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Old
02-26-2011, 06:29 PM
  #751
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Originally Posted by Pugs35 View Post
What about giving up Boyle? Not saying I'd necessarily be for it but I'd rather surrender Boyle than Anisimov.
no...seriously is Richards going to get the team the cup now????

stop being greedy

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02-26-2011, 06:37 PM
  #752
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Brad Richards will never cost 0 assets. Any thoughts of that is being greedy and unrealistic.

With Dallas winning today, and quite possibly needing the playoff and home game revenue, I don't think Nieuwendyk will find the deal he really wants before Monday.

However, if they cannot get Brad Richards signed to a longterm deal, he will surely be traded before the draft. There is 0% chance that Dallas gets nothing for him. It took GMs a few years to learn how to work with the current CBA, but more and more teams are learning how to get assets. Dallas will not be left emptyhanded.

If the Rangers can't get BR over the weekend, they will still need to put together a package, albeit a much smaller one, to get his rights at the draft.

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02-26-2011, 06:46 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Pugs35 View Post
What about giving up Boyle? Not saying I'd necessarily be for it but I'd rather surrender Boyle than Anisimov.
I absolutely disagree.

Boyle is just blossoming. The sky is the limit for this guy. He's got size, and pretty good hands, and now he's got the skating ability to make things happen. He just scored his team-leading 20th goal. This is only his 3rd season. I also see wonderful leadership qualities in Boyle's demeanor, interviews, and on-ice play. He's the type of guy you need to win championships. He could work on his defensive zone coverage, as he often loses his center after the faceoff, which has directly resulted in a few goals against this year. But I think in the long run, Boyle is going to be a more valuable player than Anisimov. I just don't see the Datsyuk-lite comparisons that some people throw around. Anisimov is a good two-way center. He's a 2nd-3rd line tweener. I don't think he'll ever be a legitimate 1st line center in the NHL. I think Boyle could score 30+ goals if he moves to the wing and has the right linemates. He just scored 20 with 20 games left in the season, playing most of the year with Brandon Prust and a revolving door of Avery, Fedotenko, Christensen, Drury.

Zubrus is a better comparison than Datsyuk-lite. Anisimov has a lethal wrist shot, but he's not smart enough or slick enough to consistently get open enough to use it. He shies away from contact. He RARELY finishes his checks (which is something I've brought up before, regarding how I don't understand why Torts seems to have accepted this in his game). Everyone should have to finish their checks. Even Gaborik finishes his check more often than Anisimov, and he rarely does too.

Bottom line: What Anisimov brings is easily replaceable. It's easier to find a 2nd-3rd line center who isn't physical, isn't good at faceoffs (which I'm sure he'll get better at), and puts up 40-50 points (which I see Anisimov's career averages being around) than to find a 6'7" center / winger (I think he, like Dubinsky, is better suited for the wing) who can score 20+ goals playing on the 3rd and 4th lines + PK most of the year. Anisimov has had much better linemates all year and Boyle has eclipsed him big time. Boyle is also a PKer, which Anisimov is not. Boyle can actually play in EVERY situation. I see some Messier in Boyle's demeanor. I really love what he's brought this year. Anisimov has regressed. He hasn't impressed me at all this year. He shows flashes, but then he disappears for 3 weeks until the next flash. Who does that sound like? Zherdev? If Anisimov wasn't a home-grown, he would be the whipping boy around here.

Trade him while is potential is still a bit of an unknown. Trade him before other teams realize he's nothing special. He doesn't have the same kind of balls-to-the-wall identity and character makeup that Cally, Dubi, Prust, Boyle, etc have. He doesn't really fit into this team's identity. He just doesn't. He's a good player. But he's totally replaceable, and especially expendable when we're talking about one of the best playmakers in the game in Brad Richards. It's a joke that some of you even have to THINK about this.

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02-26-2011, 06:52 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Pugs35 View Post
What about giving up Boyle? Not saying I'd necessarily be for it but I'd rather surrender Boyle than Anisimov.
I'd rather have Boyle than Artie IF we add Richards for a few reasons
Boyle is more suited to be a shutdown defensive minded center who can score whereas Artie is a 2nd line center who is good defensively but not as good as Boyle
Boyle is a beast on the PK
Boyle is better on face-offs
Boyle is more physical

I prefer to keep both but I'm assuming to get Richards we are looking at gilroy, anisimov, grachev and conditional draft pick if resigned

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02-26-2011, 06:53 PM
  #755
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This is Boyler's first season where he's looked like a legitimate NHL talent.

