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Weiss could go to the Leafs per Mckenzie

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Old
02-26-2011, 04:16 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
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Weiss for Kulemin?
I just choked reading that.

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02-26-2011, 04:23 PM
  #227
AmericanDream
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
But we already have a bunch of options for a #2 center going forward.
Grabovski and he has been better so far this season.
Kadri has been playing great in the AHL.
Colbourne is the center piece of the Kaberle trade.
Mckegg is tearing up the OHL.
Bozak could still turn things around and be a good #2.

Wiess would be a stopgap because we have a lots of options for the roll he is best at.
honestly to me, none of those guys are on the same level as Weiss currently.

and having options and reality are two different things. you are naming players that might be 3 years away and you have no clue how they turn out. Bozak had his crack there as well, and it may be the dreaded sophmore slump or it may be proof that he is nothing more then a #3.

Grabovski looks like he is a legit #2 so I will give you that, but outside of Grabovski, you have nothing really proven or anything that I would say will be better then Weiss, and that includes Kadri....but its cool, we differ on opinion, its no biggie.

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02-26-2011, 04:28 PM
  #228
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There's no way Kulemin would get traded for Weiss. Kadri is not going anywhere I hope. I think he'll be a stud in the NHL one day.

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02-26-2011, 04:33 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
http://twitter.com/krufrank

Weiss for Kulemin?
Anybody putting that out there is clearly a clueless buffoon who is not worth your time.

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02-26-2011, 04:33 PM
  #230
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I wouldn't move Kulemin for anything from Florida honestly. Maybe Booth, but that's it.

He's a work horse with some offensive upside and at minimum is probably a 20 goal guy who makes space for his linemates. He's our closest thing to a power-forward, and he's one of our own draft picks.

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02-26-2011, 04:34 PM
  #231
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OK, so this thread has a lot of back and forward between Leaf fans and what I am assuming are Panther fans.

What Weiss brings to Toronto?

He's a 5'11 around 190 centre who has posted above 60pts only twice in his career, albeit with inferior talent surrounding him. He's Florida's #1 centre and is a #2 centre on a contending team. He's great defensively, hard worker and a Toronto kid. At 27/28, he's a seasoned NHLer and could pick it up a notch or two in the right situation. As Toronto's roster stands right now, if acquired would slot between Lupul and Kessel, which would bump Bozak to the #3 centre spot. Most Leaf fans expect Bozak to be solid 3rd liner on a contending team with the potential to move into a 2nd line centre role when necessary.

Weiss is a good hockey player and holds a lot of value with Florida. IMO, his value is probably comparable to Versteeg but will likely demand a little bit higher of a return as he is currently Florida's #1 centre.

What would it take for Florida to trade him and will the Leafs be willing to move?

It is apparent that Tallon intends to build FLA through the draft, we saw this last summer with him loading up on picks at the draft. As well, he has shown that he likes former players. Off the top of my head I cannot think of any players on the Leafs that have an association with Tallon. That leaves picks and possibly prospects as his target, with maybe a warm body or two coming back.

Looking at past deals, I look to the Horton/Cambell for Wideman + 1st (15th overall) + 3rd 2011. Wideman was coming off an off year after putting up 50pts and is now on pace for 44pts. He was also traded to Bos for a former 1st rd pick in Boyes, I'd attach a 1st round pick value to him. Seemingly then, the asking price would be 2 x 1sts (or comparable young assets) for Weiss. Campbell for 3rd is close value.

So, with that being said, does it make sense for the Leafs to move 2 x 1sts for Weiss? In short, no. Weiss, and I know I will get flamed for this, is comparable to Grabovski. Similar production, and Grabo's work ethic and maturity has grown leaps and bounds. Weiss will represent an immediate upgrade to our forwards this year, but in the long run I don't see him being the answer. Why trade 2 x 1sts for a short term solution?

Kadri and Colborne are coming through the ranks. IMO, Kadri will be similar to Weiss with maybe a little more offensive upside. Colborne likely will fit in either on the wing, or provide that big body centre we've been lacking. If Toronto packages those 2 1sts, I hope it is for a long term solution to our needs and not for a stop gap.

So that being said, Toronto is unlikely to give both our 1sts for Weiss. Then who else could we move that Florida would want? The list becomes very small, and I can't see Florida wanting any of those assets.

In short, I bet the interest is there, but the assets I believe Tallon wants will not be moved from Toronto.

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02-26-2011, 04:37 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
honestly to me, none of those guys are on the same level as Weiss currently.

and having options and reality are two different things. you are naming players that might be 3 years away and you have no clue how they turn out. Bozak had his crack there as well, and it may be the dreaded sophmore slump or it may be proof that he is nothing more then a #3.

Grabovski looks like he is a legit #2 so I will give you that, but outside of Grabovski, you have nothing really proven or anything that I would say will be better then Weiss, and that includes Kadri....but its cool, we differ on opinion, its no biggie.
Yes, Grabovski is very much comparable to Weiss. There may be a few differences, but skill level and production wise they are similar - and Grabo is having the better season offensively.

Grabo has matured leaps and bounds this season and is displaying tons of heart this year.

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02-26-2011, 04:45 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by exporta View Post
OK, so this thread has a lot of back and forward between Leaf fans and what I am assuming are Panther fans.

What Weiss brings to Toronto?
...
I think you are right on the money; however, while the Panthers may want two 1sts value, they will trade him for less. I could very well see Weiss only allowing a trade to TOR, which gives you guys a discount.

I thought Weiss was gone for sure earlier in the season as I think Tallon wants a big frame number 1 center, but Weiss' deceleration that he want to retire as a Panther has probably made Tallon slightly less likely to move him. With trade talks involving Weiss heating up again, I could see him reluctantly waiving his NMC for Toronto as he always seems to play better/speak well of his childhood team.

Weiss is a 1b/2 center. Not a true #1, but I think he could help you guys.

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Old
02-26-2011, 04:49 PM
  #234
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you must have me confused for someone else as I have defended the Kessel deal and still will. I would take Kessel in a heartbeat over Seguin, because I usualy like the PROVEN over the UNPROVEN. That deal is so far over blown by media and fans that in the end it works out for both teams. Who knows what Seguin and Knight will be, or what the 2011 pick will turn out, but the Leafs as it stands has the best player in that deal, and I would take a 22 year old 30 plus goal scorer every time.

maybe one day Seguin becomes the better player, but I would bet at the earliest it will take another 2-3 years before he even gets to Kessel's numbers..overall play I am sure Seguin is better now, but pure offense, Kessel is by far better.

as for trading away long term pieces for stop gaps or short term players, I wouldnt consider Weiss that at all. At 28 you could have him for another 5 years plus, how is that not long term as well?
That's just.....it doesn't strike you, for instance, that according to this reasoning it's a really, really terrific idea to trade Cam Neely for Barry Pederson? To argue that proven is better than umproven is quite simply stupid. It's like saying a winger is always better than a defenseman. The issue is that you're comparing a known quantity with an unknown quantity - any given deal hinges on how correctly you assess the unknown quantity, not on unknown quantities being better or worse than known quantities per se.

Beyond that, the real cost of the deal is of course totally irrespective of how well Seguin and Knight does. The picks have a value as assets, and that value significantly exceeds Kessel's. That this was a badly failed trade by the Leafs is far beyond any reasonable argument.

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