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Hemsky will not be moved to the Kings unless Schenn is coming the other way

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02-27-2011, 12:26 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
So you would trade Eberle for Hemsky then?

To say Schenn = Brule is akin to saying Eberle = Brule.

What has Schenn done? You mean besides being the best player on the WJT this year and the best player in the WHL by miles this year in his short time there?

Sounds pretty close to Eberle to me.
To be fair, Brayden has yet to play in the NHL. If I was a betting man, however, I would bet Brayden turns into a top 9 forward at worst. It doesn't mean he's less of a known quantity than Eberle. I wish we could ask this question a year ago before either had played in the NHL.

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02-27-2011, 12:28 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Quicksilver ballet View Post
Did we run Paajarvi and Omark for Schenn through the wringer yet?
Not that I have heard...but I wouldn't do it from Edmonton's side. Pajaarvi has just as high of upside with more NHL experience. Neither side will want to give up extra.

From Edmonton's perspective, I would want Schenn and a 3rd rounder for Pajaarvi. Obviously, the Kings would want Schenn for Pajaarvi and at least Omark though, so I think its a non-starter.

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02-27-2011, 12:31 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by OilersMark View Post
To be fair, Brayden has yet to play in the NHL. If I was a betting man, however, I would bet Brayden turns into a top 9 forward at worst. It doesn't mean he's less of a known quantity than Eberle. I wish we could ask this question a year ago before either had played in the NHL.
schenn's had 9 games I beleive with 2 assists an -2 in the NHL.

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02-27-2011, 12:34 PM
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One thing you have to consider moving forward if you are the Oilers is (assuming they want to stay there) how much money are you going to have long term to commit to both Penner and Hemsky. With Eberle and Hall being sure bets to be in the 5-7 mill category in the future and Paajarvi possibly being 3-4 and this year's first round pick possibly in the 5-7 category as well, when you factor in that you still have Horcoff at 5.5, it gets dicey if you even have the money to sign both Hemsky and Penner.

That doesnt even factor in a new deal for Whitney or what Marincin or Petry may command down the road.

Something that I havent seen mentioned much is why not trade Hemsky at the draft? Possibly to Columbus or some other team that may be amenable to some immediate help? Trade Hemsky for a 8-12 pick and draft Siemens or Musil to address the need on defense.

Or use Hemsky to secure two or three possible high value low pay mid level bottom six guys like Clifford and Simmonds? Clifford, Simmonds and the Kings first would not be a bad deal. We could send Jones in return as a rental to take either Clifford or Simmonds roster spot and maybe give a provisional pick if we sign Jones in the offseason as a ufa.

There are many viable options for trading Hemsky for value, if LA is going to be a tight ass about moving Schenn, which is their prerogative.

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02-27-2011, 12:35 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by tom foolery View Post
schenn's had 9 games I beleive with 2 assists an -2 in the NHL.
I think it was 8. Regardless, it's a very small sample size and can't be taken as representative of his true ability. It could be over and it could be under. I would assume it's under but the point is it doesn't give us an adequate view of what he is.

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02-27-2011, 12:36 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by OilersMark View Post
To be fair, Schenn has 0 of both.

Anze Kopitar has never had a ppg season
.

To be fair, Kopi had 81 points in 82 games last year and has 60 points in 62 this year. That's pretty damn close, but I get your argument.

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02-27-2011, 12:37 PM
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It doesn't matter where Schenn would rank as compared to all the Oilers prospects because Schenn would instantly become the highest rated center in the organization.

That's the entire point of trying to get him. Not because he'd be the Oilers best overall prospect, but because he'd fill the void the Oilers have at the center position.

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02-27-2011, 12:37 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
One thing you have to consider moving forward if you are the Oilers is (assuming they want to stay there) how much money are you going to have long term to commit to both Penner and Hemsky. With Eberle and Hall being sure bets to be in the 5-7 mill category in the future and Paajarvi possibly being 3-4 and this year's first round pick possibly in the 5-7 category as well, when you factor in that you still have Horcoff at 5.5, it gets dicey if you even have the money to sign both Hemsky and Penner.

That doesnt even factor in a new deal for Whitney or what Marincin or Petry may command down the road.

Something that I havent seen mentioned much is why not trade Hemsky at the draft? Possibly to Columbus or some other team that may be amenable to some immediate help? Trade Hemsky for a 8-12 pick and draft Siemens or Musil to address the need on defense.

