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Bruins vs Canucks , Saturday Feb 26, 2011 at 7:00 PST - CBC(HD)

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02-27-2011, 03:40 PM
  #801
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Reading the posts here - absurd. The team is #1 overall in the league. Ryan Kesler is a lock for the Selke and a good bet to score 40. The team will likely boast a second consecutive Art Ross winner by a different player than the last one....how often does that happen? With about 20 games to go, the team has a 5 point lead in the conference and has all but wrapped up their division.

The game could have gone either way tonight. Boston scored with 4 minutes left, but it just as easily could have been Vancouver. Relax everyone.....the team is fine.

Mason Raymond does not need to be traded.

Ryan Kesler is still a good hockey player and a damn good second line Centre, perhaps the best in the NHL.

The teams D is good enough. It will improve when Edler and Bieksa return.

Sweeping changes are not necessary. The team is good enough to win, after all they have done just that more than anyone else this year.

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02-27-2011, 03:45 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by Johnny Canucker View Post
Over achieved?
You think a 9 game stretch is more likely to be representative of a team's abilities than a 53 game sample???

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02-27-2011, 03:48 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by topheavyhookjaw View Post
A couple of notes from last night:

re: Raymond

Hopefully the demotion motivates him. His confidence is obviously very low right now and that is having a significant effect on his play. There was criticism a couple of times on here that he wasted possessions by shooting from the wing, my criticism would be that his shot from the wing is harmless because he is afraid of missing the net, playing like he's scared to screw up rather than trying to get anything done. Not playing with a good purpose. That line is more effective when he carries the puck with a purpose, Kesler and Sammy go to good areas to score either on rebounds or via passes and when Raymond carries the puck with a purpose to get to the net or get the puck to scoring areas that line is better. Kesler's limited playmaking ability is exposed when he is the primary puck carrier all the time (same for Samuelsson).


Are you sure you meant to say this? Kesler's playmaking ability isn't limited whatsoever. Last year, he had 50 assists. Limited playmakers don't put those totals on the board. The distinction between this year and last, and this is what I think you actually intended, is that Kesler isn't _trying_ to set up his wingers first and foremost. He's looking for his shot. Passing to wingers is a secondary concern for Kes.


Raymond has struggled, to be sure. And who knows when Raymond will ever pull himself out of the funk he is in. However, now I'm starting to wonder if it isn't Kesler's changed game that is negatively impacting his wingers. He has changed his game to that of a sniper. But within the context of the 2nd line, featuring two players more known for their shooting than their playmaking, it doesn't work. They need him to be the setup guy he was last year.


It's odd. Kesler is so important to the team that coaches require a dual focus of him. He has to go to the 1st unit PP and be the net presence and shooter, but then off of it, they need him to switch back to being the playmaker he was before. But because of the success on the PP, I fear that it has gone to his head and he is starting to take his play on the man advantage and carry it over to ES play. He drives that line. If he doesn't alter his game to start feeding his wingers, the opposition is going to continue taking away his space, and he will continue to get his wrist shot stifled.


Kesler needs quick give and goes with his linemates to create room. It will allow his speed to take over. Then (as someone mentioned), defenders will back off --> which will allow him to start wristing it again. That balance has eluded him thus far.

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02-27-2011, 03:49 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by Zarpan View Post
You think a 9 game stretch is more likely to be representative of a team's abilities than a 53 game sample???
Doesnt seem to matter around here. Lose a game and Kesler's done, Raymond needs to be dealt, the team is not tough enough, the D is not big enough, coach is terrible.........


It's truly absurd.

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02-27-2011, 03:56 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Did you see the defensive lineup they were icing in some of those losses? A healthy Philadelphia team just lost to the bloody Senators. Are they not "ready for the playoffs"?

It's funny, there's some people calling St. Louis, Nashville, and Anaheim lower tier teams that the Canucks should walk over while others are calling them defensive masterminds and "playoff style" teams who the Canucks have no chance against. Which is it?
First off, I was just making an observation. We did lose to some "lower tier" teams. I'm not concerned about those losses or last nights, we aren't playing our best hockey right now but we have plenty of time to get things sorted out before the playoffs start. Even in our losses there have been enough positives to keep me with the belief that this team is good enough to go very far in the playoffs.

