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How Long Does Mats Zuccarello Get a Pass From NYR fans ?

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Old
02-28-2011, 02:19 AM
  #26
The Mouth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfence033 View Post
Why not? Where should they be? A 160 pound Zuke getting pounded on by the Chara-Weber-Pronger's of the world on a power-play? You want your best talent out there on the ice, but the idea that the best skilled shooters on the team should be parked in front is insane. That's fine for guys like Patric Hornqvist, who are tailor-made to take the beating to pot the trash goals from in front, but I don't want Zuccarello getting unnecessarily pounded on on an already atrocious power-play regardless of who of the Ranger forwards are on the ice and where they are positioned.
So even strength he doesn't get pounded ? But On the PP he would get more pounded ?

doesnt make a lick of sense

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02-28-2011, 02:22 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
The coach is in love with him. that's why he doesn't sit. he doesn't belong on the PP point either.

He belongs up front. he is a supposed goal scorer same with Wolski.

You put your best shootout players at the point on a PP. Doesn't make sense

BTw every time i criticize a player he goes off. So lets hope MZA gets it going.
He is not primarily a goalscorer, he's a playmaker and he does create plays constantly. Like mentioned I think we should use force on worrying for other players than MZA for now. Our highest goalscorer is Boyle with 20 goals(!). Love the Boylemania and his game, but that is worrying enough. That a player who scored 4 last season leads this team in scoring. It's almost a miracle that we're even in a play off spot now, but the reason we are is team effort. Community chipping in. That will leave out the big numbers for the supposed "point players"

One night everybody wants Christensen out, the next night he scores 4 points! Weird season all over. Sleeper team, perhaps.. But not a contender yet, not just yet.

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02-28-2011, 02:23 AM
  #28
Dfence033
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Because the expectations on this site are for rookies to immediate produce like their top-end comparison players. I understand that it's "hockey futures," but things take time, and players develop on their own. I don't see how keeping him in the NHL could possibly be adversely affecting his development. It's not as if he is demonstrating an utter lack of confidence or inability to skate and play with the big boys, so why replace him? He isn't hurting the team and any potential replacement from the Whale would be lateral at best. Sending him down might actually be detrimental to his development and could crush his confidence, since he HASN'T been out of place on this squad.

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02-28-2011, 02:26 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
So even strength he doesn't get pounded ? But On the PP he would get more pounded ?

doesnt make a lick of sense
How does that not make a "lick of sense?" You do know that being "up front" on a power-play means having your @$$ parked right in front of the other teams net, looking for screens and deflections, leaving yourself open to being hit and knocked around by the other teams top PKing defenders? Even strength he will still get hit, but his skating skills can be more elusive in open-ice when he doesn't remain stationary, setting himself up for hits. If that doesn't make sense, then, without trying to sound ultimately rude, you should watch how real power-plays work (not the Rangers).

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Old
02-28-2011, 02:30 AM
  #30
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I think you are going for a minor controversy with this, and with so many readers around at trade deadline time

Zuccs out there getting involved and holding his own, points or no points. He gets the system and can play it, I'm not sure I could say the same for Grachev, but who knows.

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Old
02-28-2011, 02:33 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
The coach is in love with him. that's why he doesn't sit. he doesn't belong on the PP point either.

He belongs up front. he is a supposed goal scorer same with Wolski.

You put your best shootout players at the point on a PP. Doesn't make sense

BTw every time i criticize a player he goes off. So lets hope MZA gets it going.
He's not a supposed goal scorer. He has always been known for his creativity and has always been a pass-first guy.

He has looked better on the point than anyone else we've had there this season.

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Old
02-28-2011, 02:35 AM
  #32
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who exactly would you like to see in his place right now? It's not a free pass. He's a rookie call-up that creates scoring chances even if he's not scoring, is always the first one back defensively, can score in the shootout...can't really ask for more

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Old
02-28-2011, 02:42 AM
  #33
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Interesting.

Yes, he has not scored many goals, but hasn´t he produced??

16 points in 29 games: 0,55 p/game

Let´s look at the other forwards on the team:

Fedotenko: 19 points in 49 games: 0,38 p/game
Frolov: 16 points in 43 games: 0,37 p/game
Avery: 22 points in 64 games: 0,34 p/game
Christensen: 18 points in 47 games: 0,38 p/game
Prust: 23 points in 64 games: 0,36 p/game
Wolski: 28 points in 57 games: 0,49 p/game
Anisimov: 31 points in 64 games: 0,48 p/game
Boyle: 32 points in 64 games: 0,5 p/game
Prospal: 6 points in 11 games: 0,54 p/game

In points/game Zuccarello has 4 forwards better than him; Stepan, Callahan, Dubinsky and Gaborik.....and Zuccarello has pass?? Zuccarello also has much less total ice time than these.

Yes, he should have scored more goals, but also, some of his brilliant passes should have been put into the back of the net by his team mates. Some of his passes have been just unbelievable good, and he for sure had deserved at lest 7-8 more assist points.

