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02-25-2011, 12:26 PM
  #26
Holy Jokinen
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Originally Posted by Haj View Post
A 4-5 year plan ? That is retarded. Tampa turned their team around in 2 years. The Flyers also managed to remake their team in two years.
Tampa basically doesn't count because they had the first overall, and got elite talent in Stamkos. Plus, they already had a ridiculous core of St. Louis and Lecavlier.

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02-25-2011, 12:27 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
Dale Tallon is going to pick a year for this rebuild. Like he did in Chicago. He will rely on later picks early mixed with mid- to early-picks and then gun for early picks in the later stages of the rebuild.

My guess is between a 4-5 year plan.

That means that he will be looking to stockpile most of the picks for the 2013 Entry draft, with a good portion falling in the 2012 draft.

Moving Weiss is a possibility but not a great one. That being said, Tallon also wants to put his rubber stamp on this team, and he has spent all year evaluating the talent pools.

A lot of it will come down to whether Weiss is a Dale Tallon type player.

My guess is yes, and Tallon only moves Weiss for overpayment, but I could be wrong as I don't know what Tallon's plan is yet.

Teams that I would wager Tallon is most interested in getting picks from for the 2013 season:
MIN
SJS
CGY
ANA
BOS

Roughly in that order.
This is just not true.

His rebuild is based around the 2010 and 2011 drafts. Maybe the 2012 drafts too. He had 3 1st and 3 2nds in the 2010. That was the main draft. 2011 will be a little less heavy, but still imperative. 2012 may be incorporated as well simply because unlike his previous rebuild, he won't have a Kane or Toews step in and lift the team a little. Gudbranson isn't that type of impact player.

If Tallon has very high picks in 2013, he won't be the GM anymore.

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02-25-2011, 01:09 PM
  #28
adam graves
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Originally Posted by Holy Jokinen View Post
Tampa basically doesn't count because they had the first overall, and got elite talent in Stamkos. Plus, they already had a ridiculous core of St. Louis and Lecavlier.
HJ, whats the tampa coach doing right? Hes getting accalades on sirius for coach of the year...

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02-25-2011, 01:23 PM
  #29
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HJ, whats the tampa coach doing right? Hes getting accalades on sirius for coach of the year...
Coaches whose names are thrown around for the Jack Adams tend to be those coaches who get an entire group of guys to buy in and execute a system that is a large part of the team's success. And Boucher has definitely done this. It's less about his top line players, and more about bottom 6 type guys who work hard and compliment the top line players by being pretty responsible in their own end.

That being said, the personnel on that team is very strong, with guys like Purcell and Bergenheim, and now some good acquisitions on the back end, and of course, Roloson, who has been pretty stellar since his arrival in Tampa.

Depending on how well they do in the playoffs will probably determine how real his chances are of getting the Jack Adams, but he's not my favorite, that's for sure.

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02-25-2011, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
This is just not true.

His rebuild is based around the 2010 and 2011 drafts. Maybe the 2012 drafts too. He had 3 1st and 3 2nds in the 2010. That was the main draft. 2011 will be a little less heavy, but still imperative. 2012 may be incorporated as well simply because unlike his previous rebuild, he won't have a Kane or Toews step in and lift the team a little. Gudbranson isn't that type of impact player.

If Tallon has very high picks in 2013, he won't be the GM anymore.
I agree.

After their 2 years of finishing in the bottom 5, the Blackhawks got 88 points the next year (2007-08) and got 104 points in 2008-09. If Tallon was serious about this team being in better shape than when he took over in Chicago, then at the very least that's the trajectory I expect us to take.

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02-25-2011, 01:31 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Holy Jokinen View Post
Coaches whose names are thrown around for the Jack Adams tend to be those coaches who get an entire group of guys to buy in and execute a system that is a large part of the team's success. And Boucher has definitely done this. It's less about his top line players, and more about bottom 6 type guys who work hard and compliment the top line players by being pretty responsible in their own end.

That being said, the personnel on that team is very strong, with guys like Purcell and Bergenheim, and now some good acquisitions on the back end, and of course, Roloson, who has been pretty stellar since his arrival in Tampa.

Depending on how well they do in the playoffs will probably determine how real his chances are of getting the Jack Adams, but he's not my favorite, that's for sure.
Thx i knew you would have Tampa insight. They said hes instituted a unique 1-2-2 system and does some other real original things. Not my knowledge base, so i defer to you.

