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Old
02-25-2011, 02:17 PM
  #51
J17 Vs Proclamation
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Why on earth would Florida do this?

In his prime high end #2 center with a good cap hit who has never played with high end players and is good for 60 pts a year.

For what? A late 1st, 2nd and a mid tier prospect? We got a 1st round pick for Ballard +. Weiss is more valuable. Fisher and Versteeg got 1sts and Weiss is more valuable. Late 1st round picks will rarely have the career Weiss is having.

It's just not fair value at all. It may not fit Toronto's need at all which is why i can see their fan base not liking it, but value wise Florida gets *****.

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Old
02-25-2011, 02:29 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by tml2till2012 View Post
CLOSE this thread, Weiss is the most overrated player in NHL HISTORY. Florida fans can only wish we would take this deal.
Yeah, cause a 60 point NHL center (on a weak team) isn't worth a late 1st, a 2nd and a meh prospect. Tallon said it also would take an overpayment, so this is not even close.

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02-25-2011, 02:30 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Every player in Florida gets overrated it seems.

Much more was expected of Weiss when Florida drafted him.
You are insane if you think Florida's players are overrated. A 60 point center can't fetch a late 1st, 2nd and a decent prospect..

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02-25-2011, 02:35 PM
  #54
Tim Murray
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You heard it here first folks: Florida Panthers players are overrated by HFboards!

(side note: the judge scoring hits down here is on crack though)

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Old
02-25-2011, 02:45 PM
  #55
tml2till2012
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Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
Kessel is one-dimensional. He constantly floats. Kessel is no Stephen Weiss. Weiss is a top line player. Kessel is not.

I can make vague and cryptic points that have no meaning, as well.

Weiss has put up 60 points two years in a row. Those are 1st line numbers. Hell, he outscored Kessel last year, yet Kessel is some star while Weiss is some scrub? Kessel is very one-dimensional. He's notoriously inconsistent, not that great of a passer, soft, and constantly floats around in every zone he plays in. And don't give me the linemates excuse, Weiss has much worse to work with.

Weiss, on the other hand, is far from one-dimensional. He's fantastic defensively, and always puts in a good effort, more than you can say for Kessel. Also, he has 4 less points, in two less games.
If you believe this you are delusional, and should be put in an institute for the mentally handicapped. Weiss shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence of Phil Kessel. While Kessel may not be putting up fantastic numbers in the last couple years, he is 100 times more skilled than Weiss. On the contrary to what many people think Phil Kessel still has huge trade value, much higher than Weiss, and the is because of his untapped potential. Before his cancer setback he was one of only a few players who ever got compared to Sidney Crosby. If he ever puts it all together and gets motivated to work every night, along with having a number 1 center he has 50+ goal, 90+ point potential. Something that Weiss could only dream of having. To say that you wouldn't deal Weiss for Kessel is one of the stupidest things i've ever heard someone say on these boards. Right now Kessel >> Weiss, in the in 2-4 years from now Kessel >>>>>>>>>>>> Weiss.

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02-25-2011, 02:46 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
Just because you disagree with my points doesn't mean I don't watch the Leafs. Most of the time, Kessel looks completely lost in his own zone. He just kind of skates around waiting for the puck. His passing is ok, but not all that good. He has 104 assists in 353 NHL games. Not the best of numbers.

That's nice, but I was making a point that acting like Kessel is so much more superior than Weiss is extremely ignorant.

Well, if RogerRoeper would explain himself, we wouldn't have this misunderstanding. Unfortunately, he seems incapable of doing that.
Still disagree with you about the passing. He's had a lot of incredible playmaking moments this season, and Bozak/Crabb haven't been able to put them away.

For the record, I probably do the proposed deal from Leafs POV. You guys don't seem high on D'Amigo so I'd replace him with something else if you wanted, I still like the guy.

Awsome Panthers: Please stop double posting. It is annoying and against forum rules.

tmltil2012: He never said Weiss was worth more than Kessel. He said his skill level was similar to Kessel's and to praise Kessel and write off Weiss wasn't fair to Weiss. Your reply is completely uncalled for.