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02-27-2011, 04:03 PM
  #806
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LOL at all the posters freaking out when some people have a little something negative to say about the team. The people, such as myself, who didn't like what they saw last night are just stating their opinion. It's the other incredulous posters who seem to be the ones on edge.

If some of our top guys are just mentally not there and looking to the playoffs, then fine. I'm not a mind reader, though. All I see, personally, is what plays out on the ice and what I'm seeing on the ice is our core forwards getting shut down and not being able to fight through it and step up when the team needs some offense. That's what I'm seeing and therefor commenting on. For all you sensitive Sally's, I'm not slagging the team in any way. It's just a concern of mine and we should all have the right to voice our concerns without getting lambasted for ****'s sakes.

Although I like Raymond and still see a bright future for him, I wouldn't be opposed to including him in a package deal for someone like Milan Michalek to play on Kesler's LW.

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02-27-2011, 04:08 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
But we have lost to St.Louis, Nashville and Anaheim recently and they would have to be considered "lower tier" teams than us.
Detroit and Philly have also lost to some "lower tier" teams recently. It happens. We don't really need to get hot for another month anyway.

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02-27-2011, 04:12 PM
  #808
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Detroit and Philly have also lost to some "lower tier" teams recently. It happens. We don't really need to get hot for another month anyway.
Exactly. This is the NHL folks, any team can win on any given night. Thats why there are 7 game playoff series and not a best 1.

We probably don't lose these games with Bieksa and Edler in the lineup also.

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02-27-2011, 04:14 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by JamesBond View Post
Doesnt seem to matter around here. Lose a game and Kesler's done, Raymond needs to be dealt, the team is not tough enough, the D is not big enough, coach is terrible.........


It's truly absurd.
No kidding. It's unbelievable how people unable to look past results when analyzing things. Let's look at how Kesler/Raymond/Samuelsson have performed at EV this season compared to last season:

2010/11

Kesler - 1.8 SOG/game, average distance of 28.9 feet, 10.7% SH%.
Raymond - 2.2 SOG/game, average distance of 31.7 feet, 3.8% SH%.
Samuelsson - 2.1 SOG/game, average distance of 34.7 feet, 6.8% SH%.

2009/10

Kesler - 1.6, 29.4 feet, 5.6%.
Raymond - 1.9, 31 feet, 7.5%.
Samuelsson - 1.9, 34.7 feet, 9.8%.

All three guys are generating more shots than they were last season from about the same places on the ice on average. The only difference is that Kesler has bumped his shooting percentage into the range of the league's elite, Samuelsson has regressed back to around his career average, and Raymond has had pucks go in at about the same rate as a defenceman.

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02-27-2011, 04:25 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
LOL at all the posters freaking out when some people have a little something negative to say about the team. The people, such as myself, who didn't like what they saw last night are just stating their opinion. It's the other incredulous posters who seem to be the ones on edge.
There is nothing wrong with saying something negative about the team. They haven't played particularly well recently. I just think that some posters lack perspective when they turn losing a few games into a theme of not being ready for the playoffs and having serious deficiencies that will be exploited come playoff time. Some of those arguments are unfounded when based on a longer term view than just a few games, and I think it is fair to call that out.

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02-27-2011, 04:46 PM
  #811
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Did you see the defensive lineup they were icing in some of those losses? A healthy Philadelphia team just lost to the bloody Senators. Are they not "ready for the playoffs"?

It's funny, there's some people calling St. Louis, Nashville, and Anaheim lower tier teams that the Canucks should walk over while others are calling them defensive masterminds and "playoff style" teams who the Canucks have no chance against. Which is it?
Clearly the Canucks cannot beat either type of team - that is why they are languishing at the top of the standings.