Or use Hemsky to secure two or three possible high value low pay mid level bottom six guys like Clifford and Simmonds? Clifford, Simmonds and the Kings first would not be a bad deal. We could send Jones in return as a rental to take either Clifford or Simmonds roster spot and maybe give a provisional pick if we sign Jones in the offseason as a ufa.

There are many viable options for trading Hemsky for value, if LA is going to be a tight ass about moving Schenn, which is their prerogative.
Betting on future contracts is as bad as betting on future ability. There's a lot of what ifs up above. Besides, unless the Oilers start handing out no-trade clauses, you can make the trade when you run into problems.

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02-27-2011, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tom foolery View Post
how could I trade Eberle for Hemsky? they play on the same team.
unless it's red vs. blue scrimmage at practice , than ya, I would.
Is that a yes?

Humour me and assume they are on different teams or just look at it for value purposes.

Yes or no?

Because that is similar to what we are asking the Kings to do. Granted, I believe Eberle is slightly above Schenn in value but they are close to be sure, and take into account the position the Kings find themselves in with regards to valuing immediate help over waiting for Schenn to develop.

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02-27-2011, 12:39 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
One thing you have to consider moving forward if you are the Oilers is (assuming they want to stay there) how much money are you going to have long term to commit to both Penner and Hemsky. With Eberle and Hall being sure bets to be in the 5-7 mill category in the future and Paajarvi possibly being 3-4 and this year's first round pick possibly in the 5-7 category as well, when you factor in that you still have Horcoff at 5.5, it gets dicey if you even have the money to sign both Hemsky and Penner.

That doesnt even factor in a new deal for Whitney or what Marincin or Petry may command down the road.

Something that I havent seen mentioned much is why not trade Hemsky at the draft? Possibly to Columbus or some other team that may be amenable to some immediate help? Trade Hemsky for a 8-12 pick and draft Siemens or Musil to address the need on defense.

Or use Hemsky to secure two or three possible high value low pay mid level bottom six guys like Clifford and Simmonds? Clifford, Simmonds and the Kings first would not be a bad deal. We could send Jones in return as a rental to take either Clifford or Simmonds roster spot and maybe give a provisional pick if we sign Jones in the offseason as a ufa.

There are many viable options for trading Hemsky for value, if LA is going to be a tight ass about moving Schenn, which is their prerogative.
If all those prospects you just mentioned the Oilers have turn out to be the type of players that command 4M+ contracts that's a good problem to have.

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02-27-2011, 12:39 PM
  #511
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Trying to compare trading Schenn for Hemsky and Eberle for Hemsky is ridiculous. For one, Eberle has proven to be a successful NHL player. More importantly, these two teams are in wildly different positions. The Kings need an injection of top line talent right now to contend in the west, and Hemsky is basically the exact type of player they need to go with their bigger slower forwards.

The Oilers are nowhere near that, they're the worst team in the Western conference, and i'm going to go out on a limb and say that they have been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. 20 games remaining gives them 40 possible points, and with how many points have already been achieved in the west, I don't think it's possible that 88 points gets in.

People need to realize that trades aren't made based on some "hfboards market value", every team will value a player differently. For Los Angeles, Hemsky is a player who problably makes them contenders in the west while Schenn is a junior player with a ton of potential to be a very good 2nd line centre down the road (while they have a couple of other decent prospects at centre). For Edmonton, Hemsky is a bargaining chip that they could do without because of all their other small forwards, while Schenn is a player who would problably go straight to Edmonton and they'd begin to build around him & Gagner as the 1-2 punch at centre, allowing them to draft Larsson (ottawa seems to be the only team with a chance to fall below them, and they'll problably go with a forward).


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02-27-2011, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by OilersMark View Post
To be fair, Brayden has yet to play in the NHL. If I was a betting man, however, I would bet Brayden turns into a top 9 forward at worst. It doesn't mean he's less of a known quantity than Eberle. I wish we could ask this question a year ago before either had played in the NHL.
It doesnt matter. Schenn is a year younger than Eberle. What was Eberle doing at this time last year? Dominating the whl and winning the player of the year. Very similar.

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02-27-2011, 12:41 PM
  #513
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It doesn't matter where Schenn would rank as compared to all the Oilers prospects because Schenn would instantly become the highest rated center in the organization.

That's the entire point of trying to get him. Not because he'd be the Oilers best overall prospect, but because he'd fill the void the Oilers have at the center position.
unless the oilers draft sean couturier than schenn would be the second rated centre.

