HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Macarthur more valuable then Versteeg?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-24-2011, 10:12 PM
  #76
grabo84
Registered User
 
grabo84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenrikSedinFan View Post
No he very much is. He gets so much info from the Leafs and he puts it out there. Where does this info come from? the Leafs gm Burke or cousin Dave. Dreger ALWAYS has something to say about everything concerning the Leafs or players they may be looking at.
It looks like you've got a bit of a loose definition of shill then. But sure, being based in Toronto, he reports on the Leafs a lot. I'm sure knowing Nonis has helped him get the inside track on some stories before as well. Neither of these things makes him a shill.

grabo84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:34 PM
  #77
seanlinden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
This whole leading point getter thing is getting out of hand.

If Kessel had a decent center or even someone like Lupul (basically anybody but 4th line/ahl guys like Crabb, Caputi) on his wing most of the year he would have far more points than C-Mac. But he hasn't and Kessel has basically been an island of a player because he couldn't trust his linemates (at least until Lupul came in) to help him in anyway (feeds, opening space, etc.)

C-Mac also only has a few more points than his linemates Kulemin and Grabo. But out of those 3 C-Mac is the least valuable player moving forward for this team.

They would be selling C-Mac at a high point because the competition to get into the playoffs is fierce this year and most of his cap hit is already gone. If he is willing to take a hometown discount then by all means I'm for Burke keeping him but if he wants UFA type money then Burke should trade him. Get the assets from the trade then actually go sign a UFA to take his place. I would consider it a very proactive trade for Burke instead of a reactive one which he'd probably need to do late next year when C-Mac wouldn't really have a proper place as this team gets closer to being a good team.

But overall I think me and you are actually agree on the same basic concept.
The whole leading point getter thing isn't getting out of hand -- it's a simple fact. That line has been our most consistent and effective all year, and MacArthur has been a major contributor to that. He's speedy, works his butt off every shift, gets to the puck first, and gives Grabo/Kulemin a passing threat from behind the net, because both of those guys need space to protect the puck. The simple fact is -- he's problably not going to be very easy to replace.

As for selling high, his minimal cap hit is obviously of value to teams that aren't us, but if we resign him, and he has another great year, his value next year around this time would be even greater. At any point, his value can go up, or it can go down.

The decision to resign or trade him does rest on how much money he wants though. The value he returns problably isn't going to be a better player than him, so it's matter of whether he fits into the plans next year (something Versteeg did not). We're not talking about a very strong draft here, and I suspect the team that offered more than a first round pick would be the Canucks. Whether or not he fits into the plans next year, is highly dependent on the cap hit, at 3 x $2.5m, there's a ton of opportunity for a long term bargain if he is the real deal, and in a worst case scenario, he's a solid 3rd liner.

seanlinden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:40 PM
  #78
DG
Registered User
 
DG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,738
vCash: 500
Trading him is a bad idea. Unless the Leafs are hoping to draft more players like MacArthur so they can trade them for draft picks.

DG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:43 PM
  #79
JayBee*
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,652
vCash: 500
lol @ a 1st and a 2nd for McCarthur. LMAO!

JayBee* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:44 PM
  #80
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
lol @ a 1st and a 2nd for McCarthur. LMAO!
Uh, Versteeg just got a 1st and a 3rd...

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:51 PM
  #81
Gutless
Registered User
 
Gutless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 494
vCash: 500
Leafs should try hard to re-sign the guy.

In fact, they should keep the Kulemin - Grabo - Mac line around for a long while considering they're all young and have chemistry.

Gutless is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:54 PM
  #82
Claude28Giroux
praiseG
 
Claude28Giroux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lewiston, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Crosby View Post
So Dreger is lying?
Um it's called an opinion....

Claude28Giroux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:56 PM
  #83
shakes
Ancient Astronaut
 
shakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,938
vCash: 500
No picks.. if some team thinks that he is worth a 1st and a 2nd, then pony up an "A" level prospect. Burke should be looking for known quantities in exchange for a young, contributing player. I don't think he should be traded at all, but if someone is going to shoot the moon, then...

shakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:57 PM
  #84
T M L
Make Belief Captain
 
T M L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: T.O
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
lol @ a 1st and a 2nd for McCarthur. LMAO!
LMFAO @ this post if Burke moves him for a 1st & 2nd!

T M L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:57 PM
  #85
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
So after being owned 3 times in a week, people are still going to claim Macarthur isn't worth a first?

Haven't you guys learned from the Beauchemin, Versteeg and Kaberle trades?

Let me guess, a guy who's 25 and having a great season (on pace for 62 points), making 1.1 million is worth a third rounder?

Leafs players are so undervalued on here it's ridiculous.