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02-27-2011, 04:52 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
LOL at all the posters freaking out when some people have a little something negative to say about the team. The people, such as myself, who didn't like what they saw last night are just stating their opinion. It's the other incredulous posters who seem to be the ones on edge.

If some of our top guys are just mentally not there and looking to the playoffs, then fine. I'm not a mind reader, though. All I see, personally, is what plays out on the ice and what I'm seeing on the ice is our core forwards getting shut down and not being able to fight through it and step up when the team needs some offense. That's what I'm seeing and therefor commenting on. For all you sensitive Sally's, I'm not slagging the team in any way. It's just a concern of mine and we should all have the right to voice our concerns without getting lambasted for ****'s sakes.

Although I like Raymond and still see a bright future for him, I wouldn't be opposed to including him in a package deal for someone like Milan Michalek to play on Kesler's LW.
The problem isn't being negative about last night; I don't think too many people were happy with the way the top 6 played. It's when people take it to ridiculous extremes and try to use one or two games as evidence that the team's success is a mirage when there's mountains of evidence to the contrary.

People are jumping over backwards to try and come up with evidence that the Canucks can't beat good defensive teams or that they can't beat physical teams, or that they always lose to weaker teams, or whatever their pet theory of the day is. No matter how much actual evidence is used to rebut that people seem to to just plug their ears and only hear what they want to hear.

The Canucks are the #1 team in the league, have the best G/G, the best GA/G, the best PP, the best goal differential, have the best record vs. Western Conference teams, have 2 of the top 3 point producers, 2 of the top 3 goal scorers, and a top 5 goalie this year. That people think a short .500 stretch with several key players injured and when the team is basically in cruise control can overturn all that success is ridiculous and don't be surprised when people respond to that kind of stuff.

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02-27-2011, 05:13 PM
  #813
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Can anyone tell me what happened on the Lucic winner? It looked like Chara took someone down as the play was going up the ice. The whole team looked kind of stunned as Krejci weaved his way into the zone.

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02-27-2011, 05:42 PM
  #814
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Can anyone tell me what happened on the Lucic winner? It looked like Chara took someone down as the play was going up the ice. The whole team looked kind of stunned as Krejci weaved his way into the zone.
Henrik appeared to be getting mugged in the Boston corner by Chara but you couldn't really see any of it on TV as they followed the puck down the ice.

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02-27-2011, 06:17 PM
  #815
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Are you sure you meant to say this? Kesler's playmaking ability isn't limited whatsoever. Last year, he had 50 assists. Limited playmakers don't put those totals on the board. The distinction between this year and last, and this is what I think you actually intended, is that Kesler isn't _trying_ to set up his wingers first and foremost. He's looking for his shot. Passing to wingers is a secondary concern for Kes.


Raymond has struggled, to be sure. And who knows when Raymond will ever pull himself out of the funk he is in. However, now I'm starting to wonder if it isn't Kesler's changed game that is negatively impacting his wingers. He has changed his game to that of a sniper. But within the context of the 2nd line, featuring two players more known for their shooting than their playmaking, it doesn't work. They need him to be the setup guy he was last year.


It's odd. Kesler is so important to the team that coaches require a dual focus of him. He has to go to the 1st unit PP and be the net presence and shooter, but then off of it, they need him to switch back to being the playmaker he was before. But because of the success on the PP, I fear that it has gone to his head and he is starting to take his play on the man advantage and carry it over to ES play. He drives that line. If he doesn't alter his game to start feeding his wingers, the opposition is going to continue taking away his space, and he will continue to get his wrist shot stifled.


Kesler needs quick give and goes with his linemates to create room. It will allow his speed to take over. Then (as someone mentioned), defenders will back off --> which will allow him to start wristing it again. That balance has eluded him thus far.
I agree with your points about the style of play on the second line. I do stand by my point that Kesler has limited playmaking skill. As Pitseleh pointed out, Samuelsson had an outrageous shooting % last season, and that partially contributed to Kes's high assist totals. At no level of pro-hockey has he put up those kind of playmaking numbers. I would make a significant wager he never hits 50 assists again, and is not a lock for 40 either.

