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Ott - Pho

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Old
02-25-2011, 10:10 AM
  #1
wpgyotes
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Ott - Pho

I'll probably get flamed from this from both sides, but Ottawa is looking to rebuild and "change the culture" while Phoenix can't exactly afford to wait it out for 5 years. They need a playoff run to get some cash flowing, and this trade goes a long way towards making that possible. They mortgage a bit of the future to do it, however...

Spezza and Neil for Turris, Tikhonov, 2011 1st, 2011 2nd (PHI)

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02-25-2011, 10:13 AM
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Jovo might have to go back the other way to have the dollars make sense, but he's off the books this summer. I excluded money from the equation because, as a Coyotes fan, it depresses me.

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02-25-2011, 10:13 AM
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Karlssonlee
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Originally Posted by wpgyotes View Post
I'll probably get flamed from this from both sides, but Ottawa is looking to rebuild and "change the culture" while Phoenix can't exactly afford to wait it out for 5 years. They need a playoff run to get some cash flowing, and this trade goes a long way towards making that possible. They mortgage a bit of the future to do it, however...

Spezza and Neil for Turris, Tikhonov, 2011 1st, 2011 2nd (PHI)
I wouldnt even trade Spezza for that deal.

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02-25-2011, 10:18 AM
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Comely
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As far as seeing a Spezza proposal at least you are giving up a potential number one centre in Turris. Ottawa should hold onto Spezza none the less.

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02-25-2011, 10:22 AM
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The value probably isn't THAT far off...but it makes no sense for the Sens to do right now. They trade their 27yr old former all-star and future captain for three prospects who might not even make the NHL.

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02-25-2011, 10:23 AM
  #6
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How has Turris looked this year? Is he progressing as expected?

As for the deal, I might do this if the first was changed to 2012

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02-25-2011, 10:28 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by SENS4EVER View Post
The value probably isn't THAT far off...but it makes no sense for the Sens to do right now. They trade their 27yr old former all-star and future captain for three prospects who might not even make the NHL.
I think it's a pretty safe bet both prospects mentioned will be everyday NHLers. Turris hasn't developed as hoped, but he's had plenty of setbacks, including being rushed in his rookie year and back surgery. The skill set is there, and that's why most Coyotes' fans are so adamantly opposed to trading him.

Didn't Spezza have some trying times in his younger years? Turris is still just 21 and needs to mature physically and as a player. Spezza is probably ripe for a change of scenery by now, is he not? $7M for an oft-injured, albeit true No. 1 centre, is still a big price tag. Three first round picks going back the other way is a pretty reasonable return.

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02-25-2011, 10:32 AM
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I think this a fair proposal- not knowing much about Tikhanov. I really like Turris, but I can't see Ottawa being a good environment for him ATM. He's not ready to handle first line duties at this point in time. And in Ottawa you're either an "at" or "om" when it comes to Spezza: H**er. Fill in the blanks.

The "om"s far outnumber the "at"s though, plus we need Chris Neil to protect whatever kids are up next year, so for those reasons, this deal would never happen.

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02-25-2011, 10:36 AM
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I like it... I think Turris has a similar skill set to Claude Giroux and will be the replacement C the Sens need replacing Spezza

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02-25-2011, 10:36 AM
  #10
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*sigh* Another Spezza proposal... Why don't people listen when the GENERAL MANAGER of the team publicly states that Spezza won't be dealt (barring a ridiculous overpayment of course).

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02-25-2011, 10:40 AM
  #11
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This is probably an overpayment by the Coyotes (which is exactly what would be needed to get these guys out of Ottawa so you're on the right track).

The problem is that I don't think Turris and Tik have progressed to the point that would make Sens management jump on this deal (although both are immensely talented forward prospects which is exactly what the Sens need).

I honestly don't know what I would do if I were Murray and the call came in, it's pretty close but may just not be the right fit.

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02-25-2011, 11:23 AM
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Good God, why do we have to deal with Spezza proposals non stop?

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02-25-2011, 11:41 AM
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Now that it's obvious that the Coyotes' ownership situation won't be resolved before the deadline it should stop these proposals from their fans.

Phoenix won't be taking on any big longer term contracts this deadline.

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02-25-2011, 11:46 AM
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Good God, why do we have to deal with Spezza proposals non stop?
Because fans of other teams only watch Sens' highlights?

Or because we're in full-blown rebuild mode?

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02-25-2011, 11:50 AM
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*sigh* Another Spezza proposal... Why don't people listen when the GENERAL MANAGER of the team publicly states that Spezza won't be dealt (barring a ridiculous overpayment of course).
that is a ridiculous overpayment

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02-25-2011, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by SENS4EVER View Post
The value probably isn't THAT far off...but it makes no sense for the Sens to do right now. They trade their 27yr old former all-star and future captain for three prospects who might not even make the NHL.
If you can't find a better leader in your room to put the C on than Jason Spezza, there's no point in even trying to make the playoffs, because he is not captain material in the NHL.

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02-25-2011, 12:05 PM
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I think it's a pretty safe bet both prospects mentioned will be everyday NHLers. Turris hasn't developed as hoped, but he's had plenty of setbacks, including being rushed in his rookie year and back surgery. The skill set is there, and that's why most Coyotes' fans are so adamantly opposed to trading him.