If I had to choose right now, i'd choose Arty because he's been consistent in what he is- Boyle can go back to being a joke next season if he doesn't work his ass off.

I'd rather if we kept both, though.

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02-26-2011, 06:58 PM
  #756
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Dallas fans on the main board have been saying that their GM is not very high on Russians and apparently shys away from drafting/signing/trading for them. If that is the case, I cannot see him wanting both Anisimov and Grachev. Might be better for the Rangers if that is the case, too. I'd rather not lose both of them in a trade.

I think the Dallas win today makes it even less likely that they move Richards. They are in 7th place right now (But just 3 points out of 11th).

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02-26-2011, 07:03 PM
  #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
I'd rather have Boyle than Artie IF we add Richards for a few reasons
Boyle is more suited to be a shutdown defensive minded center who can score whereas Artie is a 2nd line center who is good defensively but not as good as Boyle
Boyle is a beast on the PK
Boyle is better on face-offs
Boyle is more physical

I prefer to keep both but I'm assuming to get Richards we are looking at gilroy, anisimov, grachev and conditional draft pick if resigned
Boyle is also a RFA, and I'd prefer not to pay this guy like this is going to be the norm for him when we have no idea if it's his breakout year or he's just having one of those years where things go your way. He's going to want a nice raise. We're gonig to have to deal some of these RFA guys. How are we going to manage this summer cap if we don't?

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02-26-2011, 07:03 PM
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
This is Boyler's first season where he's looked like a legitimate NHL talent.

If I had to choose right now, i'd choose Arty because he's been consistent in what he is- Boyle can go back to being a joke next season if he doesn't work his ass off.

I'd rather if we kept both, though.
And that's why when you hear the notion of people signing Boyle for a multi-year deal is asinine.

Many have the broken belief that this is just the beginning of Brian Boyle's development, when this could just as easily be his plateau or peak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
I'd rather have Boyle than Artie IF we add Richards for a few reasons
Boyle is more suited to be a shutdown defensive minded center who can score whereas Artie is a 2nd line center who is good defensively but not as good as Boyle
While Boyle's size and reach/wingspan are fantastic in PK situations, Boyle is no where nearly as talented defensively as Anisimov. Artem is not flashy, but his defensive game is miles ahead.


Last edited by frozenrubber: 02-26-2011 at 07:12 PM.
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02-26-2011, 07:06 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
I absolutely disagree.

Boyle is just blossoming. The sky is the limit for this guy. He's got size, and pretty good hands, and now he's got the skating ability to make things happen. He just scored his team-leading 20th goal. This is only his 3rd season. I also see wonderful leadership qualities in Boyle's demeanor, interviews, and on-ice play. He's the type of guy you need to win championships. He could work on his defensive zone coverage, as he often loses his center after the faceoff, which has directly resulted in a few goals against this year. But I think in the long run, Boyle is going to be a more valuable player than Anisimov. I just don't see the Datsyuk-lite comparisons that some people throw around. Anisimov is a good two-way center. He's a 2nd-3rd line tweener. I don't think he'll ever be a legitimate 1st line center in the NHL. I think Boyle could score 30+ goals if he moves to the wing and has the right linemates. He just scored 20 with 20 games left in the season, playing most of the year with Brandon Prust and a revolving door of Avery, Fedotenko, Christensen, Drury.

Zubrus is a better comparison than Datsyuk-lite. Anisimov has a lethal wrist shot, but he's not smart enough or slick enough to consistently get open enough to use it. He shies away from contact. He RARELY finishes his checks (which is something I've brought up before, regarding how I don't understand why Torts seems to have accepted this in his game). Everyone should have to finish their checks. Even Gaborik finishes his check more often than Anisimov, and he rarely does too.

Bottom line: What Anisimov brings is easily replaceable. It's easier to find a 2nd-3rd line center who isn't physical, isn't good at faceoffs (which I'm sure he'll get better at), and puts up 40-50 points (which I see Anisimov's career averages being around) than to find a 6'7" center / winger (I think he, like Dubinsky, is better suited for the wing) who can score 20+ goals playing on the 3rd and 4th lines + PK most of the year. Anisimov has had much better linemates all year and Boyle has eclipsed him big time. Boyle is also a PKer, which Anisimov is not. Boyle can actually play in EVERY situation. I see some Messier in Boyle's demeanor. I really love what he's brought this year. Anisimov has regressed. He hasn't impressed me at all this year. He shows flashes, but then he disappears for 3 weeks until the next flash. Who does that sound like? Zherdev? If Anisimov wasn't a home-grown, he would be the whipping boy around here.