Last edited by RogerRoeper*: 02-24-2011 at 11:07 PM.
RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 11:14 PM
  #86
mcinnesja
Registered User
 
mcinnesja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pembroke
Posts: 199
vCash: 500
Im still hoping Burke signs him to a decent new contract.
MacArthur is a good player that found chemistry with the Leafs.
Finally gets top 6 minutes, and is breaking out.

A return of picks will not help right now nor next yr unless Burke packages them for something else.
Picks are great, but who will play the Rw spot on the 2nd line Armstrong?

Unless a trade involes someone coming back that can take his spot for next yr, I would try to resign him
Come on Burkie, sign the kid already

mcinnesja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 11:15 PM
  #87
LeafsandSharksfan
Founder of NGA
 
LeafsandSharksfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,947
vCash: 500
Resign plz

LeafsandSharksfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 11:24 PM
  #88
Bob Sacamanu
Registered User
 
Bob Sacamanu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 561
vCash: 500
I understand Dreger has ties to the Leafs organization, but all of these rumors he's posting just seem like he's begging for attention. He hasn't been right about any of them...

Also, I don't think anyone would give up their 1st and 2nd for him.

Bob Sacamanu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 11:29 PM
  #89
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sacamanu View Post
I understand Dreger has ties to the Leafs organization, but all of these rumors he's posting just seem like he's begging for attention. He hasn't been right about any of them...

Also, I don't think anyone would give up their 1st and 2nd for him.
Sure they would,

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 11:39 PM
  #90
LEAFANFORLIFE23
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,839
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sacamanu View Post
I understand Dreger has ties to the Leafs organization, but all of these rumors he's posting just seem like he's begging for attention. He hasn't been right about any of them...

Also, I don't think anyone would give up their 1st and 2nd for him.
he's one of the most connected guys out there when he says something is being talked aout it is eing talked about

LEAFANFORLIFE23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 11:40 PM
  #91
noway
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Guelph, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
So after being owned 3 times in a week, people are still going to claim Macarthur isn't worth a first?

Haven't you guys learned from the Beauchemin, Versteeg and Kaberle trades?

Let me guess, a guy who's 25 and having a great season (on pace for 62 points), making 1.1 million is worth a third rounder?

Leafs players are so undervalued on here it's ridiculous.
If he was an Avalanche making 6.6M/year, you'd have to give up the whole farm for him!

noway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 11:41 PM
  #92
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 56,584
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Uh, Versteeg just got a 1st and a 3rd...
Versteeg's pedigree before moving to Toronto -- key component of a Cup winner -- vs MacArthur's -- arbitration award walk-away from a team that gave up a 3rd and 4th for him likely has something to do with both what Versteeg returned and what MacArthur will return if Burke moves him. The General's been better for the Leafs than Versteeg was, yet it seems likely GM's will be looking at more of both players histories than just the "now".

__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 11:43 PM
  #93
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Versteeg's pedigree before moving to Toronto -- key component of a Cup winner -- vs MacArthur's -- arbitration award walk-away from a team that gave up a 3rd and 4th for him likely has something to do with both what Versteeg returned and what MacArthur will return if Burke moves him. The General's been better for the Leafs than Versteeg was, yet it seems likely GM's will be looking at more of both players histories than just the "now".
I disagree. Versteeg isn't worth more because of a cup win. Macarthur is producing more than Versteeg ever has.


Macarthur being traded for a third and fourth means as much as Boston giving Versteeg away for virtually nothing to Chicago.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 11:48 PM
  #94
Crispy Crust
Registered User
 
Crispy Crust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Land of 13 Cups
Posts: 15,374
vCash: 570
The Leafs are better of resigning the General.

Crispy Crust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 11:50 PM
  #95
seanlinden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Versteeg's pedigree before moving to Toronto -- key component of a Cup winner -- vs MacArthur's -- arbitration award walk-away from a team that gave up a 3rd and 4th for him likely has something to do with both what Versteeg returned and what MacArthur will return if Burke moves him. The General's been better for the Leafs than Versteeg was, yet it seems likely GM's will be looking at more of both players histories than just the "now".
QFT.

This is Versteeg's 3rd year in the league, he scored 20 goals in both of his first 2 years, and was on pace to do that in Toronto before being traded despite really not meshing in Toronto. Teams knew what they are getting - a solid two-way, 2nd-3rd line scoring winger with goalscoring upside likely in the high 20s, but realistically over 20 goals every year. With MacArthur, teams see the production, work ethic, versatility, age and cap hit and it's an attractive commodity, but they also see the absolutely ridiculous chemistry he has with Grabovski-Kulemin.