But of course, if Zuccarello as a rookie is expected to be the teams point leader, he has been a disappointment, but maybe Tortorella likes what he sees and believes in his future? I think we will se a much better Zuccarello with much more confidence and a real good production already next year.

As many here have already said; If Zuccarello should be sent down, what about the most of the other forwards? Anisimov has zero points in his last 5 games, and has produced less points p/game. Should he go down to AHL or benched?

It´s all about expectation. I think zuccarello has deserved to be in the team, but of course he needs to keep playing good, and it would be good for him to get a few goals in the next games. He is fully aware that it is much easier for him to be sent down than many others, because he doesn´t have to be waived.

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Old
02-28-2011, 02:51 AM
  #34
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I thought it was premature to bring him up so soon, but that is the state of the NYR's. No first line players but one and a bunch of masquarading 2nd and 3rd liners who can find the net on occassion. By default he belongs here because there is nobody in the AHL that is ready.

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Old
02-28-2011, 03:29 AM
  #35
blixt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
1. yes we are watching the same games. if he's so creative right now how come he has gone 16 games without scoring in the NHL.

Bottom line is production especially for a guy who's only reason to be here is to put pucks in the net.

I think MZA needs to be in Connecticut to develop his game not learning on the fly in the NHL. Especially when he is here to score and doesn't.

You are making a comparison to other players on the team. I'm asking you a rookie who goes 16 games without scoring may not belong on any NHL club no less the Rangers.

I'm sure plenty of players on the Whale can go 16 games without scoring a goal.

He is strong on the puck and works hard. He is a very likeable player and I want him to succeed.

But how long is he absolved from any criticism ?

We have to see how the players work individually and look at the different skills that they have. On a team there are many different individuals and your argument is weak when you just focus on a person who has to put the pucks in the net. Zucarello have a role that I believe fits perfectly with Wolski and step.

sorry for my bad English, but hope you understand


Last edited by blixt: 02-28-2011 at 03:39 AM.
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Old
02-28-2011, 04:22 AM
  #36
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This thread can't be for real? Really? Right now w/ the way Zuc's can hold onto the puck and create plays/space for his teammates is far more important than him scoring goals; which will come. He's due. The fact however remains that Zuc's plays a puck possession game and we need more of those on this team so we can actually hold onto a puck instead of dumping and chasing all the time. He needs a sniper on his line.

On top of that ability he's all hustle on the ice -- plays back and forth at both ends. 8 points in his last 15 games is nothing to cry about.

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Old
02-28-2011, 04:45 AM
  #37
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He's playing at a half a point per game pace and he's on an entry level contract, and he's not taking a spot from someone who could be better then him.

What's the problem?

We have bigger problems to worry about on this team, a lot of bigger problems. When someone can name someone who can replace MZA and do a better job then you can start making the argument he needs to be sent down.

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Old
02-28-2011, 04:49 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
29 games
16 points
5 shootout goals
+2
44 hits
16 blocked shots
2 penalty minutes
4 giveaways
10 takeaways

how is he getting a free pass?

Both him and Avery has been playing great even though they struggled to score goals.
Avery has been playing great?

Something like 3 points in 16 games. Minus 8 in that time. Losing ice time. Not agitating like he used to.

Which part of his game has been great?

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Old
02-28-2011, 05:16 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Avery has been playing great?

Something like 3 points in 16 games. Minus 8 in that time. Losing ice time. Not agitating like he used to.

Which part of his game has been great?
The story of this season for Avery has been "almost!" He makes things happen out of nothing. He forces turnovers and creates chances, and ALMOST scores. He just barely misses. I feel bad for him, because he's given all he's got. He's just not a natural finisher. He's a very sloppy finisher. He certainly deserves a few bounces and a few more goals this year, but sometimes you don't get the bounces you deserve, and we all know he never gets the benefit of the doubt from the referees or linesmen. I'll always be an Avery fan, but he was far more effective in his first stint here, and it's not even really his fault. He's been trying, with much less ice-time, and he's still a very solid energy guy with above average smarts and speed for a bottom 9 player. But, the team needing him ended a while ago, and his role with the team has clearly ended with the emergence of Boyle and Prust.

Maybe he would've been better if he never left. If he didn't ask for the moon, and Dallas didn't give it to him, maybe he would've had career years as a Ranger, but he lost momentum when he went to Dallas, and even though he's been solid for us, he hasn't been nearly as effective at any aspect of the game as he was when he first showed up in NY.

He's a good depth guy, but not even worth half his actual salary anymore. Fedotenko has been better, when he's in the lineup. If we lose Prospal AND Fedotenko (I think one of them should be back as a bottom 9 / depth player on a one year deal), I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Avery at 1.9 mil, but I also wouldn't mourn his departure either. I'd also consider bringing him back as a bottom 9 / depth forward at 1-2 years, 1 million per after his current contract is up, but again, there are probably better, younger, and cheaper options.

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Old
02-28-2011, 06:14 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
He hasn't scored a regulation goal in 16 games. if you're 5'7 rookie and you go 16 games without scoring in the NHL you should be sent down.