On the point of style of play from that line, I guess a consideration is that if you're Kesler and shooting at high %, you're obviously going to keep shooting a lot. Especially when your left winger is shooting at a defenseman's clip (thanks again Pitseleh). Also consider the stretches of the year when he played with some awful wingers (Tambo, Shirokov, etc) while there were injuries in the lineup. The other thing is Raymond hasn't helped make plays either, you mention the give and go to get into the zone, it doesnt work when your left winger takes a pass and flies down the boards and into the corner or gets checked off the puck more often than not.

If Kesler is a shooter primarily as a centreman, which I think he is and will remain, especially with his improved shot, Raymond might not be a good fit long term unless he can adapt his game to look for teammates more and by extension, go to the net to get garbage, you're playing with two shooters, go get some rebounds.

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02-27-2011, 06:34 PM
  #816
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I wouldn't be nearly as disappointed with these losses if we learned our lesson on how to be better against these teams who play a 'playoff style' game. I can't help but think that this would be the norm in the postseason if we don't learn to switch things up occasionally against teams like these i.e just get the puck on net and not try to look for the perfect play. This was most glaring on the PP - sometimes it just pays to shoot the puck, and the GWG was a good example of this.

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02-27-2011, 06:39 PM
  #817
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I wouldn't be nearly as disappointed with these losses if we learned our lesson on how to be better against these teams who play a 'playoff style' game. I can't help but think that this would be the norm in the postseason if we don't learn to switch things up occasionally against teams like these i.e just get the puck on net and not try to look for the perfect play. This was most glaring on the PP - sometimes it just pays to shoot the puck, and the GWG was a good example of this.
That's what boston is so good at. Even watching the game with my brother who knows next to nothing about hockey and doesn't follow it was saying "the bruins just shoot like crazy towards the net, the canucks need to do more of this"

He's right. It's probably the main reason why the bruins are one of the best road teams in the league, they simplify their road game. They use their points constantly to get shots through. I want to see more wristers thrown at the net by guys like ehrhoff, hamhuis and salo. Especially when teams are blocking your shots, getting quick wristers is a more effective way. They are less predictable and harder to block.

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02-27-2011, 06:48 PM
  #818
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That's what boston is so good at. Even watching the game with my brother who knows next to nothing about hockey and doesn't follow it was saying "the bruins just shoot like crazy towards the net, the canucks need to do more of this"

He's right. It's probably the main reason why the bruins are one of the best road teams in the league, they simplify their road game. They use their points constantly to get shots through. I want to see more wristers thrown at the net by guys like ehrhoff, hamhuis and salo. Especially when teams are blocking your shots, getting quick wristers is a more effective way. They are less predictable and harder to block.
Agreed - people talk about us not getting those lucky bounces, but you gotta shoot it often enough in order to even get those bounces in the first place. If we're missing on those bounces then we gotta play the percentages - more shots, generate more bounces and eventually one of those rebounds have to go in.

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02-27-2011, 08:57 PM
  #819
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LOL at all the posters freaking out when some people have a little something negative to say about the team. The people, such as myself, who didn't like what they saw last night are just stating their opinion. It's the other incredulous posters who seem to be the ones on edge.

If some of our top guys are just mentally not there and looking to the playoffs, then fine. I'm not a mind reader, though. All I see, personally, is what plays out on the ice and what I'm seeing on the ice is our core forwards getting shut down and not being able to fight through it and step up when the team needs some offense. That's what I'm seeing and therefor commenting on. For all you sensitive Sally's, I'm not slagging the team in any way. It's just a concern of mine and we should all have the right to voice our concerns without getting lambasted for ****'s sakes.

Although I like Raymond and still see a bright future for him, I wouldn't be opposed to including him in a package deal for someone like Milan Michalek to play on Kesler's LW.
Wow. You wonder just how good they could be if their core forwards (of whom are at or near the top of the league in goals and points) were not getting shut down and were able to fight through and provide offense. No doubt Daniel would be pushing Gretz's 215 point record and the team would be aiming for the first 82-0 season.

