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Old
02-26-2011, 04:54 PM
  #326
HomaridII
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Dallas Dave just said that Richards has agreed to waive his NTC is presented with a trade.

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Old
02-26-2011, 04:54 PM
  #327
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Man, imagine if we do get Hanzal ,lol. No more people complaining about us being small down the middle eh .. the dude is huge.

And Stepniak is 6'3 or something like that also no?
But can they fight as good as Pouliot?

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Old
02-26-2011, 04:55 PM
  #328
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If that's our goal then maybe we should play Benny more. He's been playing some great hockey of late...unlike some much higher paid guys.
He's been slowing down lately, young and inconsistent still, I don't know why JM would do that.

Did Minny have to play him 20 minutes a game for us? It's called scouting.

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02-26-2011, 04:56 PM
  #329
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Certainly sounds like it to me too.. **** I don't want Penner..
Why not? He's a great hockey player.

Granted, Montreal has a lot of clueless fans and media, who will no doubt fail to see his effectiveness because his style is the antithesis of what they value, namely the appearance of effort. They will see that he's not pumping his legs all the time, so they'll call him lazy even though he's 6'4" and doesn't need to pump like a madman to keep up. They won't care that he'll routinely go along the boards with two opponents and use his strength to come out with the puck, because if he doesn't go out of his way to paste people, he's soft and wasting his size.

But Penner is excellent at driving puck possession, extremely strong along the boards, and excellent at being in the right place at the right time. He can carry a line playing for the Oilers, so just imagine him as the RW on a line with Cammalleri and Plekanec. And who knows, since Montreal media are clueless and rate a guy like Penner solely on counting numbers, maybe he'll score enough to avoid the labels.

If Penner becomes a Habs, he is my choice as the team's next designated scapegoat. He might also become the team's best winger.

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02-26-2011, 04:57 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Keep telling yourself that...

If we ever trade him, it will be a very glorious day for the team.
They won't trade him, and next year, every clueless analyst in the media will wonder how Scott Gomez has turned his game around so much and why he didn't work this hard this year.

Which is not to say trading Gomez would necessarily be a bad move, given that he is overpaid, but replacing Gomez with nothing directly amounts to throwing away the season.

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Old
02-26-2011, 04:58 PM
  #331
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But can they fight as good as Pouliot?
I hope this is a joke, Pouliot is no enforcer. He shouldn't fight at all, but he is one badass mofo, I'll give him that. Doesn't take **** from opposing players.

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Old
02-26-2011, 04:59 PM
  #332
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Why not? He's a great hockey player.

Granted, Montreal has a lot of clueless fans and media, who will no doubt fail to see his effectiveness because his style is the antithesis of what they value, namely the appearance of effort. They will see that he's not pumping his legs all the time, so they'll call him lazy even though he's 6'4" and doesn't need to pump like a madman to keep up. They won't care that he'll routinely go along the boards with two opponents and use his strength to come out with the puck, because if he doesn't go out of his way to paste people, he's soft and wasting his size.

But Penner is excellent at driving puck possession, extremely strong along the boards, and excellent at being in the right place at the right time. He can carry a line playing for the Oilers, so just imagine him as the RW on a line with Cammalleri and Plekanec. And who knows, since Montreal media are clueless and rate a guy like Penner solely on counting numbers, maybe he'll score enough to avoid the labels.

If Penner becomes a Habs, he is my choice as the team's next designated scapegoat. He might also become the team's best winger.
exactly, ppl will want this guy to hit everything that moves and fight Chara, anything short of that he will be a flop. Guy has consistency issues but he will be 20-25 goal scorer and at least give other teams a big body to deal with.

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:00 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
I hope this is a joke, Pouliot is no enforcer. He shouldn't fight at all, but he is one badass mofo, I'll give him that. Doesn't take **** from opposing players.
Pouliot is 3-0 in fights

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:01 PM
  #334
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He needs to say that, but the reality is, unless he can will the puck to get in more when he's on the ice, he can't do very much.

He's dominating puck possession, generating scoring chances, limiting opponent's scoring chances. But when he's on the ice, the Habs are ridiculously snakebit and can't turn shots into goals. The Habs' shooting percentage is already very low, but with Gomez on the ice it's outright beyond the pale. It's less than half what it's been in previous years.

That stat, BTW, is not a true talent. Call it luck or whatever you like, it's something Gomez just doesn't have a lot of control over. And that stat is driving his low counting numbers and low plus/minus. His -18 is mostly because while his minus numbers are fine, he can't buy a plus. But it's not for lack of trying and not for lack of generating opportunities.

There's even an argument to be made for Gomez playing better than last year, but for his teammates' inability to convert shots into goals.

Gomez's situation, though, is interesting because it's really revealing which media analysts are completely clueless and use counting stats to measure a guy's effort and effectiveness. Interesting, but also highly depressing.
I see it entirely different, and it's not because I am being emotional about it. Obviously it is tough for me to be objective all things considering, but I am a pretty fair guy in general and don't jump to conclusions for nothing.

