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ATD 2011 Draft Thread VI

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Old
02-27-2011, 05:12 PM
  #351
DoMakc
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Can somebody take a list for 360th and 361st?

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02-27-2011, 05:13 PM
  #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
Can somebody take a list for 360th and 361st?
I pick right after you at 362; I can.

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Old
02-27-2011, 05:27 PM
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Tidewater selects G Roy Worters



1929 Hart Trophy
1931 Vezina Trophy
1932 2nd Team All-Star
1934 2nd Team All-Star

Legends of Hockey
Great pick. If I didn't get to nab Belfour when I did, I'd aim for getting Worters later. He goes way too late IMO, and is better than some goalies drafted even in late 100s.

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Old
02-27-2011, 06:08 PM
  #354
BillyShoe1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Great pick. If I didn't get to nab Belfour when I did, I'd aim for getting Worters later. He goes way too late IMO, and is better than some goalies drafted even in late 100s.
I really hope you don't think he's better than Holecek.

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Old
02-27-2011, 06:24 PM
  #355
overpass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I have Luce with an estimated 106 special teams points, giving him 448 ES points in 894 games. 0.50 PPG.

Up until 2006, Brind'Amour had 369 special teams points, so he had 612 ES points in 1187 games. 0.52 PPG. (at this point he was already older than Don Luce was when he retired)

Brind'Amour's era was mostly lower scoring than Luce's, and he did this over more games, even if you could say that "relative to era" that is about the same number of games.

On the other hand, Brind'Amour averaged about 15 ES minutes per game to that point, and Luce averaged an estimated 13.


EDIT: different spreadsheets, conflicting results. Luce had 85 career special teams points according to the HSP game sheets, but they are missing 1 SHG and 1 PPG, so I'm going to assume one assist for each as well. So 89 ST points, meaning he's at 0.52 per game himself.
I see you've covered Luce vs Brind'Amour: the even strength numbers.

Did Brind'Amour have better linemates? Ramsay and Gare were just as productive at even strength as Luce, it's not like he was dragging a couple of no-talent hacks around.

Luce also scored quite a bit more at home: the small rink fit his line's forechecking game very well. I don't think all his ES scoring translates to a normal sized rink.

I wouldn't ignore Brind'Amour's special teams contributions, either. I estimate he played the 6th most special teams minutes of any post-expansion forward (adjusted for team special teams minutes). He's behind Messier, Francis, Gretzky, Yzerman, and Sakic, and ahead of Gilmour and Oates.

His faceoff skill is the most valuable in special teams situations. He was also a good net presence and skilled at tipping the puck on the power play. He could definitely have a place on an ATD power play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryhungryhippy View Post
The maroons select rw. Frank finnigan. Good dfensive player with a couple top 10 scoring finishes who played a big role on some stanley cup winning teams.

Someoine pm the next guy please I'm on my phone at work. Thanks
Have you seen this site? It's the full text of a book by Finnigan's daughter on her father and the history of Ottawa hockey, and includes several interviews with Frank Finnigan and others.

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Old
02-27-2011, 07:57 PM
  #356
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Phew.. Lester Patrick bio finally done!

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...9&postcount=63

I hope you guys enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed putting the finishing touches on what seventies started!

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Old
02-27-2011, 07:57 PM
  #357
MadArcand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
I really hope you don't think he's better than Holecek.
You're just one position off regarding who I meant!

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Old
02-27-2011, 08:14 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
You're just one position off regarding who I meant!
As much as I like Grant Fuhr, I think he's overrated. He had a perennial offense/defense in front of him for the majority of his career.

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Old
02-27-2011, 08:15 PM
  #359
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I'll select...RW: Blair Russel

Pavelich-Backstrom-Russel is now formed

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Old
02-27-2011, 10:25 PM
  #360
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With 359th, the San Jose Sharks select...

