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ATD 2011 Draft Thread VI

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Old
02-26-2011, 10:33 PM
  #276
VanIslander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
That's quite a quote on him from Derek Holmes, eh?
From research you provided last draft. You indicated it was in a scouting report for Scotty Bowman, who later re-affirmed that Helmut was one of the players they needed to key in on. I assume that was for the 1979 Challenge Cup against NHLers that Bowman was coaching? Balderis got a goal and an assist in the three-game Soviet win, so I guess scouting didn't make a big difference.

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02-26-2011, 10:34 PM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Johnny Gottselig, LW

Full bio to come with quotes when I get to my files. Here's a short version.

Style
Tall and lanky (5'11, 158 pounds)
Best stickhandler of his time (multiple newspaper articles, I'll provide them in the full bio)
Good defensively - solid at picking up his check, and noted for ragging the puck as a penalty killer.
Captained the Hawks for 5 seasons, and was a Cup-winning captain in 1938.

Regular season scoring

Top 10 scorers, 1931-1940

Marty Barry - 353 pts in 456 games
Busher Jackson - 353 points in 444 games
Charlie Conacher - 346 points in 375 games
Nels Stewart - 334 points in 442 games
Johnny Gottselig - 302 points in 445 games
Cecil Dillon - 298 points in 453 games
Hooley Smith - 285 points in 456 games
Paul Thompson - 278 points in 409 games
Dit Clapper - 275 points in 459 games
Syd Howe - 268 points in 422 games
  • Consistent second-tier scorer for a decade.
  • Usually first or second on his team in scoring. His teams were about average over his career, and were usually low-scoring, tight checking teams.
  • Rarely played with ATD-level linemates

Playoff Scoring
One of the leaders in playoff points for the 1930s. Played on two Stanley Cup winners (1934 and 1938). Led one in playoff goals and points, led the other in playoff goals.
Nice one. The minute I come to the conclusion that he's the best scoring line winger remaining, you take him. Not surprised.

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Old
02-26-2011, 10:36 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Don Luce for raleh.

Someone PM next.
Next person (Modo) PMed.

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Old
02-26-2011, 10:43 PM
  #279
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Dawson City selects Vladimir Shadrin.

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02-26-2011, 10:51 PM
  #280
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Dawson City selects Vladimir Shadrin.
Wow, thought we'd be able to get him with one of our next two picks for sure. Nice choice.

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Old
02-27-2011, 12:11 AM
  #281
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JFA will be up at 5:43 AM EST if jkrx gets skipped.

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02-27-2011, 01:00 AM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I should have said defensively responsible instead of two-way.....but it was early in the morning and I was literally still drunk from the night before, cut me a break

But yes, he's at the very least defensively responsible, probably not a "two-way" guy though in the ATD sense of the word. I was really hoping no one would catch that little mistake in there.
I think he's mediocre defensively, on the scale of a first line centre.

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Old
02-27-2011, 03:13 AM
  #283
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Quote:
#8 Ron Ellis RW
Here's one of the puckwinning wingers available who was a better all-around even-strength player than Keith Tkachuk. Ellis' even strength goal-scoring finishes:

14th (64-65), 14th (66-67), 4th (67-68), 3rd (69-70), 14th (70-71)

...are not far below Tkachuk's, and he was a better skater and a far, far superior defensive player.


Last edited by Sturminator: 02-27-2011 at 04:29 AM.
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02-27-2011, 04:26 AM
  #284
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Winnipeg Falcons selects: Bob Nystrom

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Old
02-27-2011, 05:15 AM
  #285
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It's blatantly obvious those of you living in the East don't get to watch Henrik Sedin and his linemate very much. If you did I wouldn't have just read some of the garbage I did. Is he off the board and a bit of a reach in the mid 300's at this point? Yeah probably but he is an elite playmaker in the NHL since the lockout, a span of 6 years. I believe only Crosby and Thornton have more assists than him over the past 6 years and he may have even surpassed one of them.

And an ''undeserving Hart'' has propelled an already overrated player? Whatever helps you sleep at night. He lead the league in scoring and stepped up his play immensely during the 20 games he was playing with foreign linemates.

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02-27-2011, 06:24 AM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
It's blatantly obvious those of you living in the East don't get to watch Henrik Sedin and his linemate very much. If you did I wouldn't have just read some of the garbage I did. Is he off the board and a bit of a reach in the mid 300's at this point? Yeah probably but he is an elite playmaker in the NHL since the lockout, a span of 6 years. I believe only Crosby and Thornton have more assists than him over the past 6 years and he may have even surpassed one of them.