Like I posted earlier in this thread, I think this is problalby a situation where Burke is using the media to work his negotiations. Maybe he has substantial offers for MacArthur, and maybe he's exagerrating just how substiantial those offers are and leaking it to Nonis' cousin.

If you're MacArthur, and realize that it's definitely not a good idea to swtich teams, it might be better to give a more substantial discount so that Burke doesn't trade him.

That being said, I really don't think a versteeg-type package is out of line with what would be offered, simply because he's an RFA. Even if he doesn't work out with whatever team he's traded to, he's still a solid depth player and there's a good chance that you could get somebody to offer sheet him for a 2nd round pick in the offseason. If you're a team like Vancouver who has absolutely minimal space to make a move, then it's something worth considering (if they're happy with the D).

seanlinden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 11:52 PM
  #96
DwightKSchrute
Registered User
 
DwightKSchrute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: PEI
Country: Canada
Posts: 682
vCash: 500
I think Mac fits into their rebuild for a couple years. No sense trading him now unless the return is eye opening.

DwightKSchrute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2011, 12:09 AM
  #97
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 56,584
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I disagree. Versteeg isn't worth more because of a cup win. Macarthur is producing more than Versteeg ever has.


Macarthur being traded for a third and fourth means as much as Boston giving Versteeg away for virtually nothing to Chicago.
Versteeg wasn't traded by Boston just last year, he was having his third straight strong post-season enroute to a Cup win. MacArthur was being dealt as a spare part due to some malingering in the 'room at that same point. Near history has a great deal of bearing on these sort of things, like it or not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
QFT.

This is Versteeg's 3rd year in the league, he scored 20 goals in both of his first 2 years, and was on pace to do that in Toronto before being traded despite really not meshing in Toronto. Teams knew what they are getting - a solid two-way, 2nd-3rd line scoring winger with goalscoring upside likely in the high 20s, but realistically over 20 goals every year. With MacArthur, teams see the production, work ethic, versatility, age and cap hit and it's an attractive commodity, but they also see the absolutely ridiculous chemistry he has with Grabovski-Kulemin.

Like I posted earlier in this thread, I think this is problalby a situation where Burke is using the media to work his negotiations. Maybe he has substantial offers for MacArthur, and maybe he's exagerrating just how substiantial those offers are and leaking it to Nonis' cousin.

If you're MacArthur, and realize that it's definitely not a good idea to swtich teams, it might be better to give a more substantial discount so that Burke doesn't trade him.

That being said, I really don't think a versteeg-type package is out of line with what would be offered, simply because he's an RFA. Even if he doesn't work out with whatever team he's traded to, he's still a solid depth player and there's a good chance that you could get somebody to offer sheet him for a 2nd round pick in the offseason. If you're a team like Vancouver who has absolutely minimal space to make a move, then it's something worth considering (if they're happy with the D).
Offer sheet? Toronto isn't in cap trouble, that would simply do Burke's work for him. As for return, it only takes one team to think MacArthur is a guy they need for the return to be substantial. It remains to be seen if someone is willing to take that risk. Versteeg was the more proven commodity with less baggage and a better NHL pedigree.

And Burke doesn't have to deal Clarke, regardless of if there is a fear he gets an offer sheet for more money than Burke would like to sign him for. If that happens, take the pick(s) at that time. Until then, negotiate in good faith and keep that second line together as something to build around.

Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2011, 12:10 AM
  #98
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Versteeg wasn't traded by Boston just last year, he was having his third straight strong post-season enroute to a Cup win. MacArthur was being dealt as a spare part due to some malingering in the 'room at that same point. Near history has a great deal of bearing on these sort of things, like it or not.




Offer sheet? Toronto isn't in cap trouble, that would simply do Burke's work for him. As for return, it only takes one team to think MacArthur is a guy they need for the return to be substantial. It remains to be seen if someone is willing to take that risk. Versteeg was the more proven commodity with less baggage and a better NHL pedigree.

And Burke doesn't have to deal Clarke, regardless of if there is a fear he gets an offer sheet for more money than Burke would like to sign him for. If that happens, take the pick(s) at that time. Until then, negotiate in good faith and keep that second line together as something to build around.

So what is Macarthur's worth?

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2011, 12:19 AM
  #99
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 56,584
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
So what is Macarthur's worth?
With the way he's playing right now weighed against some of his recent past, puts him in the 2nd and a B-level prospect range of return which should put him squarely in the category of being more valuable to the Leafs now than he is in trade.

Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2011, 12:21 AM
  #100
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
With the way he's playing right now weighed against some of his recent past, puts him in the 2nd and a B-level prospect range of return which should put him squarely in the category of being more valuable to the Leafs now than he is in trade.
Given his tiny salary+ his production+ the fact he's 25 leads me to think he's worth more than that.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:04 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.