Trade him while is potential is still a bit of an unknown. Trade him before other teams realize he's nothing special. He doesn't have the same kind of balls-to-the-wall identity and character makeup that Cally, Dubi, Prust, Boyle, etc have. He doesn't really fit into this team's identity. He just doesn't. He's a good player. But he's totally replaceable, and especially expendable when we're talking about one of the best playmakers in the game in Brad Richards. It's a joke that some of you even have to THINK about this.
Agreed. I don't see him becoming more than a second line center. I'd include him in a trade for Richards.

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02-26-2011, 07:10 PM
  #760
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Anisimov is by far our best defensive forward. He's not flashy at all, but ******* is he impressive.

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02-26-2011, 07:13 PM
  #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
This is Boyler's first season where he's looked like a legitimate NHL talent.

If I had to choose right now, i'd choose Arty because he's been consistent in what he is- Boyle can go back to being a joke next season if he doesn't work his ass off.

I'd rather if we kept both, though.
Anisimov is and always will be better than boyle.

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02-26-2011, 07:16 PM
  #762
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I think people have to stop including Gilroy in trade proposals. I mean, he's making 1.75M, and he's an RFA. That means the qualifying offer for him has to be a 10% raise which puts him at almost 2M$? This is for a guy who really doesn't do anything very well. He not good enough defensively to be a shutdown guy, he's not offensive minded enough to play the PP, what does he bring that makes him worth 2M? So a team is going to trade for him to NOT qualify him when they could just watch us not qualify him and sign him for about 500k this summer? Really, the kid's best shot at sticking in the NHL is to play 4th line checking role wing, who's versatile enough to fill in in the event a guy gets injured or thrown out of the game. I just don't think he's a chip that anyone wants unless we have to send some expiring salary to get the deal under the cap.

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02-26-2011, 07:17 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
And that's why when you hear the notion of people signing Boyle for a multi-year deal is asinine.

Many have the broken belief that this is just the beginning of Brian Boyle's development, when this could just as easily be his plateau or peak.



While Boyle's size and reach/wingspan are fantastic in PK situations, Boyle is no where nearly as talented defensively as Anisimov. Artem is not flashy, but his defensive game is miles ahead.
Sorry but I disagree, anisimov is very underrated defensively, I will give you that but he is not as strong around the crease and down low as Boyle is against opponents and he is not as good on face-offs. Boyle is only going to get better, he was a converted defenseman and can score goals. For the poster who doesnt want to pay Boyle for one good season to have it not be the norm, Boyle won't get more than 2 million tops! Very well deserved for 20 goals and all the time he has logged. He
deserves it and is way more a vital piece of this teams success more than anisimov IMO.

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02-26-2011, 07:20 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
I think people have to stop including Gilroy in trade proposals. I mean, he's making 1.75M, and he's an RFA. That means the qualifying offer for him has to be a 10% raise which puts him at almost 2M$? This is for a guy who really doesn't do anything very well. He not good enough defensively to be a shutdown guy, he's not offensive minded enough to play the PP, what does he bring that makes him worth 2M? So a team is going to trade for him to NOT qualify him when they could just watch us not qualify him and sign him for about 500k this summer? Really, the kid's best shot at sticking in the NHL is to play 4th line checking role wing, who's versatile enough to fill in in the event a guy gets injured or thrown out of the game. I just don't think he's a chip that anyone wants unless we have to send some expiring salary to get the deal under the cap.
To fit Richards we are going to have to move some salary if we really have a chance of getting him. Gilroy could be flipped in a Richards deal or maybe to a team that is looking to add a d-man maybe the sharks maybe leafs or even nucks. Someone will have to be moved.

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02-26-2011, 07:20 PM
  #765
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I think it's difficult right now to judge where Boyle will go from here.

He's slowed down in the last month (though so did the rest of the team) so that coupled with his age and history kind of makes you doubt whether he can improve or even repeat this season's success.

Anisimov on the other hand has improved every single year since his draft, and is 4 years younger and has more raw talent than Boyle. He's inconsistent, for sure, but he's only 22, and you've got to hope that he matures over the next few years and the flashes we see become more sustained.

Anisimov is also very good defensively, and I think the claims that he's soft are overrated. He gets rocked sometimes out there and doesn't really seem to mind it.