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Old
02-25-2011, 02:46 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tml2till2012 View Post
If you believe this you are delusional, and should be put in an institute for the mentally handicapped. Weiss shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence of Phil Kessel. While Kessel may not be putting up fantastic numbers in the last couple years, he is 100 times more skilled than Weiss. On the contrary to what many people think Phil Kessel still has huge trade value, much higher than Weiss, and the is because of his untapped potential. Before his cancer setback he was one of only a few players who ever got compared to Sidney Crosby. If he ever puts it all together and gets motivated to work every night, along with having a number 1 center he has 50+ goal, 90+ point potential. Something that Weiss could only dream of having. To say that you wouldn't deal Weiss for Kessel is one of the stupidest things i've ever heard someone say on these boards. Right now Kessel >> Weiss, in the in 2-4 years from now Kessel >>>>>>>>>>>> Weiss.


Brule got compared to Crosby too. Such a super star right no- oh wait.

And you didn't really explain anything, just blindly say "Kessel >>>>>> Weiss, /derp".

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02-25-2011, 02:50 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post


Brule got compared to Crosby too. Such a super star right no- oh wait.

And you didn't really explain anything, just blindly say "Kessel >>>>>> Weiss, /derp".
I like how you picked the one thing out of my response, that you knew could bash, and left the rest alone knowing that its true

Oh yeah and nice edit, the second part was only there once you realized how weak your response was

PS if you could read you would know I explained why Kessel >>>>>>> Weiss

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02-25-2011, 02:52 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tml2till2012 View Post
If you believe this you are delusional, and should be put in an institute for the mentally handicapped. Weiss shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence of Phil Kessel. While Kessel may not be putting up fantastic numbers in the last couple years, he is 100 times more skilled than Weiss. On the contrary to what many people think Phil Kessel still has huge trade value, much higher than Weiss, and the is because of his untapped potential. Before his cancer setback he was one of only a few players who ever got compared to Sidney Crosby. If he ever puts it all together and gets motivated to work every night, along with having a number 1 center he has 50+ goal, 90+ point potential. Something that Weiss could only dream of having. To say that you wouldn't deal Weiss for Kessel is one of the stupidest things i've ever heard someone say on these boards. Right now Kessel >> Weiss, in the in 2-4 years from now Kessel >>>>>>>>>>>> Weiss.
This is a pure homer post. You clearly haven't watched Weiss at all. Kessel couldn't score 50 in Boston, so he will never be close to that. Stephen Weiss has never played with elite wingers, he could easily put up 20 more points with an elite winger. You have probably only watched Weiss in the games he has played versus Toronto.

He makes some fairly good points about Kessel being one-dimentional and soft. Weiss on the other hand, like he said, is great both ways, he is a leader and he always play with his heart. Weiss is so underrated it's not even funny, and Toronto fan boys think they can get him (like anyone else) for nothing. Kessel might have a bit more skill, but Weiss is superior in the defensive game. I'd keep Weiss over Kessel anyday. Kessel is streaky, like Horton.

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02-25-2011, 02:55 PM
  #60
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If 50 pt players in Versteeg and Fisher netted 1st + 3rd and 1st + 2nd, both locked to contract, then I really don't see how this is substantially unreasonable to receive the 1st, the 2nd and a prospect for an extra 10 pt per season player.

I wouldn't do the deal if I was either team, but I'm just sayin....

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02-25-2011, 02:57 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
This is a pure homer post. You clearly haven't watched Weiss at all. Kessel couldn't score 50 in Boston, so he will never be close to that.
Oh I know, Kessel was clearly at the prime of his career at 21 years old in Boston, just over a year after he had got rid of his cancer

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02-25-2011, 02:58 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
Kessel couldn't score 50 in Boston, so he will never be close to that.
?

Boston is now one of the lower scoring teams in the league now, right? Same players as when Kessel was on the team from what I remember... I don't see how you can make this argument.


30 last year, on pace for another 30 this year... seems reasonable that, similar to your contention of Wiess, to put Kessel on a line with top players would only further his scoring.