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02-27-2011, 12:44 PM
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Betting on future contracts is as bad as betting on future ability. There's a lot of what ifs up above. Besides, unless the Oilers start handing out no-trade clauses, you can make the trade when you run into problems.
Is it? How much do you think Hemsky or Penner would be willing to take to stay in Edmonton? Say we give a five year 25mill deal to Hemsky, and he gets hurt the next two years running and misses significant games, still think we could move him with three years at 5mill per?

He would be untradeable at that point.

Forecasting big raises for Eberle and Hall are no brainers. We already know what Horcoff makes and Penner and Hemsky are not going to stay here at the same money they are making now.

These assessments are as simple as counting your fingers. There is no guesswork or magic number fudging being done here.

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02-27-2011, 12:44 PM
  #515
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schenn's had 9 games I beleive with 2 assists an -2 in the NHL.
He played 8 games, 2 assists and -1 this year. You are counting the game he came up on emergency in that one freak game in Vancouver while playing in juniors the year before. (Not saying it shouldn't count, just letting people know that's why some say he has played 9, others 8).

I agree that it's hard to gauge from that what he will be in the future. I don't think he was really given a chance to prove himself at the beginning of the year. Clifford IMO played worse at the beginning of the season, yet was able to stay with the team and improve by LEAPS and BOUNDS. IMO, he's a completely different person today than he was at the start of the season. Clifford was allowed to play on the 4th line, moving up to the 3rd and 2nd at times. They wanted Schenn to either be the 2nd or 3rd line center or go to juniors.

I think a great sample of what B. Schenn is capable of is how he did in his conditioning stint he had in the AHL this year. Of course, the AHL isn't the NHL, but I think it's closer to the NHL than juniors. He played in 7 games with the Monarchs, scoring 3 goals and 4 assists for 7 points and was a +3.

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02-27-2011, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Is that a yes?

Humour me and assume they are on different teams or just look at it for value purposes.

Yes or no?

Because that is similar to what we are asking the Kings to do. Granted, I believe Eberle is slightly above Schenn in value but they are close to be sure, and take into account the position the Kings find themselves in with regards to valuing immediate help over waiting for Schenn to develop.
ok..I wouldn't trade Eberle for Hemsky.
And, I wouldn't trade Hemsky for just Schenn.
Happy?
and sorry, I don't see Eberle and Schenn as comparables.

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02-27-2011, 12:49 PM
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Trying to compare trading Schenn for Hemsky and Eberle for Hemsky is ridiculous. For one, Eberle has proven to be a successful NHL player. More importantly, these two teams are in wildly different positions. The Kings need an injection of top line talent right now to contend in the west, and Hemsky is basically the exact type of player they need to go with their bigger slower forwards.

The Oilers are nowhere near that, they're the worst team in the Western conference, and i'm going to go out on a limb and say that they have been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. 20 games remaining gives them 40 possible points, and with how many points have already been achieved in the west, I don't think it's possible that 88 points gets in.

People need to realize that trades aren't made based on some "hfboards market value", every team will value a player differently. For Los Angeles, Hemsky is a player who problably makes them contenders in the west while Schenn is a junior player with a ton of potential to be a very good 2nd line centre down the road (while they have a couple of other decent prospects at centre). For Edmonton, Hemsky is a bargaining chip that they could do without because of all their other small forwards, while Schenn is a player who would problably go straight to Edmonton and they'd begin to build around him & Gagner as the 1-2 punch at centre, allowing them to draft Larsson (ottawa seems to be the only team with a chance to fall below them, and they'll problably go with a forward).
Its not ridiculous at all. Last year at this time Eberle was an untouchable prospect, and would be whether he was in LA, EDM or timbuktu. This year Schenn is that guy. He and Eberle at similar ages held similar value.

The fact the Kings are a playoff team may entice them to go for the now over the future, this is true, but is it enough to deal Eberle/Schenn for Hemsky?

Think about it.

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02-27-2011, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tom foolery View Post
unless the oilers draft sean couturier than schenn would be the second rated centre.
I suppose.

I don't really want to get into a pissing match over Couturier vs Schenn. All I know is if the Oil managed to have both those guys you're going to see a lot of trade proposals to get Gagner and Cogs off the team.

In all likelihood if the Oil got Schenn they would not draft a center with their first round pick this year.