I think his ceiling probably is a 2nd line center. But why is that considered a bad thing and/or a reason to ship him out? It's not like we're overflowing with top-6 talent.

Anyway, I guess I'd rather put money on Anismov steadily progressing over Boyle doing the same right now, but I could see how someone would think differently.

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02-26-2011, 07:29 PM
  #766
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Sorry but I disagree, anisimov is very underrated defensively, I will give you that but he is not as strong around the crease and down low as Boyle is against opponents and he is not as good on face-offs. Boyle is only going to get better, he was a converted defenseman and can score goals. For the poster who doesnt want to pay Boyle for one good season to have it not be the norm, Boyle won't get more than 2 million tops! Very well deserved for 20 goals and all the time he has logged. He
deserves it and is way more a vital piece of this teams success more than anisimov IMO.
Brian Boyle was a Center put in on defense, not a converted defensemen. He last played defense as a position for a stint when he was 12.

In BC, York used Boyle on defense during the PK, and then moved him to defense when Sneep and Aiello were hurt late in the season.

I commend Boyle on the work he's done this year, but your hopes are overly optimistic. Shaq would be stronger downlow against players as well, that comes with his size.

Boyle is a player who has doubled his shots and shooting percentage this year. And his shot hasn't really improved. If you break up Boyle's numbers into 5 game splits, his numbers don't hold up. I would love a 30+ goal PF, but Boyle most likely will never develop further.

Boyle and Anisimov are two different sets of players, and while you may prefer Boyles game, you shouldn't do it by discounting the skill level of Anisimov.

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02-26-2011, 07:32 PM
  #767
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There is no god but the Lord God.
Him alone do I worship.
Him alone do I adore.

Back to the biz of mortals..
The guys running the show have a right to insist on the post a link to a rumor.

As to all the threads about a big Avs deal, possibly Stastny,
and my basis for same are those threads and any links already posted therein,
that could be fab if we can overpay slightly with 1B guys like Boyle, Girardi +, and not 1A guys (Anisimov, Staal, etc.)

Any other interesting things on the radar as we approach end of the trade deadline?

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02-26-2011, 07:32 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by Pugs35 View Post
I think it's difficult right now to judge where Boyle will go from here.

He's slowed down in the last month (though so did the rest of the team) so that coupled with his age and history kind of makes you doubt whether he can improve or even repeat this season's success.

Anisimov on the other hand has improved every single year since his draft, and is 4 years younger and has more raw talent than Boyle. He's inconsistent, for sure, but he's only 22, and you've got to hope that he matures over the next few years and the flashes we see become more sustained.

Anisimov is also very good defensively, and I think the claims that he's soft are overrated. He gets rocked sometimes out there and doesn't really seem to mind it.

I think his ceiling probably is a 2nd line center. But why is that considered a bad thing and/or a reason to ship him out? It's not like we're overflowing with top-6 talent.

Anyway, I guess I'd rather put money on Anismov steadily progressing over Boyle doing the same right now, but I could see how someone would think differently.
Come on man. Do we want a guy who gets rocked and doesn't mind it? Does Anisimov ever ROCK anyone? That's the issue. It's not whether or not he can take physicality. It's does he ever finish a god damn check? No, he very rarely does. And his "defensive prowess" is overrated. He's a good defensive center. That's it. He's not close to being in the Selke discussion, as some make it out to be.

He's improved every year? Really? Sure he improved from his first AHL season to the second, but I think he was better last year than he is this year. He's become a pure floater most nights. The fact that he doesn't take chances, and rarely tries to create anything with the puck doesn't equate to "great defensive forward." It just means he doesn't create anything with the puck on his stick. He's also pretty slow by NHL standards, and doesn't use his size effectively enough on either side of the puck. His attitude doesn't fit perfectly with the identity of this team. That's ok. Not everyone has to be a Cally / Dubi type, but it makes him more expendable, and it makes me value Boyle more because he's become such a leader for us this year. Boyle is leading the team in goals. Anisimov is leading the team in floating.

Raw talent? Yes, Anisimov has more than Boyle. But raw talent doesn't mean jack in the NHL if you aren't able to consistently use it to PRODUCE. See: Zherdev. Boyle does more with less, and he HITS. Boyle makes things happen, despite not being any sort of a playmaker. (see: last night's game vs the caps where Boyle chips the puck past the defender, and beats the defender to the puck behind the net, then chips it out to Sauer who beautifully feeds EC for his first goal of the game.)

