HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > San Jose Sharks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

White Wants to Re-sign With Sharks

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-25-2011, 10:59 PM
  #51
Sharks4Life
Registered User
 
Sharks4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Bay, Ca
Country: United States
Posts: 477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Pretty much. Campbell said pretty much the same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
No. He didn't.
if i remember correctly soupy said he wanted to sign closer to his family.

Sharks4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2011, 11:01 PM
  #52
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 26,373
vCash: 567
$3.5M is as high as I'd go, unless he completely blows my mind the rest of the season.

TheJuxtaposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2011, 11:03 PM
  #53
TheDanceOfMaternity
Registered User
 
TheDanceOfMaternity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,355
vCash: 500
I'd give him whatever he wants simply because he is able to shoot the puck through to the goal from the point. It's not even a particularly fast shot, but I'm simply entertained given that we've never really had a d-man who could do that.

TheDanceOfMaternity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2011, 11:05 PM
  #54
Kitten Mittons
Registered User
 
Kitten Mittons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Francisco
Country: Armenia
Posts: 47,550
vCash: 500
$3.5 is what he WILL get ... from DW at least. No more than that.

Kitten Mittons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2011, 11:12 PM
  #55
Vaasa
Registered User
 
Vaasa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,240
vCash: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
$3.5m per for 3 years sounds right to me. He's a solid #4, maybe #3. Perfect PMD for the 2nd pairing for us.
Except I think Demers is the perfect 2nd-pairing PMD. And at least tonight, TMac agrees. I would like to keep White, but I think he should be making about what Vlasic is making. I think $3.0-3.25 is about right.

I think something like this next year might work:

Boyle-Murray
Vlasic-Demers
White-Braun

To me, that equates to:

1-4
2-3
5-6

Or if you think Murray is #5 in that group (I don't):

1-5
2-3
4-6

Vaasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2011, 11:14 PM
  #56
Kitten Mittons
Registered User
 
Kitten Mittons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Francisco
Country: Armenia
Posts: 47,550
vCash: 500
Vlasic is a #2? Never. At his very best, he is #3. It's more like:

1-4
3-4
4-5

Kitten Mittons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2011, 11:41 PM
  #57
Mafoofoo
:facepalm:
 
Mafoofoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 12,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
Vlasic is a #2? Never. At his very best, he is #3. It's more like:
I'm reserving judgement till I see how he plays if Boyle is gonna be out for a few games. It'll be one of the few times Vlasic is the best dman on the ice so it'll be interesting to see if he plays like that or not.

Mafoofoo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2011, 11:45 PM
  #58
rangerssharks414
Registered User
 
rangerssharks414's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,557
vCash: 500
I don't remember what I voted for in that defensemen poll earlier this season for Vlasic. I think I voted 3, but it might have been 4. I don't think he's a top pairing defenseman.

rangerssharks414 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2011, 11:56 PM
  #59
Blades of Glory
Troll Captain
 
Blades of Glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 18,335
vCash: 500
Vlasic is not a top-pairing defenseman, and he never will be one. He does not have the offensive ability nor the size necessary to be a legitimate top-pairing defenseman. Most top-pairing defensemen possess tremendous all-around abilities and generally are physically gifted in terms of skill and size. Aside from Dan Boyle, who has an offensive skillset that is probably the best at his position, do you ever see an undersized defenseman succeed in a top-pairing role, let alone as a legitimate #1. Vlasic simply doesn't have the physical tools to be a top-pairing defenseman, not even a #2, unless he is playing with an incredibly dominant #1 that can physically cancel out his lack of size. i.e. Chris Pronger

Blades of Glory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 12:09 AM
  #60
ChubbChubby
My life is a gym
 
ChubbChubby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,030
vCash: 500
You make Vlasic sound like he's tiny. He's 6'2" but just plays small. He's more positional and doesn't have to use his body since he's so good with his stick.

He's only 23, so I wouldn't count him out just yet. To say he'll never develop into a top-pairing defenseman is imprudent. Most offensive defenseman really don't hit their stride offensively until much later in their careers, with exceptions like Doughty only happening rarely.

ChubbChubby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 12:12 AM
  #61
Kitten Mittons
Registered User
 
Kitten Mittons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Francisco
Country: Armenia
Posts: 47,550
vCash: 500
I bet my left nut Vlasic will never develop any decent offensive skills, unless he is leaching off someone like Blake.