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02-27-2011, 08:59 PM
  #820
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I wouldn't be nearly as disappointed with these losses if we learned our lesson on how to be better against these teams who play a 'playoff style' game. I can't help but think that this would be the norm in the postseason if we don't learn to switch things up occasionally against teams like these i.e just get the puck on net and not try to look for the perfect play. This was most glaring on the PP - sometimes it just pays to shoot the puck, and the GWG was a good example of this.
It's funny. The game was tied 1-1 with 4 minutes left. If the Canucks get the bounce Boston got, none of these comments would be made.

Classic over reaction here.

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02-27-2011, 11:02 PM
  #821
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I like how Kesler's offensive game clearly falling off a cliff because people have figured him out is all Mason Raymond's fault.
Given the amount of time I spent on these boards I have yet to see you make a positive comment regarding kesler or give him any credit for his obvious improvement this year (sans the last few games of his offensive struggles).


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Originally Posted by JamesBond View Post
Reading the posts here - absurd. The team is #1 overall in the league. Ryan Kesler is a lock for the Selke and a good bet to score 40. The team will likely boast a second consecutive Art Ross winner by a different player than the last one....how often does that happen? With about 20 games to go, the team has a 5 point lead in the conference and has all but wrapped up their division.

The game could have gone either way tonight. Boston scored with 4 minutes left, but it just as easily could have been Vancouver. Relax everyone.....the team is fine.

Mason Raymond does not need to be traded.

Ryan Kesler is still a good hockey player and a damn good second line Centre, perhaps the best in the NHL.
The teams D is good enough. It will improve when Edler and Bieksa return.

Sweeping changes are not necessary. The team is good enough to win, after all they have done just that more than anyone else this year.

He's a first liner playing on the second line. He's nearly top 10 in scoring again this year and there are only a few handful centres that are outproducing him and he is still second in goals, while generating selke calibre defense and being a prominent fixture on that top ranked pp unit, playing heavy minutes for the team. I don't think that makes you a second liner. Give that guy a legit playmaking winger on his line and I won't be surprised that he would finish nearly in top 8-10 points wise.

Other than that, I agree with the majority of your post. This board does to tend to over-exaggerate when the team is in a funk.


Last edited by Sayonara77: 02-27-2011 at 11:16 PM.
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02-27-2011, 11:14 PM
  #822
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Given the reaction level to a stretch of .500 hockey, I cannot begin to imagine the implosion should this team not meet playoff expectations.

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02-28-2011, 06:49 PM
  #823
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No kidding. It's unbelievable how people unable to look past results when analyzing things. Let's look at how Kesler/Raymond/Samuelsson have performed at EV this season compared to last season:

2010/11

Kesler - 1.8 SOG/game, average distance of 28.9 feet, 10.7% SH%.
Raymond - 2.2 SOG/game, average distance of 31.7 feet, 3.8% SH%.
Samuelsson - 2.1 SOG/game, average distance of 34.7 feet, 6.8% SH%.

2009/10

Kesler - 1.6, 29.4 feet, 5.6%.
Raymond - 1.9, 31 feet, 7.5%.
Samuelsson - 1.9, 34.7 feet, 9.8%.

All three guys are generating more shots than they were last season from about the same places on the ice on average. The only difference is that Kesler has bumped his shooting percentage into the range of the league's elite, Samuelsson has regressed back to around his career average, and Raymond has had pucks go in at about the same rate as a defenceman.
complaining about statistical noise just isn't that much fun though.

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03-01-2011, 12:01 AM
  #824
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Henrik appeared to be getting mugged in the Boston corner by Chara but you couldn't really see any of it on TV as they followed the puck down the ice.
I was at the game in the Boston zone, and Chara pretty much took Henrik down in front of Thomas after he had gotten up after being hit by Chara along the boards. You can hear everyone in our end of the arena booing about a second before the goal goes in. It was a really close game. The Canucks played really well, but Boston played a little better and the bounces certainly went their way.

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