I guess we have to respectively agree to disagree.

I am not saying Eller or DD are the solution, and I can guarantee you the Habs brass doesn't either. If Gomez is moved, there will be another center coming our way.

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:01 PM
  #335
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They won't trade him, and next year, every clueless analyst in the media will wonder how Scott Gomez has turned his game around so much and why he didn't work this hard this year.
So you're predicting what kind of season next year for Gomez? 65 points?

Do you bet on sports? You seem like you could make yourself rich

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:02 PM
  #336
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He needs to say that, but the reality is, unless he can will the puck to get in more when he's on the ice, he can't do very much.

He's dominating puck possession, generating scoring chances, limiting opponent's scoring chances. But when he's on the ice, the Habs are ridiculously snakebit and can't turn shots into goals. The Habs' shooting percentage is already very low, but with Gomez on the ice it's outright beyond the pale. It's less than half what it's been in previous years.

That stat, BTW, is not a true talent. Call it luck or whatever you like, it's something Gomez just doesn't have a lot of control over. And that stat is driving his low counting numbers and low plus/minus. His -18 is mostly because while his minus numbers are fine, he can't buy a plus. But it's not for lack of trying and not for lack of generating opportunities.

There's even an argument to be made for Gomez playing better than last year, but for his teammates' inability to convert shots into goals.

Gomez's situation, though, is interesting because it's really revealing which media analysts are completely clueless and use counting stats to measure a guy's effort and effectiveness. Interesting, but also highly depressing.
I'd agree that Gomez's ineptitude is largely exaggerated, but I think you're relying too much on stats to determine his play here. Gomez is less dynamic and more of a perimeter player than usual.

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:02 PM
  #337
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He's been slowing down lately, young and inconsistent still, I don't know why JM would do that.

Did Minny have to play him 20 minutes a game for us? It's called scouting.
I never made any mention to playing him more to "showcase" him to other teams. You made a comment about how we shouldnt showcase him by giving him more minutes cuz our goal is to win. I said that if winning is our goal that maybe we should play him more. I think that he could help us by playing him more.

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:03 PM
  #338
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Gomez is going to fake an injury tonight so he don't get traded..LOL. I just hope we don't get Dumont. I'm ok with Penner if the price is right, but Stastny would be killer. Highly doubt he gets moved.

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:04 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Amputechture View Post
I never made any mention to playing him more to "showcase" him to other teams. You made a comment about how we shouldnt showcase him by giving him more minutes cuz our goal is to win. I said that if winning is our goal that maybe we should play him more. I think that he could help us by playing him more.
I understand, sadly Pouliot is not part of our core players right now. (ie. the ones that are counted on to score)

He is nothing but complementary to our attack. At least this is what JM thinks.

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:05 PM
  #340
sheed36
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Why not? He's a great hockey player.

Granted, Montreal has a lot of clueless fans and media, who will no doubt fail to see his effectiveness because his style is the antithesis of what they value, namely the appearance of effort. They will see that he's not pumping his legs all the time, so they'll call him lazy even though he's 6'4" and doesn't need to pump like a madman to keep up. They won't care that he'll routinely go along the boards with two opponents and use his strength to come out with the puck, because if he doesn't go out of his way to paste people, he's soft and wasting his size.

But Penner is excellent at driving puck possession, extremely strong along the boards, and excellent at being in the right place at the right time. He can carry a line playing for the Oilers, so just imagine him as the RW on a line with Cammalleri and Plekanec. And who knows, since Montreal media are clueless and rate a guy like Penner solely on counting numbers, maybe he'll score enough to avoid the labels.

If Penner becomes a Habs, he is my choice as the team's next designated scapegoat. He might also become the team's best winger.
I don't want him because I'd prefer a big body who also provides grit and hits people some times.. From what I've seen of Penner he doesn't hit much and is not very gritty..

So are you saying us Habs fans who don't want Penner are clueless Habs fans since we prefer not having a player that "you" would like?

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:05 PM
  #341
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I'm not a fan of trading for Penner either if he's the target.. Sorry Bob but if the Habs big deal is for Penner this Habs fan won't be happy about that move..
I'll speak for myself, but I'd be happy with Penner.

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Both Bob and Pagnotta say the Habs will be making another move very soon, with Bob saying it will be in the next 24 hours.
Did anyone care to inform Gauthier of that? Set the alarm clock!

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Still a worse team than with Gomez, which goes without saying; that would be very, very painful to watch I'm sure. The amount of, well, crap written about Gomez this year is staggering. But then every year needs a scapegoat, right?
Are you suggesting that you're satisfied with Gomez' performances so far as a Hab, especially this year?