I see us finding another Anisimov through the draft or even a cheap replacement through free agency a lot easier than finding another 6'7" guy who can score 20+ goals (he'll likely finish this season with 25-30, but he's at 20 right now with about 19 games to go), be a physical presence, play center or wing, penalty kill, powerplay, stick up for his teammates, skate the way Boyle does now, and the versatility to play anywhere in the lineup on a given night.

Anisimov is going to be a NHLer for a long time. I just don't think he's anything special. Stepan has "it." He fits in with this team's identity. Anisimov stands out as a softer, hesitant player who would rather float and wait for his teammates to make something happen rather than going out and trying to create something himself.

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02-26-2011, 07:33 PM
  #769
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Wow I cant believe people want to keep Boyle over Anisimov. Arty is already a better player than Boyle and has a much higher ceiling. He is going to be very good when he gets stronger. If Dallas was interested I would include Boyle in a package for Richards rather than Arty. Sell him while his value is high.

I dont see Boyle moving to the wing either. Whose spot is he going to take in the future? On the left side we have Dubi, Wolski with Kreider coming. On the right side we have Gabby, Cally, Zucc and Thomas in the future.


Last edited by XLJ: 02-26-2011 at 07:38 PM.
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02-26-2011, 07:35 PM
  #770
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I think his ceiling probably is a 2nd line center. But why is that considered a bad thing and/or a reason to ship him out? It's not like we're overflowing with top-6 talent.
We're not looking to dump him. He can be traded for someone that is a legit 1st line center. In other words, we can improve the position for the next 3-5 years.

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02-26-2011, 07:37 PM
  #771
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Brad Richards will never cost 0 assets. Any thoughts of that is being greedy and unrealistic.

With Dallas winning today, and quite possibly needing the playoff and home game revenue, I don't think Nieuwendyk will find the deal he really wants before Monday.

However, if they cannot get Brad Richards signed to a longterm deal, he will surely be traded before the draft. There is 0% chance that Dallas gets nothing for him. It took GMs a few years to learn how to work with the current CBA, but more and more teams are learning how to get assets. Dallas will not be left emptyhanded.

If the Rangers can't get BR over the weekend, they will still need to put together a package, albeit a much smaller one, to get his rights at the draft.
Yes about zero assets. You always have to at least meet, if not exceed, competition's bid.

However the late concussion changes the situation entirely for the moment.
See high risk/high reward Christian Thomas as being fair for a damaged rental who may or may not pull it together.

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02-26-2011, 07:41 PM
  #772
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Wow I cant believe people want to keep Boyle over Anisimov. Arty is already a better player than Boyle and has a much higher ceiling. He is going to be very good when he gets stronger. If Dallas was interested I would include Boyle in a package for Richards rather than Arty. Sell him while his value is high.

I dont see Boyle moving to the wing either. Who spot is he going to take in the future? On the left side we have Dubi, Wolski with Kreider coming. On the right side we have Gabby, Cally, Zucc and Thomas in the future.
Agree w/the bold.
Boyle may grow further than he has this year, but AA has way more upside.
Would not deal Boyle for concussed Richards.

Suggest part of package for Stastny, if that's possible.
not looking to show him the door but would be ok with moving him now for upgrade...

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02-26-2011, 07:55 PM
  #773
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Watching HNIC they made a good point. Would Dallas trade Richards within their own division to a team they are tied with in points and battling with for a playoff spot?

They said the Rangers think they can accommodate Richards even with the addition of McCabe.

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02-26-2011, 08:03 PM
  #774
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Saying our second is untouchable and Washingtons second is for the taking is like saying you would sleep with a 50 year old but not a 51 year old.
Its nitpicking, sure.

If the 50 year old looks like Heather Lockleer and the 51 year old looks like Rosan Bar.

I guess you could make that analogy.

What if one pick is 5-6 slots higher or more? It doesn't seem like it makes a difference, but it may, if the Rangers have their heart set on someone near that pick.

Just saying, I'd always tend to keep the higher pick.

Is it a deal breaker, no. I probably shouldn't have listed it.

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02-26-2011, 08:21 PM
  #775
wolfgaze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
Anisimov is by far our best defensive forward. He's not flashy at all, but ******* is he impressive.
Come on, he's not that impressive... He's quite inconsistent with his play generally... You notice a player who backchecks like Callahan much more, especially in the neutral zone...

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