And an ''undeserving Hart'' has propelled an already overrated player? Whatever helps you sleep at night. He lead the league in scoring and stepped up his play immensely during the 20 games he was playing with foreign linemates.
Not too mention that he has four top 10 assist finishes and three of them is in the top 3 and one win. This season he leads the league in assists and is top 3 in points. He is 48th in NHL in carreer assists per game and 7th amongst active players. I also believe he has only missed about 10 games since entering the NHL.

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Old
02-27-2011, 06:28 AM
  #287
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I thought Henrik Sedin was a good pick.

Too bad Vladimir Shadrin was taken, I was hoping we could get him at 355 or 366. He is arguably top250 player in my opinion.

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Old
02-27-2011, 06:33 AM
  #288
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I forgot to PM JFA so I should get a time punishment on my next pick instead of him. So he should have 2 hours extra and I should have 2 hours reduction on my next pick.

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Old
02-27-2011, 06:45 AM
  #289
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None of what you guys are saying here about Henrik Sedin is wrong; it's just that you obviously lack perspective on a lot of other players and that makes you overvalue the guys you know. It is to be expected.

Non-elite playmaking second line centers are probably the single easiest asset to acquire in the ATD. Sedin is arguably the best of the lower-end playmaking second line pivots, but where he was picked...he may end up being the worst value. We shall see.

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Old
02-27-2011, 07:09 AM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
It's blatantly obvious those of you living in the East don't get to watch Henrik Sedin and his linemate very much.
I do. I stay up to watch Sharks games, I can stay up to watch Canucks games. I make a point of getting a lot of games in for every team, especially against good teams like the Canucks.

"You don't watch our games" is the common trump card of people defending players on their own team, and kind of hypocritical, seeing as points totals is the only counter-argument you provide. If you're just going to go by points totals, who needs to watch games?

Quote:
If you did I wouldn't have just read some of the garbage I did. Is he off the board and a bit of a reach in the mid 300's at this point? Yeah probably but he is an elite playmaker in the NHL since the lockout, a span of 6 years.
I didn't read any superfluous criticisms of Sedin. "A bit of a reach" seems to sum up the opinions expressed.

Quote:
I believe only Crosby and Thornton have more assists than him over the past 6 years
Correct.

Quote:
and he may have even surpassed one of them.
In absolute terms he has passed Crosby but Crosby's been injured for long periods of time twice. Total assists is Thornton, then Sedin, then Crosby. Assists per game is Thornton, then Crosby, then Sedin.

Quote:
And an ''undeserving Hart'' has propelled an already overrated player? Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Why would that help anyone get sleep at night? You have much more reason to be biased than us. Getting angry only makes you look more biased.

Quote:
He lead the league in scoring and stepped up his play immensely during the 20 games he was playing with foreign linemates.
Should the Hart just automatically go to the Art Ross winner? Points do not perfectly measure offensive production, especially when you only lead by 3, and then you have to account the various other parts of the game.

Lots of players change linemates frequently. And he didn't "raise his game." His numbers went down while Daniel was out - he went down to a PPG pace and a 0 rating over that period.

Henrik Sedin is a very good player but I don't think he ranks as high as his points totals do for a few reasons:
- Cycling the puck increases the rate of secondary assists per goal and, consequently, the number of points per goal created.
- I think he's mediocre defensively at best. He can't check, he doesn't strip the puck well, and, like many playmakers, causes a lot of turnovers.
- Strangely, Kesler's line goes out on the ice against harder opposition. Most other star forwards in the league such as Toews, Datsyuk, Thornton, Crosby, and Ovechkin face the toughest lines on the other team.

There's five or six players and two or three forwards I'd have chosen for the Hart trophy last year ahead of him. You can say I just hate Sedin, but only by using the assumption that points is the only thing we can use to judge players and everyone who evaluates players lower than their points totals just arbitrarily hates them, an assumption which, if you made it, would reveal more about yourself than me.

All that being said I'm not sure Sedin was a bad pick. His Art Ross and Hart definitely rank low all-time but that's why he was the last Art Ross winner taken and one of the last Hart winners to go, and he put up a lot of consistently good but not great seasons in the years earlier, and he's an appreciating asset. Seems like a good fit for a pick in the mid 300s to me if a playmaking center is what you need. But I'm a rookie and appear to be ignorant to someone else the people here have in mind.


