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LAK - Justin Williams signs new 4-year contract, $14.6M

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Old
02-28-2011, 11:19 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
03-04 as well. You have to combine the Flyers and Hurricanes numbers (79 games)
Correct. Sorry, I skimmed over that and didn't catch it.

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02-28-2011, 11:22 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
No, he doesn't have any of those. What he does have, is a penitence for long term injury.

Throw semantics in any way you'd like, but he's injury prone. In fact, one of the most injury prone players in the league.

Again, best of luck to him. He's an exciting player to watch and I'd never wish injuries on anyone (outside of maybe Avery and a couple others), but I'm expecting him to get injured again, as should the rest of you.
Numbers are frivolous if you don't look at the meaning behind them. You can call him injury prone, and all of us will look at you as Captain Obvious, but the nature of his injuries aren't debilitating to him as a healthy hockey player.

The team doctors gave Lombardi the thumbs up on him being healthy going forward, and I would be more inclined to trust their opinion over someone with access to tsn.ca All players are injured here or there, I don't expect Williams to be immune to that fact, but I am confident in his ability to stay healthy for the long-term going forward throughout the duration of his contract and to still be a NHL player by the end of it.

He's fast, he's smart, he's shifty, and he is a good hockey player. It is a great contract and the Kings can easily pay it.

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02-28-2011, 11:25 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Numbers are frivolous if you don't look at the meaning behind them. You can call him injury prone, and all of us will look at you as Captain Obvious, but the nature of his injuries aren't debilitating to his as a healthy hockey player.

The team doctors gave Lombardi the thumbs up on him being healthy going forward, and I would be more inclined to trust their opinion over someone with access to tsn.ca All players are injured here or there, I don't expect Williams to be immune to that fact, but I am confident in his ability to stay healthy for the long-term going forward for the duration of his contract.

He's fast, he's smart, he's shifty, and he is a good hockey player. It is a great contract and the Kings can easily pay it.
The numbers I gave you show a pattern. That's not debatable with whatever excuses you'd like to post, they're fact.

He can be as healthy as he wants, but at the end of the day he has a long history of getting injured, and injured for a long time. For you to sit there and basically say "Its all in the past, he's healthy and will remain healthy forever" is mind boggling.

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02-28-2011, 11:27 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
No, he doesn't have any of those. What he does have, is a penitence for long term injury.

Throw semantics in any way you'd like, but he's injury prone. In fact, one of the most injury prone players in the league.

Again, best of luck to him. He's an exciting player to watch and I'd never wish injuries on anyone (outside of maybe Avery and a couple others), but I'm expecting him to get injured again, as should the rest of you.
You make some valid points. You said ALL Kings fans say he is not injury prone but I have called him fragile for a couple of times already.

No matter if he was unlucky or whatever. Any player can be called injury prone if you have had that many injuries...freak incident or not.

Yet, that's also the reason why Dean was able to sign him for this cap hit, dont ignore that. You give something (years) and you get something (top winger for a good price). He has been healthy all year. To expect an one/two year deal for that price is ridiculous.

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02-28-2011, 11:29 AM
  #105
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Williams is 38th in the NHL in scoring and the 12th highest scoring RW in the league today. He has more points than Kessel, Gaborik, Hossa, Horton, Penner, Backes, Franzen, Versteeg, etc.

For all you experts thinking this is a questionable signing, tell me what you think he'd earn in an open market that is bare of quality free agent forwards this coming summer.

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02-28-2011, 11:34 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Williams is 38th in the NHL in scoring and the 12th highest scoring RW in the league today. He has more points than Kessel, Gaborik, Hossa, Horton, Penner, Backes, Franzen, Versteeg, etc.

For all you experts thinking this is a questionable signing, tell me what you think he'd earn in an open market that is bare of quality free agent forwards this coming summer.
4-5 with a similar term.

I wouldn't like that either. 3.5 is still a lot of money for someone not contributing due to injury.

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02-28-2011, 11:35 AM
  #107
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Penner or Hemsky for just a slight bit more money?

I think what really is bothering you (RStar from Red Deer) is that LA didn't acquire one of your Oilers for Brayden Schenn.

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02-28-2011, 11:35 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
The numbers I gave you show a pattern. That's not debatable with whatever excuses you'd like to post, they're fact.

He can be as healthy as he wants, but at the end of the day he has a long history of getting injured, and injured for a long time. For you to sit there and basically say "Its all in the past, he's healthy and will remain healthy forever" is mind boggling.
I don't know any way to explain it clearer. You are stuck on rails. The pattern is obvious, we all see it, but you aren't expanding on the idea, you aren't looking at the why of it. You cite the numbers over and over, but don't list why those numbers are there or the injuries that caused them.

Broken hands and bones don't mean you're a cripple for the rest of your life, it happens to people all the time, and they sometimes end up to be pretty good athletes, and almost all the time end up to being physically fine and fit for sports.

I am not saying he is going to remain healthy going forward forever, but none of his past injuries have any bearing or significance on him receiving injuries in the future. He is just like any other hockey player at this point, the medical professionals confirmed it.