Kitten Mittons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 12:19 AM
  #62
Vaasa
Registered User
 
Vaasa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,240
vCash: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
Vlasic is a #2? Never. At his very best, he is #3. It's more like:

1-4
3-4
4-5
That's where I place on the Sharks. Not necessarily where they would be considered in the overall group of NHL players. Overall, Vlasic is still the 2nd-best d-man on the team, IMO.

Vaasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 12:36 AM
  #63
Gilligans Island
Registered User
 
Gilligans Island's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF/Bay Area
Posts: 7,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubbs View Post
You make Vlasic sound like he's tiny. He's 6'2" but just plays small. He's more positional and doesn't have to use his body since he's so good with his stick.

He's only 23, so I wouldn't count him out just yet. To say he'll never develop into a top-pairing defenseman is imprudent. Most offensive defenseman really don't hit their stride offensively until much later in their careers, with exceptions like Doughty only happening rarely.
We've been saying for years Vlasic will "eventually" develop offensive skills - yet, here's Demers in his 2nd year and Braun in (quite) his rookie year showing more potential. Vlasic's problem is in between his ears. Maybe he figures it out but I wouldn't bank on it.

Gilligans Island is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 12:52 AM
  #64
ChubbChubby
My life is a gym
 
ChubbChubby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
We've been saying for years Vlasic will "eventually" develop offensive skills - yet, here's Demers in his 2nd year and Braun in (quite) his rookie year showing more potential. Vlasic's problem is in between his ears. Maybe he figures it out but I wouldn't bank on it.
I think it has more to do with the fact that he was brought up to the NHL at such an early age, and paired with a hall-of-famer partner who carried most of the offensive weight. When you're brought up so young, you're especially focused on developing your defense first and not making big mistakes that will cost the team. This is especially important for a defenseman.

Unfortunately now, those aspects of his game that he worked on early is holding him back. It is very much in his head, and until he's willing to take some chances he's not going to change much. I don't see that happening under our current defensive coaching staff, but I will not dismiss Vlasic's potential as hopeless just yet. And you have to remember, this is his first year without Blake and he was paired with WALLIN for most of the year.

ChubbChubby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 12:54 AM
  #65
Kitten Mittons
Registered User
 
Kitten Mittons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Francisco
Country: Armenia
Posts: 47,550
vCash: 500
How did Vlasic managed to score 26 points in 06-07 as a 20 year old? Who was he paired with?

Kitten Mittons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 12:54 AM
  #66
Led Zappa
Oy vey...
 
Led Zappa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,950
vCash: 500
Sharks Rock!

All of them

__________________

"This is not a nick or a scratch, this is an open wound" - Doug Wilson.
Led Zappa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 12:56 AM
  #67
Gilligans Island
Registered User
 
Gilligans Island's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF/Bay Area
Posts: 7,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubbs View Post
I think it has more to do with the fact that he was brought up to the NHL at such an early age, and paired with a hall-of-famer partner who carried most of the offensive weight. When you're brought up so young, you're especially focused on developing your defense first and not making big mistakes that will cost the team. This is especially important for a defenseman.

Unfortunately now, those aspects of his game that he worked on early is holding him back. It is very much in his head, and until he's willing to take some chances he's not going to change much. I don't see that happening under our current defensive coaching staff, but I will not dismiss Vlasic's potential as hopeless just yet. And you have to remember, this is his first year without Blake and he was paired with WALLIN for most of the year.
I'd also like to add I want to hear stories about him working on his shot before and after practice. Someone was dogging on Heatley for reportedly not doing the same - we have no idea since we only have 1 beat writer- but the same can be said of Vlasic.

And I don't blame the coaching staff for Vlasic, Demers is doing fine. Braun in a small sample size seems OK.

Gilligans Island is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 01:17 AM
  #68
zombiekopitor
GOALdobin
 
zombiekopitor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Best Coast
Posts: 2,614
vCash: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
Heatley will reach his cliff before Boyle reaches his. he'll always be able to skate, Heatley won't. he'll probably stop caring too.
whoa dude far out, you predicted the future....of like 4 months ago. Heatley is annoying the living crap out of me.....floated ALL game, I really don't think I've ever seen him skate slower, which says alot! then that one moment near the end he decides to back check his ass off, wtf man? I don't have a problem if he's not putting in 50 goals especially if they're winning, but when he's not playing a gritty game or even trying to skate out there and being negative to the style the Sharks have recently adapted too...it is just not acceptable.

