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M. Staal, Dubinsky, and Stepan

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Old
02-24-2011, 07:00 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
Hes a 15-20 goal scorer now? What makes you think he wont get better. I wouldn't trade him for anything less than an elite player. Let alone a guy who is injured, aging and a FA in the offseason.
literally everyone alive is aging. and I would personally say that Richards is an elite player, he's an 80-90 point centreman who bumps up his production in the playoffs. but i understand your point, he's coming to the end of his prime and looking to cash in.

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Old
02-24-2011, 07:02 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by gump116 View Post
According to Brooks, this is what Nieuwendyk reportedly asked for Richards. I couldn't see the rangers realistically trading all three players in one deal, but what could this package get? Is it enough for Crosby? Ovechkin? Stamkos? Doughty?
Let's say this: Given that Richards will have been out for over 2 weeks with a concussion at the time of the deadline, Nieuwendyk would be beyond fortunate to get any one of the three players in the thread title.

You simply cannot expect any team to pony up 3 major assets for a player who may not play a single game. And there is absolutely no way Dallas can prove Richards is healthy if he doesn't play in that last game before the deadline (which they've already said he won't).

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Old
02-24-2011, 07:24 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by TheStu View Post
Easily be as good as Stastny? Seriously can people just not do math? Or are they unable to spot skill without flash.

Here's some math for you that I posted in another thread.

I was sick of all the bull crap being spewed over Stastny not putting up good numbers, so I ran them myself. I took all active players who have scored above 300 points in their career, and found their career PPG.

Results:
1. Sidney Crosby 21. Anze Kopitar
2. Alex Ovechkin 22. Jarome Iginla
3. Evgeni Malkin 23. Eric Staal
4. Teemu Selanne 24. Marian Gaborik
5. Dany Heatley 25. Marc Savard
6. Nicklas Backstrom 26. Patrik Elias
7. Joe Thornton 27. Vincent Lecavalier
8. Ilya Kovalchuk 28. Milan Hejduk
9. Jason Spezza 29. Doug Weight
10. Pavel Datsyuk 30. Martin Havlat
11. Daniel Alfredsson 31. Alex Tanguay
12. Henrik Zetterberg 32. Rick Nash
13. Ryan Getzlaf 33. Henrik Sedin
14. Paul Stastny 34. Derek Roy
15. Mark Recchi 35. Daniel Sedin
16. Brad Richards 36. Zach Parise
17. Mike Modano 37. Thomas Vanek
18. Marian Hossa 38. Ales Hemsky
19. Alexander Semin 39. Ray Whitney
20. Martin St Louis 40. Danny Briere
Skewered Stat.

Of all of the players after Stastny...

Richards, Hossa, St. Louis, Kopitar, Iginla, Staal, Gaborik, Savard, Nash, Sedin, Parise, Vanek, and Briere are all better players.

Recchi, Whitney, and Modano are in the twilight of their careers.

Semin and Roy are debatable.

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Old
02-24-2011, 07:47 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
Threads like this bother me even though they are hypothetical. You are essentially taking our 3 most important pieces of our core (minus lundqvist) and trying to put a value on them. Regardless of what you think they may be worth the rangers wouldnt be WILLLING to trade them for anything less than a Crosby, OV or Stamkos.

So please understand, these guys are not getting dealt. Stepan and Staal are going to be the faces of this franchise for years while Dubinsky is a great supporting player.

Rangers finally have a good thing going, there not going to **** it up that easily.
What good thing is that?

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:18 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Hell Yeah!!! View Post
What good thing is that?
A bunch of promising young kids. For the first time in a long time we have a prospect pool that goes beyond one player. And we have a team that is making a run at the playoffs, when they are also the 6th youngest team in the NHL.

They have a lot of good things going, you would know this if you knew anything about the team.

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:30 PM
  #31
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Its worth Malkin in terms of value. Whether Pittsburgh would want to trade him is an entirely different story...
I mean look what Goligoski got. Dmen get a premium. This gives an idea of what Staal is worth...

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:32 PM
  #32
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I think all 3 of them(Stepan, Dubi, Staal) would only get us Liles....hahaha

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:42 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStu View Post
Easily be as good as Stastny? Seriously can people just not do math? Or are they unable to spot skill without flash.

Here's some math for you that I posted in another thread.