Last edited by Derick*: 02-27-2011 at 07:35 AM.
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Old
02-27-2011, 07:17 AM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
All that being said I'm not sure Sedin was a bad pick. His Art Ross and Hart definitely rank low all-time but that's why he was the last Art Ross winner taken...
As Yoda said: there is another.

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Old
02-27-2011, 07:18 AM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
I forgot to PM JFA so I should get a time punishment on my next pick instead of him. So he should have 2 hours extra and I should have 2 hours reduction on my next pick.
No worries. Give me about 20 minutes and i'll make my pick

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Old
02-27-2011, 07:33 AM
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Why are you laughing? Can you name me another Hart Trophy winner who has this?

Assists
2006-07 NHL 71 (4)
2007-08 NHL 61 (4)
2008-09 NHL 60 (8)
2009-10 NHL 83 (1)
2010-11 NHL 59 (1)

That's approaching Joe Thornton territory. And Sedin is way better in the playoffs than him.
I'm skeptical.

Seems to me the only reason Thornton has that reputation and Sedin doesn't is that the expectations on Thornton are higher because he's been an elite regular season player for longer.

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Old
02-27-2011, 07:37 AM
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
As Yoda said: there is another.
Then Vec's bio is incorrect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
With the 339th pick, the Inglewood Jacks will be selecting the only Art Ross Trophy winner left and the only Hart Trophy winner left from 1955-present: Henrik Sedin. Sedin will fit in nicely with our squad as a decent two-way center, but really where he will provide his spark is on the offensive end with his superior playmaking ability. More of a bio coming later on because I'm still a little drunk from last night and don't feel like writing one now.

(Hedberg and vancityluongo have been PMed)

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Old
02-27-2011, 07:46 AM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryhungryhippy View Post
Yeah, it became evident pretty early on that he doesn't really watch the Sedins regularly at all, and is more set on confirming his own biases than being reasonable. I don't agree with Henrik being a top 250 player either, I thought that was hyperbole on your part, but using the title Lord of Secondary Assists to degrade Henrik's game is just beyond laughable. MadArcand was the most vehemently opposed to Henrik's selection last year as well, he's still living in the cloud of ignorance that has plagued the Sedins for years.
Why is that laughable? He gets way more secondary assists than any other player in the league and secondary assists make up a much higher percentage of his points than any other high-scoring player in the league.

Just like m_b, more "you don't watch this star player on my team" and "these multiple people who have no reason to be biased at all each saying the same thing all irrationally hate this player I have reason to be biased for" and not a single fact or observation about Sedin's play.

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02-27-2011, 07:47 AM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
Then Vec's bio is incorrect.
You know, even before art ross trophy was awarded, there were players who led the league in points

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02-27-2011, 07:51 AM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
BUt my point is that we don't necessarily hold it against Sedin either which I felt he was. Sure there are better players in the league. When Hull won his Hart I think it's safe to say there were certainly better players in the league. But no one holds that against Hull. We can argue about it all we want but the people who watched him that year decided that in their opinion Henrik was the best player.
And fortunately in this case, we (or at least I) watched him too. Why even do things like ATDs if we're not allowed to disagree with the "experts" (i.e. the professional entertainers that vote for these awards)?

Quote:
I don't think they get bored and vote for someone else just to vote for someone else. Especially whenever Crosby only has 1 Hart already. If he deserved it, then he would have won it
Again, so the award voters are automatically right? As someone who reads the things people like Scott Burnside says on a regular basis I can hardly hold his votes as canon.

We also need to remember when appealing to authority that the total winner doesn't represent a consensus. Sedin didn't win the award by a very large margin. Even we assume that only, say, 25% of awards voters are either going for novelty or looking a nothing but points totals and the other 75% are informed, logical, and objective, that's more than enough for the other 75% to be significantly in favor of Crosby or Ovechkin.

Quote:
(by the way, this is coming from a diehard Pens fan).
And the person that just drafted Sedin.

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Old
02-27-2011, 07:52 AM
  #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
You know, even before art ross trophy was awarded, there were players who led the league in points
For the record, what I originally said that he corrected was "last Art Ross winner," so you should be telling him "you know, people who led in points before the Art Ross was introduced didn't technically win it"

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02-27-2011, 07:52 AM
  #299
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The Pittsburgh Bankers select D Bill Barilko

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Old
02-27-2011, 07:56 AM
  #300
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Can someone send the next GM a Pm please

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