White wanting to resign is good, but I don't really like the idea of possibly having 4 right handed puck movers next season...I mean Braun is deff showing he deserves to be in the big leagues...now this is just me and I know it would never happen, but LA is targeting a big name winger, Jack Johnson was in a rumoured trade. Heatley and Braun/Demers for Sturm & JMFJ....oh yeh that would be sick imo!!! I added Demers in there because it would probably take that much but of course id rather it be Braun, either way we would have a guy that should legitimately replace Boyle which will be a huge concern in the next few years.

About Vlasic, he is far away the best positioned Shark on the ice almost all the time(tonight there was a small exception) Because he plays such a sound yet quiet game when he does make an occasional goof it stands out even more. To me it doesn't matter much that he doesn't put up alot of offence, I mean I think he is capable of it, but it would likely take away from his true game, and really that is much much harder to replace then what Erhoffs game was, I wasn't once of that opinion but one could argue Demers pretty much has already, and theoritically will be better then him by the time he is the age of Erhoff's breakout season last year.
just my 2 cents on a few issues, see you in a month or so


Last edited by zombiekopitor: 02-26-2011 at 01:28 AM.
zombiekopitor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 01:59 AM
  #69
SC2008
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Except I think Demers is the perfect 2nd-pairing PMD. And at least tonight, TMac agrees. I would like to keep White, but I think he should be making about what Vlasic is making. I think $3.0-3.25 is about right.

I think something like this next year might work:

Boyle-Murray
Vlasic-Demers
White-Braun

To me, that equates to:

1-4
2-3
5-6

Or if you think Murray is #5 in that group (I don't):

1-5
2-3
4-6
Not a fan of that D-line-up. No size.

Only one player is taller than 6'2" or weighs more than 210lbs. That's Murray.

Check out past Cup winners since the lockout. Bluelines have size. I believe the Blackhawks didn't have a single D-man under 6'. Runner up Flyers were equally ridiculous with Pronger and Coburn.

Hawks also had the option to stick Buffman back there, but optioned to use him as a forward. We saw first hand what a big forward can do to a defense.

At minimum you need at least 2 D-men with size. If one is an elite, even better.

SC2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 02:31 AM
  #70
GCB2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 145
vCash: 500
In my view of the recent Stanley cup winning D most teams have 4 guys being puck movers and 2 shutdown. Having 4 puck movers is not a bad thing even if they are all right handed. With Vlasic and Murray in the shutdown role carrying White, Boyle and Demers + Braun/rookie would not be the worst thing. If the sharks can lock White in in the 3M-3.5M range they will still have money to lock in Niemi. If they have to complete in the UFA market to get a top D like everyone wants it, think 4M-5M would likely end up signaling the end of the road for Niemi or Setoguchi.

GCB2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 03:17 AM
  #71
WTFetus
Moderator
Most popular
 
WTFetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 11,850
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
How did Vlasic managed to score 26 points in 06-07 as a 20 year old? Who was he paired with?
I don't remember, maybe McLaren? Being paired with him and Blake would explain his lack of physicality. He never would have to play physical with those two.

WTFetus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 03:22 AM
  #72
Vaasa
Registered User
 
Vaasa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,240
vCash: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC2008 View Post
Not a fan of that D-line-up. No size.

Only one player is taller than 6'2" or weighs more than 210lbs. That's Murray.

Check out past Cup winners since the lockout. Bluelines have size. I believe the Blackhawks didn't have a single D-man under 6'. Runner up Flyers were equally ridiculous with Pronger and Coburn.

Hawks also had the option to stick Buffman back there, but optioned to use him as a forward. We saw first hand what a big forward can do to a defense.

At minimum you need at least 2 D-men with size. If one is an elite, even better.
It's not like they are a bunch of midgets. Only Boyle and White are under 6'0. You've got Demers and Vlasic at 6'1, Braun at 6'2, and Murray at 6'3. And then in another couple of years you might have Doherty at 6'7, Abeltshauser at 6'5, and Bielke and Petrecki at 6'3.

The Blackhawks weren't stuffed with big players. Hjalmarsson is 6'3, 205; Sopel 6'2, 205; Seabrook 6'3, 218; Kieth 6'1, 196; Boynton 6'1, 218; and Campbell 6'0, 189.

