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Old
02-27-2011, 12:13 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Nunymare View Post
Mentioning Hall, Eberle, and our first round pick is insulting.
Thinking your getting staal in a trade for anything less than something packaged around Hall or Eberle is just as, if not more insulting.

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02-27-2011, 12:41 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Nunymare View Post
Mentioning Hall, Eberle, and our first round pick is insulting.
It would be Hall+, or Eberle+. That + being something significant.

Otherwise, dream~on Oilers fans. You're not getting Staal for a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

Gaborik+Callahan+Zuccarello+Prust make up our RW's. I value Hemsky more than most Rangers fans, simply because I admire his raw talent, but Torts wouldn't play him over Gabs+Cally. It would send Zucs down who's playing quite well, and dominating shootouts.

There is no interest in Hemsky. Assuming the team would move a player they've developed for a few years now, and recently re-signed him to a 4 year deal (under 4M) for a player they don't really desire, doesn't make much sense.

Outside of Staal, the Rangers don't have anything close to a top-pairing dmen. We have some nice prospects playing a lot, but nobody is even close to Staal. McDonagh's peak is close to what Staals current performance. Sauer, solid, but doesn't have the mobility you want out of a 1st pairing dmen. Gilroy and MDZ are both pretty crappy defensively. Neither is 1st pairing material, imo. Girardi's a very solid 2nd pairing dmen, but he seems more prone to mistakes w/o Staal there to cover up for him.

The team can't afford to trade Staal. We'll just be opening up a new hole. 1st pairing/top-line players don't come cheap. Especially when they're still in the pubescent stage of their careers.

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02-27-2011, 12:45 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
Thinking your getting staal in a trade for anything less than something packaged around Hall or Eberle is just as, if not more insulting.

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02-27-2011, 12:51 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
It would be Hall+, or Eberle+. That + being something significant.

Otherwise, dream~on Oilers fans. You're not getting Staal for a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

Gaborik+Callahan+Zuccarello+Prust make up our RW's. I value Hemsky more than most Rangers fans, simply because I admire his raw talent, but Torts wouldn't play him over Gabs+Cally. It would send Zucs down who's playing quite well, and dominating shootouts.

There is no interest in Hemsky. Assuming the team would move a player they've developed for a few years now, and recently re-signed him to a 4 year deal (under 4M) for a player they don't really desire, doesn't make much sense.

Outside of Staal, the Rangers don't have anything close to a top-pairing dmen. We have some nice prospects playing a lot, but nobody is even close to Staal. McDonagh's peak is close to what Staals current performance. Sauer, solid, but doesn't have the mobility you want out of a 1st pairing dmen. Gilroy and MDZ are both pretty crappy defensively. Neither is 1st pairing material, imo. Girardi's a very solid 2nd pairing dmen, but he seems more prone to mistakes w/o Staal there to cover up for him.

The team can't afford to trade Staal. We'll just be opening up a new hole. 1st pairing/top-line players don't come cheap. Especially when they're still in the pubescent stage of their careers.
And also : laugh: and finally

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02-27-2011, 01:21 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by newoilburnsclean View Post
And also : laugh: and finally
Let me add a few:

: laugh::laugh

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02-27-2011, 01:23 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by newoilburnsclean View Post
And also : laugh: and finally
Good to know you guys value your shiny new toy that much. I realize this kids going to be a stud in this league, but hes not yet. Get over it.

He has nearly as many points as our own rookie stepan. So honestly, to consider him with the likes of Stamkos and other elite players makes me : laugh:

I realize you guys love him and don't want to trade him for anything, but you don't have the organizational depth to trade for staal without giving up a Hall or Eberle. And since neither is proven to be an elite talent at this level (sorry but a 50 point season doesn't put him in the elite level yet) then its going to be one of these guys + for a proven #1 d-man.

Honestly, with the way you guys laugh at this fact, i can tell you have never seen staal play on a regular basis. I wouldn't trade anyone on your team straight up for staal and honestly theres only a few cases that id even consider trading him for 2 guys. It would take a nice package from edmonton to pry staal from our hands.

If anyone is nearly untradeable on the rangers its him. If this was football and we had a franchise tag, this would be the guy it goes to during FA. He is, imo, the most important piece on this team and is easily the most impactful d-man we've had since leetch.

If the Rangers win a cup during the next ten years, it will be in large part because of him. And if he continues his play and improves, Staal's 18 will likely hang in the rafters at MSG.

Anyone who laughs and thinks that Edmonton can get staal without giving up at least one of hall or eberle not only knows nothing about Staal but knows nothing about the rangers organization in general.

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02-27-2011, 01:25 AM
  #107
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I'd love to have ovi or crosby's input on this discussion. I guarantee you they wouldn't underestimate staal's value.