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02-25-2011, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Thx i knew you would have Tampa insight. They said hes instituted a unique 1-2-2 system and does some other real original things. Not my knowledge base, so i defer to you.
Guy Boucher is the second coming of Jacques Lemaire... Should be one of the best ever when it's all said and done !

Awesome steal by Steve Yzerman !!

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02-25-2011, 02:13 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Holy Jokinen View Post
Tampa basically doesn't count because they had the first overall, and got elite talent in Stamkos. Plus, they already had a ridiculous core of St. Louis and Lecavlier.
Of course Tampa counts. Carolina drafted Jeff Skinner in the 1st Round, even though he wasn't expected put up number..he's been great. I believe the Flyers drafted Mike Richards 24th in the first round in 2005. The Panthers drafted Kenndal Mcardle 20th overall.
Elite talent can be found all through out the first round. Either we have bad luck, bad scouting, or bad player development.

If Dale Tallon is the GM we think he is he'll be able to acquire the right players via trades and the draft in shorter time frame than 4-5 years. This is where waiving Grabner hurts. He could have been our 2nd line scoring winger.

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02-25-2011, 02:40 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Haj View Post
Of course Tampa counts. Carolina drafted Jeff Skinner in the 1st Round, even though he wasn't expected put up number..he's been great. I believe the Flyers drafted Mike Richards 24th in the first round in 2005. The Panthers drafted Kenndal Mcardle 20th overall.
Elite talent can be found all through out the first round. Either we have bad luck, bad scouting, or bad player development.

If Dale Tallon is the GM we think he is he'll be able to acquire the right players via trades and the draft in shorter time frame than 4-5 years. This is where waiving Grabner hurts. He could have been our 2nd line scoring winger.
Can't compare across drafts.

Panthers drafted Anthony Stewart right after Mike Richards. Horton & Stewart - two busts in the first round of one of the best drafts in recent memory.

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02-25-2011, 02:54 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Haj View Post
Of course Tampa counts. Carolina drafted Jeff Skinner in the 1st Round, even though he wasn't expected put up number..he's been great. I believe the Flyers drafted Mike Richards 24th in the first round in 2005. The Panthers drafted Kenndal Mcardle 20th overall.
Elite talent can be found all through out the first round. Either we have bad luck, bad scouting, or bad player development.

If Dale Tallon is the GM we think he is he'll be able to acquire the right players via trades and the draft in shorter time frame than 4-5 years. This is where waiving Grabner hurts. He could have been our 2nd line scoring winger.
Drafting was actually the lesser of my two points. The main point was Tampa had two-thirds of a top line already in place before they drafted Stamkos. We have 2/3s of a second line. In a weak FA year, and a year in which we still want to acquire lots of picks, i don't see how we're going to ice a playoff team next year unless we make some pretty magnificent moves.

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02-25-2011, 02:58 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Haj View Post
A 4-5 year plan ? That is retarded. Tampa turned their team around in 2 years. The Flyers also managed to remake their team in two years.
Tampa spent money on what - at the time - we all thought were ridiculous contracts. They also had assets that could be moved for real value. They also hit the jackpot with Stamkos. The Flyers also had assets to move. The Panthers lack that.

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02-25-2011, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Acadmus View Post
Tampa spent money on what - at the time - we all thought were ridiculous contracts. They also had assets that could be moved for real value. They also hit the jackpot with Stamkos. The Flyers also had assets to move. The Panthers lack that.
Right, it's a big difference when the cupboard is full compared to our organization, which lacked assets at both the NHL and developmental level. Then the assets we did have we blew when it came time to trade them (i.e. Luongo, Bouwmeester and I'd even add Horton depending on how Howden plays out).

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02-25-2011, 03:38 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by FlaPanthers7 View Post
Right, it's a big difference when the cupboard is full compared to our organization, which lacked assets at both the NHL and developmental level. Then the assets we did have we blew when it came time to trade them (i.e. Luongo, Bouwmeester and I'd even add Horton depending on how Howden plays out).
I think you mean how Bjugstad plays out...Horton got us the #15 (which turned into the #19) and how we drafted Bjugstad. Ballard was how we ended up with Howden with the #26 pick but yeah you can add Ballard to that list then too.

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