I was sick of all the bull crap being spewed over Stastny not putting up good numbers, so I ran them myself. I took all active players who have scored above 300 points in their career, and found their career PPG.
Easy buddy. It's not like I said Stastny is chopped liver. Stepan's game is fairly similar though, they were drafted at a similar position, probably to pretty similar expectations and Stepan has jumped in to the NHL when no one expected him to make the team and had himself a very good season on a team that struggles to score goals. Saying Stepan might easily be as good as Stastny isn't a slight on Stastny; it's saying that Stepan looks like he might be something special and there's no point in giving up a kid who could potentially match Stastny's production in a couple of years PLUS a gritty two-way 60 point (home grown, heart and soul) winger PLUS a stud #1 d-man for Stastny plus... Liles.

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:45 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
Easy buddy. It's not like I said Stastny is chopped liver. Stepan's game is fairly similar though, they were drafted at a similar position, probably to pretty similar expectations and Stepan has jumped in to the NHL when no one expected him to make the team and had himself a very good season on a team that struggles to score goals. Saying Stepan might easily be as good as Stastny isn't a slight on Stastny; it's saying that Stepan looks like he might be something special and there's no point in giving up a kid who could potentially match Stastny's production in a couple of years PLUS a gritty two-way 60 point (home grown, heart and soul) winger PLUS a stud #1 d-man for Stastny plus... Liles.
Agreed. Stepan has been compared to Stastny before. That is probably his upside.

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:51 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRfan68 View Post
Agreed. Stepan has been compared to Stastny before. That is probably his upside.
Yep, in my opinion his downside is a 55-60 point suitable 2nd line center. Yes, quality over quantity is generally a good rule, but even if Stepan NEVER lives up to Stastny quality, I don't give up 60 point Stepan + 60 point Dubinsky + MARC EFFING STAAL for 80+ point Stastny + Liles. Ever.

And the point of my original response that he got upset at was that saying Stepan + Dubinsky + Staal is the kind of package that gets you Stastny + Liles is beyond ridiculous.

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:54 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
Yep, in my opinion his downside is a 55-60 point suitable 2nd line center. Yes, quality over quantity is generally a good rule, but even if Stepan NEVER lives up to Stastny quality, I don't give up 60 point Stepan + 60 point Dubinsky + MARC EFFING STAAL for 80+ point Stastny + Liles. Ever.

And the point of my original response that he got upset at was that saying Stepan + Dubinsky + Staal is the kind of package that gets you Stastny + Liles is beyond ridiculous.
The biggest thing is people don't recognize Staal's value. Staal's accomplished more than EJ and look what EJ fetched.

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Old
02-24-2011, 08:55 PM
  #37
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Kovalchuk + Henrique + Josefson + 2nd

Jack Johnson, Justin Williams, Hickey, Wayne Simmonds

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Old
02-24-2011, 09:03 PM
  #38
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Seems like perfect value for Malkin.

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Old
02-24-2011, 09:07 PM
  #39
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i wouldn't trade that package even if Richards wasn't a UFA this off season.

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Old
02-24-2011, 09:19 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Turnstyles View Post
Easily Malkin. Probably not Crosby or Stamkos. Maybe Doughty.
Probably Malkin.

Certainly not Crosby nor Stamkos. Shero and Yzerman would hang up the phone.

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Old
02-24-2011, 09:20 PM
  #41
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Sounds like a good package for Scott Gomez

Would be hard to trade him though....

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Old
02-24-2011, 09:33 PM
  #42
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Brad Richards

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Old
02-24-2011, 09:45 PM
  #43
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I really don't think you could say those guys for any ONE player. It puts too many gaps in your team that one person couldn't fill...except maybe Crosby.

The package coming back would be for two mid high level players.

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Old
02-24-2011, 10:04 PM
  #44
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We sure Brooks didn't misunderstand and it was one of those players for Richards? That would be closer to realistic.

That is unless it was a go-away kind of demand from Dallas.

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Old
02-24-2011, 10:18 PM
  #45
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B.Dubs, Staal, and Stepan are all worth far more to the NYR than they are on the open market.

Staal might actually have equal value on the open market, considering he's young, offensively talented, physical, and has worked hard enough defensively to become a premier shut down top pairing guy. PP, PK, 5v5, and 4v4, Staal would be a huge benefit regardless of where he played.