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02-27-2011, 01:48 AM
  #108
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/thread

seriously has run its course

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02-27-2011, 01:53 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
/thread

seriously has run its course
I do agree with this. I wish mods were more proactive in closing down threads of this nature. It just leads to animosity.

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02-27-2011, 01:53 AM
  #110
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Asking about any Staal is dumb. They're all so f'ing overrated on HF and their fans will crucify you with dumb comments like "Start with Hall+". morons.

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02-27-2011, 02:08 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by BPD View Post
Staal is signed long term to a very favorable contract.

Hemsky expires in a year. If he stays healthy and we decide to re-sign him, cap space becomes an issue.
Smid is nice, but not Staal.

Omark is easily the black sheep of the Edmonton youth movement.

If Edmonton wants Staal, it's going to be like the Erik Johnson deal, except more value coming to NYR, since Staal is our defensive captain and about as close to a malcontent as EDM is to a playoff spot.
I don't think people realize what a great deal Staal's contract is. In our cap world, his contract and his talent together greatly increase his value. And if you've ever watched Staal vs Ovechkin, you'd get a better idea just how good of a shutdown d-man he is. As to the OP, no thank you. After Hemsky is gone, we'd have nothing to show for that trade. Nothing much that is. None of those included players will ever make an impact on the Rangers. And we'd be the ones dealing from a position of strength. And Sather has said he refuses to deal our core youth so you'd have to massively overpay to get him. And Sather has a good track record of getting good deals in our favor so good luck trying to fleece him, for Marc Staal nonetheless. At the end of the day, it's just not even worth proposing.

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02-27-2011, 02:14 AM
  #112
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That looks to me like they're trying to feed the troll a bowl of crap with a chicken bone in it, if that is the case why would anyone NOT want to feed trolls?

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02-27-2011, 02:48 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
It would be Hall+, or Eberle+. That + being something significant.
This is MARC STAAL.

You realize CHRIS ****ING PRONGER didn't receive anything close to this, right?

I get it, he's a great defenseman. Hall + SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT, come on man, that's just ridiculous. Consecutive lottery picks for Marc Staal? Did this guy become the favorite for the Norris when I wasn't looking? I try to be objective, but maybe my centre ice is a little grainy when I watch Ranger games and I missed that part where a 90+ point potential forward (whos incredibly likely to hit that potential) + a lottery pick (thats very likely to be a top pairing defenseman or another 80+ point forward) isn't worth Marc Staal. A first pairing, 24 year old, 30 point shut down D-man.

I know you guys say stats aren't everything, and they aren't, but for a Dman to be DOMINANT, he has to have a bit more production in his game, in my opinion and I'm willing to bet most agree. To be an ELITE all-star, you have to do what Staal does AND put up points... Lidstrom, Pronger are guys that are better then Staal defensively AND put up offense. That's why they're ELITE. (The absolute BEST) Unless you think Staals better defensively then them? Then I'd just say..


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02-27-2011, 02:55 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
He has nearly as many points as our own rookie stepan. So honestly, to consider him with the likes of Stamkos and other elite players makes me : laugh:
Derek Stepan was drafted two years ago, and Hall has more goals and as many assists as this wondrous prospect who gets to take a regular shift with Marian Gaborik. But if you think Stepan = Hall, I'm not sure there's much anyone can say to reason with you.

Quote:
I realize you guys love him and don't want to trade him for anything, but you don't have the organizational depth to trade for staal without giving up a Hall or Eberle. And since neither is proven to be an elite talent at this level (sorry but a 50 point season doesn't put him in the elite level yet) then its going to be one of these guys + for a proven #1 d-man.
And what has Marc Staal proven? I understand he's wonderful defensively, but he's not and will likely never be an offensive force and has yet to even be nominated for a Norris. In no universe would any team trade an elite, first-line forward for a sub-30 point defensive defenseman. As was said, none of Philadelphia, Anaheim or Edmonton gave that up to acquire Chris Pronger- a Hart and Norris winner.

Quote:
I wouldn't trade anyone on your team straight up for staal
That's great, but what sort of point is that supposed to make? Is it any less valid for me to say "I wouldn't trade a bag of pucks for Marc Staal"?

Quote:
If the Rangers win a cup during the next ten years, it will be in large part because of him. And if he continues his play and improves, Staal's 18 will likely hang in the rafters at MSG.
That's amazing. So purely hypothetical future jersey retirements now factor in to a player's worth? Derp.

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02-27-2011, 03:10 AM
  #115
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I think Marc Stall is great at being what he is, but to suggest he couldn't be had for Hall straight up...Something significant would have to be added from the Edmonton side to make it "fair"....Well you are suffering from some pretty serious delusions. Talk about homerism at its finest. What was Stall again 15th overall pick?? /thread


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02-27-2011, 03:12 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
And what has Marc Staal proven?
I began to read your post. Went up until here....then stopped.