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02-25-2011, 02:59 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tml2till2012 View Post
PS if you could read you would know I explained why Kessel >>>>>>> Weiss
Not really, all you talked about was his magical "potential" and how he was compared to Crosby. You didn't mention the fact that Kessel is nowhere near Crosby in terms of skill, mindset, effort, and intelligence-on ice. You also failed to mention that Kessel and Weiss have had similar point totals for this year and the past two years...yet he's 10000 times more skilled than him? If he was that much better than Weiss, he'd be a 60 goal scorer, which obviously isn't even close to true.

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02-25-2011, 03:00 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
?

Boston is now one of the lower scoring teams in the league now, right? Same players as when Kessel was on the team from what I remember... I don't see how you can make this argument.


30 last year, on pace for another 30 this year... seems reasonable that, similar to your contention of Wiess, to put Kessel on a line with top players would only further his scoring.
Thank GOD a neutral unbiased fan

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02-25-2011, 03:01 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
?

Boston is now one of the lower scoring teams in the league now, right? Same players as when Kessel was on the team from what I remember... I don't see how you can make this argument.
Are you serious?

Boston was 2nd in the NHL in goals per game in 2009. They were the 2nd best team in the NHL. Marc Savard put up 88 points, Kessel's linemate. Um, yeah, you can make that argument.

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02-25-2011, 03:04 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
Are you serious?

Boston was 2nd in the NHL in goals per game in 2009. They were the 2nd best team in the NHL. Marc Savard put up 88 points, Kessel's linemate. Um, yeah, you can make that argument.
How many of Kessels goals did Savard set-up?

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02-25-2011, 03:07 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
?

Boston is now one of the lower scoring teams in the league now, right? Same players as when Kessel was on the team from what I remember... I don't see how you can make this argument.


30 last year, on pace for another 30 this year... seems reasonable that, similar to your contention of Wiess, to put Kessel on a line with top players would only further his scoring.
What Steven said a bow.

Now and then is two completely different things. Savard didn't have a concussion back then.

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02-25-2011, 03:10 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
Not really, all you talked about was his magical "potential" and how he was compared to Crosby. You didn't mention the fact that Kessel is nowhere near Crosby in terms of skill, mindset, effort, and intelligence-on ice. You also failed to mention that Kessel and Weiss have had similar point totals for this year and the past two years...yet he's 10000 times more skilled than him? If he was that much better than Weiss, he'd be a 60 goal scorer, which obviously isn't even close to true.
To be fair Kessel has 4 more points and 9 more goals this season in one less game. And is not even close to being in the prime of his career (4.5 years younger than Weiss). Any GM would tell if their building a team and looking a year or two down the road they would much rather have Kessel as a first line winger than Weiss as a first line center. Also it can be argued that Kessel is almost on a similar skill level as Crosby, he just doesn't have nearly as much drive. Yet Weiss is a very hard working player who can not even produce to the level of Kessel. Its simple logic if we're talking about skill, Kessel => results as Weiss, yet Weiss tries and puts much more effort in, than Kessel must be significantly more skilled. Which also means if Kessel ever finds some drive, he will put up significantly better results than Weiss. And he has 4.5 years to do that before you can compare him to Weiss. Personally i'd bet on Kessel

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02-25-2011, 03:12 PM
  #69
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LOL the overvaluing of Stephen ****ing Weiss lives on in Hfboards.

Lets sum up this thread:

-Weiss is a top line forward
-Some guys says he wont deal Weiss for Kessel
-Kessel is a one dimensional floater

The proposed package might not get Florida to listen, but that doesn't mean Weiss is worth much more than that. If he was being shopped, that's the kind of offer he would go for. No one gives up 2 firsts for a player whose career high is 61 pts at age 28. When was the last time this happened?

The dude who said he wont deal Kessel for Weiss is out of his ****ing mind. You might like the intangibles Weiss brings, but in the NHL, young snipers like Kessel have alot more value than your Stephen Weiss.A signed Kessel can bring back a Weiss +. You can later parlay Kessel into another +.

Weiss is a glorified second line center. He's not capable of being #1 center in the NHL on a good playoff team.