- 27th in league history with 1 338 career points
- 13th in league history with 640 career goals

- 2nd in league history in single-season powerplay goals with 32
- 1st in league history with 274 career powerplay goals
- Two time leader in league powerplay goals (91-92, 92-93) (in a period competing with a prime Hull and Lemieux)

- Two time all-star (1990, 1994)
- Cup-winning captain





...LW, Dave Andreychuk!

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Old
02-27-2011, 10:29 PM
  #361
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Sweet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc
for 360th only:

1. Phil Goyette, C

for 361st:

1. Chuck Rayner, G

Thank you.
My pick very soon.

Edit: Next person (chaosrevovler) PMed.


Last edited by Leafs Forever: 02-27-2011 at 10:46 PM.
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Old
02-27-2011, 10:42 PM
  #362
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He burst onto the NHL scene with a 22-goal performance in 1977-78. The next year he exploded with 43 goals, and the following season he was teamed with Marcel Dionne and $$$$$$ on the "Triple Crown Line". This unit was among the best in the league. In addition to being the line's defensive conscience, he was the grinder who fended off the toughest checkers on the opposing team.- LOH
Quote:
Through hard work and gritty effort, Taylor never needed to fall back on his education as he managed to make the Kings and became the ultimate compliment to the greatest King ever, Marcel Dionne. With Dionne's incredibly wizardry, Taylor's career blossomed from a regular player to a first line star. Combined with $$$$$$, the trio was known as the Triple Crown line.

A fearsome body checker, Taylor became an almost as fearsome scorer, though highly underrated. Most people tend to pass off Taylor's offensive record as by-product of playing with Marcel Dionne, but in reality Taylor was a gift offensive player in his own right.

He was an excellent skater, agile for a big man and making up whatever he lacked in breakout speed with his incredible balance that made him almost impossible to knock down. He had great anticipation and opportunistic hands, able to work with Dionne as if the two were born to play with one another. In fact, Taylor was as much of an influence on Dionne's success as Dionne was on his.

The heart of his game was grinding up and down the right wall and in the corners. He would do the dirty work for his linemates, and often also act as their defensive conscience. He patrolled his wing with great strength and tenacity. Though big and strong, he was not much of a fighter.-Joe Pelletier
Immensely happy my gamble earlier payed off and I can grab this guy. Don't think much seperate him, in the regular season at least, to guys like Rick Tocchet and Kevin Stevens.



DAVE TAYLOR, RW

1 x Second Team AST RW(1981)

Top 10 Goals:
6th(1979)

Top 10 Assists:
7th(1979)
7th(1981)

Top 10 Points:
9th(1979)
5th(1981)
9th(1982)

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Old
02-27-2011, 11:01 PM
  #363
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Dave Taylor is a great pick now. Very good in corners, good enough defensively to be a competent defensive conscience on a scoring line. And he provides more offense than a lot of stereotypical "glue guys" who might be a a little better in the corners - and it's quite balanced between goals and assists.

Perfect second line glue guy in this.

Andreychuk won't provide all that much at even strength, but he's one of the best powerplay net presences in this thing... at least in the regular season.

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Old
02-27-2011, 11:03 PM
  #364
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Im regretting making that last trade I did. May have shot myself in the foot.

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Old
02-27-2011, 11:33 PM
  #365
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
You haven't even seen ANYTHING else I have, and you're already writing it off? What a wonderful historian YOU are!
Yes, pardon me for categorically dismissing the idea that Frank Patrick, whose own brother served on the HHOF selection committee for years and yet isn't in the HHOF, might have been the best player in all of Canada at the time of his retirement... (where's the old emoticon from chat.mapleleafs.com when you need one?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
I thought about picking Roy Worters instead of Connell , even EagleBelfour last year had both and put Worter as his 1st goalie , but I decided to go with the double cup winner that elevated his play in the playoff , and franckly , a 5-3 goalie is just down right hilarious.
His height didn't seem to hurt him back then.

Worters did just fine in the playoffs; he just couldn't singlehandedly carry a team there, when they couldn't score. He was an outstanding goalie, and a 3rd defenseman.