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02-27-2011, 03:15 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Derek Stepan was drafted two years ago, and Hall has more goals and as many assists as this wondrous prospect who gets to take a regular shift with Marian Gaborik. But if you think Stepan = Hall, I'm not sure there's much anyone can say to reason with you.
Derp, shows how much you watch teams besides your own. Stepan does not and has not taken regular shifts with Gaborik. He's playing 2nd/3rd line with Wolski and Zuccarello.

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02-27-2011, 03:16 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
I began to read your post. Went up until here....then stopped.
Then you missed a lot of good points.

Still haven't responded to the fact that a superior Chris Pronger received, in his prime, nothing close to what you guys want for Staal; to even, "get Sather to not hang up".

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02-27-2011, 03:27 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by ChokeOnOil View Post
Then you missed a lot of good points.

Still haven't responded to the fact that a superior Chris Pronger received, in his prime, nothing close to what you guys want for Staal; to even, "get Sather to not hang up".
2 times he was traded was essentially as a rental and he then ended up resigning. In addition, when he was initially traded it was before the lockout, therefore, no salary cap which certainly plays a part in todays market. In two of his trades he brought back multiple first round draft picks, not to mention packages that included much more.

So i'm really confused as to what your point is here. The rangers are not a rebuilding team. They have a young core in place and need to add to it to be contenders in the next 2-3 years. Were not looking for packages centered around 1st round draft picks.

This is the reason the package would have to centered around guys that can step in and play in the NHL right now. The only 2 players on your team, that are worthy of bringing staal back in a trade are Eberle and Hall. The reason a package would have to start around them.

And for all you saying Hall WILL BE a superstar. Yes, i do agree with you. However he is NOT YET a superstar. Meaning his value is not of that degree. Maybe he is the next coming of stamkos or datsyuk but you can't expect him to be worth that much when he just hasn't proven he CAN BE.

It's would be like us saying stepan is the next jason spezza. It would be like us comparing McDonagh to a #1 d-man. Obviously he's not going to bring back the same return because he hasn't proven he can handle it yet. But we full on expect him to be that good someday.

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02-27-2011, 03:30 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by SaskOil View Post
What was Stall again 15th overall pick?? /thread
And henrik lundqvist was the 205th overall pick. Does that mean we should trade him for the 100th pick in that years draft.

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02-27-2011, 03:32 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
And for all you saying Hall WILL BE a superstar. Yes, i do agree with you. However he is NOT YET a superstar. Meaning his value is not of that degree. Maybe he is the next coming of stamkos or datsyuk but you can't expect him to be worth that much when he just hasn't proven he CAN BE.

It's would be like us saying stepan is the next jason spezza. It would be like us comparing McDonagh to a #1 d-man. Obviously he's not going to bring back the same return because he hasn't proven he can handle it yet. But we full on expect him to be that good someday.
I totally agree, and to expand on that it would be like saying Marc Staal is a top 5 defenceman in the league right now, I know exactly what your saying! He may be the next coming of Lidstrom or Pronger but he hasn't proven that he CAN BE.

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02-27-2011, 03:33 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Derek Stepan was drafted two years ago, and Hall has more goals and as many assists as this wondrous prospect who gets to take a regular shift with Marian Gaborik. But if you think Stepan = Hall, I'm not sure there's much anyone can say to reason with you.
Derp...i didnt say stepan=hall. I was referring to the previous poster who brought up Hall's point total.

And second, stepan has played most of the season with either zuccarello and wolski (who has not even played 20 games as a ranger) or Fedetenko.

Even if he had played with gaborik, you would know, if you watched our team, that he has not produced like he normally does this year. In fact, he's having the WORST year of his career.

It's good to know how many people can argue over what Marc Staal is worth when you do not know anything about the rangers players or their organization.

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02-27-2011, 03:33 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
And henrik lundqvist was the 205th overall pick. Does that mean we should trade him for the 100th pick in that years draft.
Oops did i forget the ? Some posts are dripping with it, I figured even the 10 watt light bulbs might catch on. Guess not.

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02-27-2011, 03:35 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by SaskOil View Post
I totally agree, and to expand on that it would be like saying Marc Staal is a top 5 defenceman in the league right now, I know exactly what your saying! He may be the next coming of Lidstrom or Pronger but he hasn't proven that he CAN BE.
That still doesnt change the fact that he is worth a lot because he has proven he can shut down the most elite players in the NHL on a game to game basis.

He is easily the best player on our team. Its really amazing to me how you fans think the oilers have enough in your system to get staal for anything less than hall or eberle.

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02-27-2011, 03:36 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by SaskOil View Post
Oops did i forget the ? Some posts are dripping with it, I figured even the 10 watt light bulbs might catch on. Guess not.
Kinda impossible to tell sarcasm when you think the rangers would consider trading the rock of there team for anything less than hall or eberle.

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