So compairing the two line-ups:

Boyle (5'11, 190) = Campbell (6'0, 189)
Murray (6'3, 240) > Seabrook (6'3, 218)
Vlasic (6'1, 200) < Boynton (6'1, 218)
Demers (6'1, 195) = Keith (6'1, 196)
White (5'10, 200) < Sopel (6'2, 205)
Braun (6'3, 205) = Hjalmarsson (6'3, 205)

The heights are pretty equivalent and the only players where there is much of weight difference are Boynton vs Vlasic and Sopel vs White. I would take Vlasic over Boynton any day of the week, despite any size or weight difference as Vlasic is just a MUCH better defender. White only gives up 5 lbs in weight to Sopel, despite the 4 inch height difference and I think White brings more than enough to the table to offset. And heck, if Petrecki were to make it up next year or the year after, the Sharks would actually be bigger overall than the Chicago Cup-winning defense.


Last edited by Vaasa: 02-26-2011 at 03:31 AM.
Vaasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 04:12 AM
  #73
Derick*
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,624
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Derick*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
How did Vlasic managed to score 26 points in 06-07 as a 20 year old? Who was he paired with?
Rob Davison at ES iirc but it wasn't because of him, it was because of powerplay time

Derick* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 04:35 AM
  #74
Blades of Glory
Troll Captain
 
Blades of Glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 18,335
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
I don't remember, maybe McLaren? Being paired with him and Blake would explain his lack of physicality. He never would have to play physical with those two.
Vlasic was paired with Scott Hannan in 2006-07. Hannan's presence was one of the main reasons that Vlasic had such an outstanding rookie year. He was second among Sharks' defenseman in PP time before Craig Rivet was acquired, and had 12 of his 26 points on the PP. Vlasic's performance fell off significantly in 2007-08 due to Hannan's departure and him subsequently not having a consistent defense partner. Until the Brian Campbell trade, the Sharks had only three legitimate defensemen that were healthy for the entire season. Rivet and Ehrhoff played together for most of the year, while Vlasic had the misfortune of having a revolving door as his partner. It wasn't until Rob Blake's arrival that Vlasic regained a partner that was capable of making up for his deficiencies, most notably lack of size.


Last edited by Blades of Glory: 02-26-2011 at 05:19 AM.
Blades of Glory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2011, 12:02 PM
  #75
SJeasy
Registered User
 
SJeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 12,343
vCash: 500
Several items.

An article was done about a year ago. When Boyle gets past 24min, he tends to fall off in production. In addition, he is getting top matchups this year. Last year he was facing second tier players with Blake getting the shutdown role. It changes the +/- and is usually a signal that a dman is overmatched. Check the +/- relative to the other dmen on the team, not leaguewide. It takes the team factor out. He may look bad more often because he facing higher skill players.

On Vlasic and offense, the issue is not because he is making sure of his defense per se. He is atrocious with the puck. He is frequently looking down to make sure it is secure before looking for his option. I never see him look up before the puck arrives to see where it should go before it gets to his stick. All of the hesitation is what is killing his offensive game. Until he shows signs of more confidence with the puck and more vision before receiving it, he isn't going to produce more offense. It isn't because he is the defensive half, and it shows on the PP where he actually brings the numbers of his PP unit down when his defensive responsibility is not so high. Being a defensive dman doesn't mean that all offense needs to stop; Lidstrom, Pronger, Weber and Seabrook do just fine playing both ways. He has picked up on blocking shots and hard arounds and blocking hard arounds is part of offense. In terms of defense, Vlasic has had issues with big forwards who are frequently on #1 lines. With Blake, that was manageable, not so much this year. Until this changes, no higher than a #3 defensively.

On White, very similar to Boyle. Roughly a #4 defensively. In his banner year from an article, he was producing offense at a #1 offensive dman rate (wasn't getting #1 minutes).

On Braun, one site had him listed at 6'3". Side by side, he looks like he has about 2" on Vlasic.

The Calgary game was interesting because, it looked like it wasn't just d pairs matching forward lines. The Marleau line pretty much had Iginla for the entire game, and the forwards were very involved in defending. Topping it off, Braun was on against Iginla for several shifts. IMO, Braun may very well take on the role of taking the big forwards in a couple of years.

SJeasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:02 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.