There is no doubt he was a better player than Connell, who was never voted one of the two best goalies in the league, or one of the five most vaulable players in the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I don't have Messier and other strong leaders at the same time. Done.
Haha, very funny, but I missed the part where the 1984, 1987, and 1991 Canada Cup teams imploded

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Here is an interesting take on the rover position:

The six-man game will be in vogue this season in Saskatchewan. It is as different from seven-man hockey as night is from day. Under the old style, the rover had to do the bulk of the checking back. In baseball parlance, it was the duty of the rover to back up every play. He had to check any man who got away from his cover; in short, he had to assume the responsibility for any weak spots on his team. One thing that characterizes a good rover was his ability to get goals off rebounds. Another way of putting it is that he almost had to play "inside home". He likewise had to go into the corner after stray pucks. He had to be an almost superhuman player. Every man in the history of hockey who made a name for himself as a rover had inhuman characteristics to a marked degree. Take for instance **********, of the old Ottawa silver seven; Russell Bowie of the old Montreal Victorias; Lester Patrick, formerly of the Wanderers, Renfrew, and now of the Coast League, *******, of the Wanderers, the undying Newsy Lalonde; Si Griffis, of Rat Portage; *********, of Ottawa and Wanderers; every one of these men were hockey machines, with the mechnical element eliminated and brains substituted. - Saskatoon Phoenix, Dec. 10, 1919
That has to be the best description of the position I have ever read.

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Old
02-27-2011, 11:43 PM
  #366
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Worter's one game loan to the Canadiens must have been painful for him to play behind a decent team for one night only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Worters did just fine in the playoffs; he just couldn't singlehandedly carry a team there, when they couldn't score. He was an outstanding goalie, and a 3rd defenseman.
Indeed. 2 of the 3 playoff games he won were by shutout. He lost a 2 game total goal series in 1929 1-0 .

I can't see any reason to believe he'd play worse in the playoffs then he did in the regular season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
I thought about picking Roy Worters instead of Connell , even EagleBelfour last year had both and put Worter as his 1st goalie , but I decided to go with the double cup winner that elevated his play in the playoff , and franckly , a 5-3 goalie is just down right hilarious.
I think Worters is the one player where adjusted height makes the most sense. Obviously he'd still be short, but it would seem less absurdly so.


Last edited by Hedberg: 02-28-2011 at 12:05 AM.
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Old
02-27-2011, 11:47 PM
  #367
monster_bertuzzi
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Worters is like a rich mans How 'bout we don't name goalies who might get taken as backups? This was actually the 80th goalie selected in the 2010 drafts..


Last edited by seventieslord: 02-27-2011 at 11:50 PM. Reason: because we only name undrafted players as jokes, and we don't name good ones.
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Old
02-27-2011, 11:48 PM
  #368
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Have you seen this site? It's the full text of a book by Finnigan's daughter on her father and the history of Ottawa hockey, and includes several interviews with Frank Finnigan and others.
Wow! I have this book, and I've always lamented that it's not indexed for easier searching. I had no idea that it was on a website, in its entirety!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Phew.. Lester Patrick bio finally done!

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...9&postcount=63

I hope you guys enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed putting the finishing touches on what seventies started!
Good work.

At this point I'm wondering why Patrick isn't considered in the Gerard/Boucher class of defensemen.

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02-28-2011, 01:47 AM
  #369
seventieslord
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King Clancy's bio is now up:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...4&postcount=88

I'm not sure how much the more knowledgeable GMs will learn from it, as it seems Clancy was not a particularly complex player and is well-known. It is his speed, offensive ability, humour, and competitive zeal that are the most frequently talked about. But don't discount his ability to defend, bodycheck, avoid penalization for illegal tactics, withstand punishment, and agitate opponents.