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:10 PM
  #342
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I'll speak for myself, but I'd be happy with Penner.
Congratulations.. You did notice I did say "this Habs fan" meaning me and not all Habs fans right?

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02-26-2011, 05:11 PM
  #343
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I would take Penner for AK any day of the week. At least with Penner we have size that gives us some real estate in front of the net. We play to the perimeter far too much. He doesn't need to be a hitting machine. We need guys that are harder to take off the puck. We're soft. AK's time in Montreal is done. We can't have a top 6 forward who does nothing for 20 games, shows up for 3-4 and then disappears again. Penner will at least complement our small and skilled forwards. He makes $1m more than AK and it's well worth it.

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:12 PM
  #344
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Congratulations.. You did notice I did say "this Habs fan" meaning me and not all Habs fans right?
If you go through the thread, almost everyone is unanimous as to not want Penner.

Me, I agree with Asterix, or Habsterix.. depending on the price of course.

edit: And no AK for Penner will not do.

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:12 PM
  #345
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I would take Penner for AK any day of the week. At least with Penner we have size that gives us some real estate in front of the net. We play to the perimeter far too much. He doesn't need to be a hitting machine. We need guys that are harder to take off the puck. We're soft. AK's time in Montreal is done. We can't have a top 6 forward who does nothing for 20 games, shows up for 3-4 and then disappears again. Penner will at least complement our small and skilled forwards. He makes $1m more than AK and it's well worth it.
Thing is we'd likely have to give up a lot more than AK. Rumours have it as starting with a 1st rounder + prospect. I like penner, but not enough to lose that first rounder.

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:13 PM
  #346
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So you're predicting what kind of season next year for Gomez? 65 points?
Probably something like that, maybe a trifle less, but with 35-40 of it coming at even strength.

It's virtually impossible he'll be as snakebit as he was this year.

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Do you bet on sports? You seem like you could make yourself rich
Too much luck involved. The better team in a NHL game only has about 60% odds of winning it, after all, even if they do play better.

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:14 PM
  #347
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If you go through the thread, almost everyone is unanimous as to not want Penner.

Me, I agree with Asterix, or Habsterix.. depending on the price of course.
Add me to the list NBT, but not for the price that I've been hearing/reading from Oiler fans and the media.

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:16 PM
  #348
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I'd agree that Gomez's ineptitude is largely exaggerated, but I think you're relying too much on stats to determine his play here. Gomez is less dynamic and more of a perimeter player than usual.
I think that, too, is an artifact of people trying to explain his lack of production and is not actually true.

Generally, when a player or a team is accused of playing on the perimeter too much, it's code for the fact that they had chances but couldn't score. That's usually more a matter of chance than perimeter play, but chance is a dirty word.

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Are you suggesting that you're satisfied with Gomez' performances so far as a Hab, especially this year?
Last year I was disappointed in pretty much the whole team, they were terrible, but I think it might have been an artifact of a bad, or incompletely implemented, strategic system.

This year, I'm disappointed with Gomez's counting numbers, but I'm don't think there's much he could do to fix them. I think he's pretty much doing what he can but it's just not happening for him.

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02-26-2011, 05:16 PM
  #349
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He needs to say that, but the reality is, unless he can will the puck to get in more when he's on the ice, he can't do very much.

He's dominating puck possession, generating scoring chances, limiting opponent's scoring chances. But when he's on the ice, the Habs are ridiculously snakebit and can't turn shots into goals. The Habs' shooting percentage is already very low, but with Gomez on the ice it's outright beyond the pale. It's less than half what it's been in previous years.

That stat, BTW, is not a true talent. Call it luck or whatever you like, it's something Gomez just doesn't have a lot of control over. And that stat is driving his low counting numbers and low plus/minus. His -18 is mostly because while his minus numbers are fine, he can't buy a plus. But it's not for lack of trying and not for lack of generating opportunities.

There's even an argument to be made for Gomez playing better than last year, but for his teammates' inability to convert shots into goals.

Gomez's situation, though, is interesting because it's really revealing which media analysts are completely clueless and use counting stats to measure a guy's effort and effectiveness. Interesting, but also highly depressing.
Oh man, I like a lot of the same stats as you, but I can't get behind this conclusion. Gomez's corsi is behind Gionta and Pacioretty, who took off when they left Gomez's line to play with Plekanec. This with a 55.6% offensive zone start for Gomez. I agree that his percentages do his playing card stats a disservice, but I wouldn't say he's close to dominating possession.

You also have to factor in his terrible PP production.

But, I don't see Desharnais or Eller anywhere near taking his role at even strength. For now, Gomez is the best #2C option we have. Although 7.3mil in cap space would go a long way towards fixing that.

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Old
02-26-2011, 05:16 PM
  #350
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Add me to the list NBT, but not for the price that I've been hearing/reading from Oiler fans and the media.
Those Oil fans are insane... or their GM is, can't decide.

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