set that works on this ice rink. If you sent over the "blackhawks" to play "St. Petersburg" I don't think it would be a slaughter in favor of the NHL. Now if we are talking about all star team versus all star team, then I take the NHL - since Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Backstrom, SedinX2, etc are all accustomed to this game.

Again, his point got diluted with the statements of Canada having "poor performance" internationally. The original point he was making was that the KHL is a good league with good players and if the NHL sent their best team to play the KHL best team "IN RUSSIA", the KHL would win. I am saying, I see your point. It is possible, I could see that happening.

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