I know he's a shootout specialist, but how bout winning some games in regulation and in the playoffs their are no shootouts.

To me he gets a pass from both ranger fans and Torts.
Shootouts = Playoffs

I say keep him up until we clinch. I'd like to see Grachev play with skill guys like Stepan and Wolski come April.

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Old
02-28-2011, 06:25 AM
  #41
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It hurts a little bit to hear you guys talk about Zucc being in Rangers with a free pass and that he dont belong there. But im not more naive then i know the truth hurts sometimes. The only thing i can say is that im damn proud of the little fella.

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02-28-2011, 06:46 AM
  #42
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Zuccarello needs to stay up and learn the ropes and he's doing just that. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

He's been money in shoot outs. He's a decent passer and play maker. He's got speed.

Many players on this team have gone AWOL at points this season, no one more so then Avery.

You couldn't be more off base on this one Mouth.

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02-28-2011, 06:50 AM
  #43
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Truth for me is I've been nothing less than thrilled with MZA.

The guy hustles his ass off, he hits people twice his size and he makes people around him better.

What are some of you guys watching??? Do you really fail to see him routinely beat people to pucks and set up scoring chances??? His backcheck is always spot on. He works the boards like a guy twice his size..

Like any rookie, maybe he can use some more seasoning, but I'm not going to get down on him for lack of goal scoring when nobody on this team scores consistently.

He's getting the NHL speed and physicality down, he'll be better off for it next year when he starts camp and knows EXACTLY what its like to play in the nhl. Hopefully he even gets some playoff experience.

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02-28-2011, 07:02 AM
  #44
I Am Chariot
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a. MZA shows a level of creativity the rest of this team does not have.

b. He was also likely promised he'd get every opportunity to play in the NHL when courted by the Rangers from the Euro league ( this is good for our next European target )

c. Is there a better solution? Who's spot is he really stealing?

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02-28-2011, 07:26 AM
  #45
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Like I wrote in the game thread yesterday, he should try to shot more instead of "always" passing...

I also think next year he'll do much better...but I've been wrong before...

But to those keeping score, how has he been doing point wise so fare ? It's his first season so expectations should'nt be to high...right ?

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02-28-2011, 07:32 AM
  #46
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There's not one player in Hartford that can do that MZA does.

And while he is not scoring goals, he is still part of a line that on nights mor eoften than not seem to be the line driving the Rangers offence.

He's producing at .55pts per game, which is better than Anisimov and a pubic hair behind Stepan

The lack of goal scoring on this team can be looked at no further than Gaborik having a down and injury filled season.

Even if Gabby was on pace for a 30 goal season the lack of scoring wouldn't be so bad.

Would we all like more goals from Zooks? Sure, but no one in the minors has the ability to do it, and no one in the system can provide what Zooks provides on a nightly basis.

Sending him down sends the wrong message to the team

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Old
02-28-2011, 08:17 AM
  #47
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I agree Zuc not scoring a goal in the last 16 games is pretty much unacceptable. He is an offensive player he needs to score. I know he is more of a playmaker than sniper but he needs to score goals at a better pace than he is. He gets a lot of powerplay time and since getting called up he has played with our better offensive forwards.

I like the kid he brings creativity to the lineup but I dont think he's been that good. But he is young and probably still adjusting to the NA style of game so you give him more time.


Last edited by XLJ: 02-28-2011 at 09:03 AM.
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Old
02-28-2011, 08:30 AM
  #48
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Hes had chances, has been around the puck, has had plenty of assists. He's engaged in the play, the effort is consistent.

I'd stick with him. Its nice if hed score to get the monkey off the back, but its not like hes hurting the team right now.

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Old
02-28-2011, 09:08 AM
  #49
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Guy isn't here to score goals. He is here to make plays and create chances, and he has done that.

Over .5 PPG is okay, even though he is a 1 dimensional player he is still a rookie, and the shootout has been an added bonus.

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02-28-2011, 09:09 AM
  #50
GAGLine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
1. yes we are watching the same games. if he's so creative right now how come he has gone 16 games without scoring in the NHL.

Bottom line is production especially for a guy who's only reason to be here is to put pucks in the net.

I think MZA needs to be in Connecticut to develop his game not learning on the fly in the NHL. Especially when he is here to score and doesn't.

You are making a comparison to other players on the team. I'm asking you a rookie who goes 16 games without scoring may not belong on any NHL club no less the Rangers.

I'm sure plenty of players on the Whale can go 16 games without scoring a goal.

He is strong on the puck and works hard. He is a very likeable player and I want him to succeed.

But how long is he absolved from any criticism ?
What exactly is he going to learn in the AHL? He's already led the SEL in scoring and been the MVP. Coming over here, he needed to learn to play on the smaller ice surface, and he's done that. So what if he hasn't scored a goal recently. The whole team has struggled to score. In his last 16 games, he has 8 assists. I'll take .5 ppg from a rookie. And his success in the shootout does help this team. Every point matters, as we saw last year.

There is no one we can replace him with who will do better anyway, so what's the point? MZA isn't getting a pass. He doesn't need one.

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