Clancy's first season is not included in the list of seasons he was top-6 in scoring as a defenseman, since he was a utility player. He also was in his second season, but wouldn't have qualified for that list anyway. After that, he was a staple in the leaders. Also, I found a mention of those rare, unofficial, GM-voted pre-1931 all-star teams. Clancy was a near unanimous choice in 1929.

I didn't find the need to scour newspapers for very much. There was more than enough in books, particularly because he was a Leaf and because he has two biographies written on him. Forgive me for using one "nostalgic" quote from the day he retired.

This signals the end of my bios getting better and better as the drafts go on. I just don't have the time for that. This bio is probably no better than the ones I did last draft, although, if I do say so myself, those ones were the bio gold standard.

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Old
02-28-2011, 02:42 AM
  #370
EagleBelfour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Tidewater selects G Roy Worters



1929 Hart Trophy
1931 Vezina Trophy
1932 2nd Team All-Star
1934 2nd Team All-Star

Legends of Hockey
Only pointing those statistics undersell Roy Worters big time. He should be selected at the same time than Tiny Thompson in my mind. The only reason I didn't took him with my previous picks is because I already had him last draft. I since read other quotes on his playoff abilities and his great performances prior to the AS era. Fantastic selection and not even the slightest doubt the steal for goaltenders in this draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Worters has been the "best goalie available" from a list perspective for a little while now, but in a playoff-heavy format like this, it's understandable why he falls.

Edit: But he's far from the only starting goalie in this with playoff questions.

At this point, there are no goalies left with no weaknesses.
Again, if Hedberg is ready to do the legwork, he will find that Worters played great in the playoffs every chance he got to get there, under one of the worst teams of his generation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
I thought about picking Roy Worters instead of Connell , even EagleBelfour last year had both and put Worter as his 1st goalie , but I decided to go with the double cup winner that elevated his play in the playoff , and franckly , a 5-3 goalie is just down right hilarious.
I didn't comment, because I thought there was a slight chance that Worters fall to #400, but there's absolutely no reason (NO reason) in my mind to select Alec Connell over Roy Worters. I had both and done extensive search on both also.

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Old
02-28-2011, 04:58 AM
  #371
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chaos' clock is now expired. I will PM Hedberg.

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Old
02-28-2011, 05:10 AM
  #372
DoMakc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
BGA. Add up his vezina, hart, all-star teams, and seasons top-5 in hart voting, and you can sa he had 6 elite seasons.
I'm curious how do rank Rayner. He won hart, was 3 times 2nd team allstar (behind Durnan and Sawchuk ahead of Broda, Brimsek and Lumley) and was 4th in hart voting on another occation (and 7th in 1949) and it's not like he played on a strong (or even average) team. And Rayner was great in playoffs - he took Rangers to the game 7 of Stanley Cup Finals, where he stopped 39 shots and was awarded with Conn Smyth (retroactively, but it was by HHOF and not by Ultimate Hockey, also semi-officially).

And than comes skillset in play - Rayner was rather big - 5'11 (I guess he could play power forward in basketball nowadays if we adjust his height ) and he was a great puckhandler - he often left his crease to play a dump in, and was even used on the point on PP (this fact doesn't speak for his defencemen), he also was a great pokechecker.

Rayner's and Worters' accomplishments are close, but IMO his skillset puts Rayner ahead of Worters.


Last edited by DoMakc: 02-28-2011 at 05:18 AM.
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Old
02-28-2011, 05:15 AM
  #373
chaosrevolver
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Peterborough Petes select...LW: George Hay

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Old
02-28-2011, 06:46 AM
  #374
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Guys I have to work today and there's a big storm here in Pittsburgh. We keep losing power off and on. I pick soon and I need to leave a list with someone please.

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Old
02-28-2011, 06:50 AM
  #375
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Somebody get back to me soon please before i lose power again. its a 3 man list

Ok guys I left my 3 man list with Sabre.


Big thanks to him! I'll sign on later probably from my friends cell-phone just to check up


Last edited by JFA87-66-99: 02-28-2011 at 06:56 AM.
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