Didn't Spezza have some trying times in his younger years? Turris is still just 21 and needs to mature physically and as a player. Spezza is probably ripe for a change of scenery by now, is he not? $7M for an oft-injured, albeit true No. 1 centre, is still a big price tag. Three first round picks going back the other way is a pretty reasonable return.
Spezza didn't make the team right away, if that's what you're referring to by "trying times," but that was in the Old NHL and under Jacques Martin. As a 19-year-old call-up he came up huge in the 2002-2003 ECF against the eventual Cup-champ Devils and was probably the biggest reason that series went to 7 games. At 20 he put up 55 points in 78 games on the third line under Martin in the Old NHL. During the lock-out at 21 he played in the AHL, won MVP and put up 117 points in 80 games. Then at 22 he broke out in the NHL and put up 90 points in 68 games, and the rest is history. So, he wasn't Crosby or Ovechkin but it's not like he was a disappointment early on.

He's a legitimate first-line player and we're certainly not interested in dealing him for just "everyday NHLers." If the Sens brass is confident Turris has first-line upside then maybe, but our pro-scouting has been pretty bad recently so I'm not sure if I'd make any trades based on their opinion.

We can afford his price-tag seeing as we just dumped Fisher's $4.2 million, Kovalev's $5 million, Kelly's $2.2 million, and Ruutu's $1.3 million with no salary in return. We also figure to lose Leclaire's $4.8 million at the end of the year, and hopefully Kuba's $3.7 million.

As far as him needing a change of scenery, the scenery at least as regards the team is changing around him. Time was he probably needed to get out of Ottawa, but he's grown up, become a father, and a lot of the "negative influences" around him are no longer on the team.

Also, I don't know if he'd waive his NTC to go to Phoenix.

So all in all, I think the Sens pass.

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02-25-2011, 12:12 PM
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If you can't find a better leader in your room to put the C on than Jason Spezza, there's no point in even trying to make the playoffs, because he is not captain material in the NHL.
Interesting comment. How do you know what captain material is in the NHL? If you've played in the NHL and have been in NHL dressing rooms when the doors are closed to media, then I apologize in advance. I bet Spezza, a guy who might make mistakes on the ice from trying to be creative, is much better in terms of leadership than his giggling to the media would indicate.

I think fans would probably be amazed at how much more important it is how a guy is in the dressing room and on the bench as opposed to opinions on 'captain material' being based too heavily about how they are with the media or the on-ice performance.

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02-25-2011, 12:16 PM
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Interesting comment. How do you know what captain material is in the NHL? If you've played in the NHL and have been in NHL dressing rooms when the doors are closed to media, then I apologize in advance. I bet Spezza, a guy who might make mistakes on the ice from trying to be creative, is much better in terms of leadership than his giggling to the media would indicate.

I think fans would probably be amazed at how much more important it is how a guy is in the dressing room and on the bench as opposed to opinions on 'captain material' being based too heavily about how they are with the media or the on-ice performance.
To me, on-ice play is just as important when talking leadership. Spezza makes selfish mistakes and doesn't always give his all, something that has been obvious going back to when he dominated junior. I just don't see him as future captain material, and he shouldn't get it based on being the best player by default when Alfy retires. I think they may skip over Spezza and make someone from the Karlsson, Foligno, Cowen generation their next leader.

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02-25-2011, 12:24 PM
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If you can't find a better leader in your room to put the C on than Jason Spezza, there's no point in even trying to make the playoffs, because he is not captain material in the NHL.
I strongly disagree with this sentiment.

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02-25-2011, 12:59 PM
  #21
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If you can't find a better leader in your room to put the C on than Jason Spezza, there's no point in even trying to make the playoffs, because he is not captain material in the NHL.
From the files of: "I have no idea what I'm talking about".

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02-25-2011, 01:29 PM
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I just can't see Spezza standing up in the room and "peeling paint off the walls" with a mid-game, motivational speech. Is that a necessary characteristic of a captain? I'd say it is, but that's not necessarily the case nowadays, with team's automatically anointing their best player as captain (is it to keep the guy happy and/or stroke their ego more than anything?)... see Ovie in Washington.

The C must not have as much significance as it did back in Messier's heyday......

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02-25-2011, 01:33 PM
  #23
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To me, on-ice play is just as important when talking leadership. Spezza makes selfish mistakes and doesn't always give his all, something that has been obvious going back to when he dominated junior. I just don't see him as future captain material, and he shouldn't get it based on being the best player by default when Alfy retires. I think they may skip over Spezza and make someone from the Karlsson, Foligno, Cowen generation their next leader.
Are you living in 2006 or was that just the last time you paid any attention to the Sens at all?

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02-25-2011, 01:33 PM
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Ottawa won't trade Spezza without a #1 center coming back.

Murray has three untouchables, Alfie, Spezza and Karlsson. Anyone else can be traded.


Spezza has cleaned up his game considerably, and now plays on the PK.

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02-25-2011, 04:09 PM
  #25
Peter Petan
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sorry....

the reason the coyotes say no to this trade is why wolski got traded to ny, spezza is a 75-85 pt per season guy, but if he doesnt fit the system then his value to the team is severally damaged. Im not saying spezza and wolski are equals, but i could see this being like a olli jokinen type trade

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