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02-27-2011, 12:52 PM
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Not that I have heard...but I wouldn't do it from Edmonton's side. Pajaarvi has just as high of upside with more NHL experience. Neither side will want to give up extra.

From Edmonton's perspective, I would want Schenn and a 3rd rounder for Pajaarvi. Obviously, the Kings would want Schenn for Pajaarvi and at least Omark though, so I think its a non-starter.
Anyway it got done, Braydon would look Schenn-sational in Oiler silks.

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02-27-2011, 12:53 PM
  #520
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Its not ridiculous at all. Last year at this time Eberle was an untouchable prospect, and would be whether he was in LA, EDM or timbuktu. This year Schenn is that guy. He and Eberle at similar ages held similar value.

The fact the Kings are a playoff team may entice them to go for the now over the future, this is true, but is it enough to deal Eberle/Schenn for Hemsky?

Think about it.
First, no prospect is untouchable.... Eberle could've easily been traded for the right player.

Second, it absolutely is ridiculous. Los Angeles & Edmonton are in wildly different positions and would value Schenn/Hemsky very differently. Trading Schenn to get Ales Hemsky makes sense for the Kings.

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02-27-2011, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
I suppose.

I don't really want to get into a pissing match over Couturier vs Schenn. All I know is if the Oil managed to have both those guys you're going to see a lot of trade proposals to get Gagner and Cogs off the team.

In all likelihood if the Oil got Schenn they would not draft a center with their first round pick this year.
I understand that....it was just a lighthearted comment.

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02-27-2011, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JBernierFan View Post
He played 8 games, 2 assists and -1 this year. You are counting the game he came up on emergency in that one freak game in Vancouver while playing in juniors the year before. (Not saying it shouldn't count, just letting people know that's why some say he has played 9, others 8).

I agree that it's hard to gauge from that what he will be in the future. I don't think he was really given a chance to prove himself at the beginning of the year. Clifford IMO played worse at the beginning of the season, yet was able to stay with the team and improve by LEAPS and BOUNDS. IMO, he's a completely different person today than he was at the start of the season. Clifford was allowed to play on the 4th line, moving up to the 3rd and 2nd at times. They wanted Schenn to either be the 2nd or 3rd line center or go to juniors.

I think a great sample of what B. Schenn is capable of is how he did in his conditioning stint he had in the AHL this year. Of course, the AHL isn't the NHL, but I think it's closer to the NHL than juniors. He played in 7 games with the Monarchs, scoring 3 goals and 4 assists for 7 points and was a +3.
To be fair last season Eberle played in most of the preseason games and was dominant, yet strangely failed to score even one point, but had several five alarm chances and created offense whenever he was on the ice, yet still got sent down to junior.

From what I saw of Schenn earlier this year he looked similar but not quite on the same level as Eberle was, but he was playing true nhl competition so it more than evens out. Schenn didnt score but was playing mainly with scrubs and still generated chances and offense.

Eberle=Schenn, Finkle is Einhorn.

Or close enough.

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02-27-2011, 12:56 PM
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First, no prospect is untouchable.... Eberle could've easily been traded for the right player.

Second, it absolutely is ridiculous. Los Angeles & Edmonton are in wildly different positions and would value Schenn/Hemsky very differently. Trading Schenn to get Ales Hemsky makes sense for the Kings.
Hemsky = not the right player.

Do they?

Does it?

It will only be 40hrs or so and we will find out who was being ridiculous and who wasnt.

Btw, I hope for my teams sake, I will be the foolish one.

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02-27-2011, 01:00 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Hemsky = not the right player.

Do they?

Does it?

It will only be 40hrs or so and we will find out who was being ridiculous and who wasnt.

Btw, I hope for my teams sake, I will be the foolish one.
Hemsky is not the right player for the OILERS to be trading for. He is the right player for the KINGS to be trading for.

Like I said, teams don't trade for players based on some "hfboards fair market value", every team values players differently. The Kings should value Hemsky higher than Schenn, the Oilers should value Schenn higher then Hemsky, so there should be room to work if egos and emotions don't get in the way.

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02-27-2011, 01:02 PM
  #525
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Schenn won't be traded for Hemsky.

Dean Lombardi wouldn't trade Wayne Simmonds for Ilya Kovalchuk. He will not give up Brayden Schenn for Ales Hemsky.

But that's just what I believe from his track record. It also seems like he has totally given up on the Hemsky thing and is going after Richards. We probably won't get him, but I think if he can't get Richards, he'll go for Booth.

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