Stepan is a rookie. Comparing him without a body of work is sort of weak, but for people who watch the NYR, his talent is obvious. He's as crafty as a Skinner, slick passer like Burmistrov, plays a two way game, never "forgets" to finish his check, or bothers throwing a weak check just for the staff, and drives the net without having the puck. On a team with bonafide wingers, the sky would've been the limit for Stepan's rookie campaign.

B. Dubs is definitely a classic case of being more valuable to the NYR than he would be on the open market. He's got some flash to his game, and a great skating stride, is constantly physical, and will drop'em to stick up for teammates. The fact that he never plays a perimeter game also solidifies him as about as legit a power forward as there is in the NHL. But he's missed games in each of his last non-rookie seasons, and that has skewed his numbers. Followers of the NYR find it impossible the guy doesn't have massive value.

Valuing the very core of this franchise is impossible in terms of trades, and player comparisons. The three of them could be added to any NHL franchise, and would make that team better in the long term.

As far as trading the three of them for a Richards rental, that's just bizarre. There isn't a doubt in my mind that Richards is a ton more talented than Dubinsky, but would he make all that much of a bigger impact on this team? I really don't think so, considering what you'd gain minus what we'd lose. We really don't know what we have in Stepan yet to even evalute his inclusion in the trade, but we've seen enough to know that him plus the other 2 is massive overpayment.

And this might be just my opinion, but looking at the Atlantic Division over the next few years, plus the East on the whole, and there's no way in hell I'd ever move Staal for Richards, even straight up.

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Old
02-25-2011, 01:36 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Skewered Stat.

Of all of the players after Stastny...

Richards, Hossa, St. Louis, Kopitar, Iginla, Staal, Gaborik, Savard, Nash, Sedin, Parise, Vanek, and Briere are all better players.

Recchi, Whitney, and Modano are in the twilight of their careers.

Semin and Roy are debatable.
It is being "skewered", by you. Is it skewed? No. My only implication was that when people say Stastny isn't putting up the numbers of the other "elites" they are talking out of their rears. It helps the people out there who can't recognize a great hockey player without a flashy highlight reel to recognize.

BTW, I don't think Stastny and Liles would net the three mentioned in this thread. However, the mention of Stepan easily being Stastny, and the ridiculous trade proposals in the other Avs-Rangers forum sparked my interest here.

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Old
02-25-2011, 01:57 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotmonte View Post
I would trade Stepan for the right price. I like the kid A LOT but I am scared its a freshman high.

He could be a stud in the future, he could be a 15-20 goal scorer in the future. Who KNOWS. But his value is SKY HIGH and with Richards out there, I would at least check into it.

Stepan
Grachev
Rangers 1st in 2011
Rangers 2nd in 2011
Washingtons 2nd in 2001

FOR a SIGNED Richards

?
Didnt know Nathan Paetsch was still in the NHL.......

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Old
02-25-2011, 03:26 AM
  #48
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From a Rangers perspective there is no way in hell that they're going to move any of Dubinsky, Stepan, Staal for a concussed Richards who may not even play again this year--and not when there's a question mark where he's going to play next year. Nieuwendyk no doubt if he moves him will want to get the best deal for him--IMO he's already taken a shellacking on the Neal, Niskanen for Goligoski deal. To be honest it comes down to how confident he is that Richards will re-sign in Dallas otherwise he's going to lose him in the future for no return. Back to the Rangers perspective--clearing enough cap space etc. to land Richards which brings us to Richards himself. What is he going to do? Question marks galore.

There's no reason to get upset at Nieuwendyk. He can be as ridiculous as he wants--sometimes it's a way of being crafty. Pretty much I think what he's saying is he's not going to be trading him to the Rangers--and it may be because he feels if he does he's lost any chance of getting him back. He might trade him somewhere else though for a lesser return.

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Old
02-25-2011, 05:01 AM
  #49
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All you ppl saying Malkin, are high. He's worth more than that. His value is around the same as Ovy/Crosby.

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Old
02-25-2011, 06:26 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
All you ppl saying Malkin, are high. He's worth more than that. His value is around the same as Ovy/Crosby.
We shall see this summer, I have a really big feeling that Pitt moves a C.

If it were me, I would keep Crosby/Staal and move Malkin for packages like that or similar + 2 1st rd picks.

A smart move like that would turn Pitt into a monster power imo

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