You also bring up the fact that Kessel would score 60, have you ever seen a single top line player produce that much without a legit line mate? Ever? Also, how old is the guy compared to Weiss? If you say Kessel's passing ability is not that great, you clearly haven't played any attention while watching him, cuz the guy makes around 2-3 excellent passes a game, not to have one of our scrubs shoot it at the golaies chest.

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02-25-2011, 03:14 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by tml2till2012 View Post
To be fair Kessel has 4 more points and 9 more goals this season in one less game. And is not even close to being in the prime of his career (4.5 years younger than Weiss). Any GM would tell if their building a team and looking a year or two down the road they would much rather have Kessel as a first line winger than Weiss as a first line center. Also it can be argued that Kessel is almost on a similar skill level as Crosby, he just doesn't have nearly as much drive. Yet Weiss is a very hard working player who can not even produce to the level of Kessel. Its simple logic if we're talking about skill, Kessel => results as Weiss, yet Weiss tries and puts much more effort in, than Kessel must be significantly more skilled. Which also means if Kessel ever finds some drive, he will put up significantly better results than Weiss. And he has 4.5 years to do that before you can compare him to Weiss. Personally i'd bet on Kessel
This post is so bad, pure speculation and ********. A good center is more valuable than a winger.

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02-25-2011, 03:17 PM
  #71
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No way, we already traded Matt Stajan.

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02-25-2011, 03:18 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
LOL the overvaluing of Stephen ****ing Weiss lives on in Hfboards.

Lets sum up this thread:

-Weiss is a top line forward
-Some guys says he wont deal Weiss for Kessel
-Kessel is a one dimensional floater

The proposed package might not get Florida to listen, but that doesn't mean Weiss is worth much more than that. If he was being shopped, that's the kind of offer he would go for. No one gives up 2 firsts for a player whose career high is 61 pts at age 28. When was the last time this happened?

The dude who said he wont deal Kessel for Weiss is out of his ****ing mind. You might like the intangibles Weiss brings, but in the NHL, young snipers like Kessel have alot more value than your Stephen Weiss.A signed Kessel can bring back a Weiss +. You can later parlay Kessel into another +.

Weiss is a glorified second line center. He's not capable of being #1 center in the NHL on a good playoff team.

You also bring up the fact that Kessel would score 60, have you ever seen a single top line player produce that much without a legit line mate? Ever? Also, how old is the guy compared to Weiss? If you say Kessel's passing ability is not that great, you clearly haven't played any attention while watching him, cuz the guy makes around 2-3 excellent passes a game, not to have one of our scrubs shoot it at the golaies chest.
I'm sorry if I hurt your little Leafs feelings, but I'd take a 60 point two-way center any day over a 60 point soft winger. Age included.

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02-25-2011, 03:18 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
This post is so bad, pure speculation and ********. A good center is more valuable than a winger.
It depends what your definition of good is because clearly yours is that of a 2nd line center.

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02-25-2011, 03:20 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
Weiss is a glorified second line center. He's not capable of being #1 center in the NHL on a good playoff team.
That's not what his role is, though. He's an excellent 1B center. On a team like the Hawks/Kings he would be a beaut fit.

Quote:
You also bring up the fact that Kessel would score 60, have you ever seen a single top line player produce that much without a legit line mate? Ever? Also, how old is the guy compared to Weiss? If you say Kessel's passing ability is not that great, you clearly haven't played any attention while watching him, cuz the guy makes around 2-3 excellent passes a game, not to have one of our scrubs shoot it at the golaies chest.
That was a hyporbole, because the fool above said Kessel is "100 times more skilled than Weiss". That would pretty much make him a 60 goal scorer. Yeah, he may be more skilled, but he hasn't translated that skill into anything more than a bunch of inconsistent seasons, where he scores his 30 goals in half the games, then floats for the other half. Extremely inconsistent player, like most complimentary players are, and he's a complimentary player.

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02-25-2011, 03:21 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by tml2till2012 View Post
It depends what your definition of good is because clearly yours is that of a 2nd line center.
Okay, so a 60 point center is a second line center, but a 60 point winger is a first line winger. Where is the logic?

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