If you are going to use logic and statistics, you have to know that this is binomial distribution. Past trials have no bearing on future results. If I break my finger, it has no bearing on me breaking my leg next year, which has no bearing on me breaking my arm. Now, if I had a concussion, it would have a bearing on me having another concussion next year and the year following, but the injuries Williams has had doesn't show any correlation. You are drawing a line to connect the dots without even looking at the dots. They are mutually exclusive.

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02-28-2011, 11:38 AM
  #109
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you cant use the past against someone...he's healthy and ready to go, and im sure hes learned some lessons on how to prevent injuries because he barely gets touched now

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02-28-2011, 11:44 AM
  #110
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its crap you get paid that much for being the biggest diver in the league
We didn't re-sign Brown. It's Williams we're talking about.

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02-28-2011, 11:48 AM
  #111
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On a pace for 26 G, 38 A, 65 P, +19 Good numbers for a skill player that seems to be an excellent fit in an organization that lacks veteran forwards. Very happy for him and our team, and the price is right!

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02-28-2011, 11:49 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
I don't know any way to explain it clearer. You are stuck on rails. The pattern is obvious, we all see it, but you aren't expanding on the idea, you aren't looking at the why of it. You cite the numbers over and over, but don't list why those numbers are there or the injuries that caused them.

Broken hands and bones don't mean you're a cripple for the rest of your life, it happens to people all the time, and they sometimes end up to be pretty good athletes, and almost all the time end up to being physically fine and fit for sports.

I am not saying he is going to remain healthy going forward forever, but none of his past injuries have any bearing or significance on him receiving injuries in the future. He is just like any other hockey player at this point, the medical professionals confirmed it.

If you are going to use logic and statistics, you have to know that this is binomial distribution. Past trials have no bearing on future results. If I break my finger, it has no bearing on me breaking my leg next year, which has no bearing on me breaking my arm. Now, if I had a concussion, it would have a bearing on me having another concussion next year and the year following, but the injuries Williams has had doesn't show any correlation. You are drawing a line to connect the dots without even looking at the dots. They are mutually exclusive.
Thread winner.

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02-28-2011, 11:51 AM
  #113
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2000-2001 Flyers 63 <-- Rookie year, so probably coach/GM decision
2001-2002 Flyers 75 <-- Full year
2002-2003 Flyers 41 <-- Lockout year, so full year
2003-2004 Flyers 47 <-- Add to below
2003-2004 Hurricanes 32 <-- 47+32 = 79 = Full year
2005-2006 Hurricanes 82 <-- Full year
2006-2007 Hurricanes 82 <-- Full year
2007-2008 Hurricanes 37 <-- Injury #1 (Torn ACL)
2008-2009 Hurricanes 32 <-- Recovering from Injury #1 still
2008-2009 Kings 12 <-- Same year after trade
2009-2010 Kings 49 <-- Injury #2 (Broken leg)
2010-2011 Kings 62 <-- Full year
I'm seeing a torn ACL and a broken leg as 2 major injuries in his entire career. I'm really not seeing the "injury prone" moniker. As Kings fans are saying, he's had a couple unlucky major injuries with no lagging effects. We'll take our chances.

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02-28-2011, 11:58 AM
  #114
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Williams really earned this extension more than anything. He's never go to be a PPG winger but his overall game is solid enough to where it compensates for any offensive deficiencies. At 29 years old, 4M is about market value for a player of his caliber.

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02-28-2011, 12:12 PM
  #115
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no way DL could have replaced JW with a better player at a better price than that

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02-28-2011, 12:19 PM
  #116
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Happy happy happy!

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02-28-2011, 12:26 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by PRMan View Post
I'm seeing a torn ACL and a broken leg as 2 major injuries in his entire career. I'm really not seeing the "injury prone" moniker. As Kings fans are saying, he's had a couple unlucky major injuries with no lagging effects. We'll take our chances.
Hey, someone did some research rather than simply looking at the numbers. You've earned a cookie.



Seriously, Williams isn't injury-prone. His first long term injury was bad luck. He was doing a 5k run for charity and overexerted himself. Can't speak about his second, but I'd imagine it's another freak occurrence.

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02-28-2011, 12:28 PM
  #118
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Very fair deal for the Kings. I know they had been talking but I figured it would be a situation where either L.A. played wait-and-see on a full season or Williams would look at this as his last chance to cash in big on the open market coming off a healthy, productive year and heading into free agency.

It's basically what they are paying him now and he's been an exceptional value for them at that price this season.

The injuries, meh, the guy is probably the hardest-luck player in that department. Sure, there is aggregate wear to a player but that won't kick in all that soon. Otherwise, they are pretty much all unrelated. Even though he's injured both knees, it was a situation where an injury in one created a problem in the other, totally separate incidents. Then he hurts his hand, breaks his leg, etc. It's like a game of Operation going over his injury history but none of the problems are related and he's shown no wear this year even coming off a nasty break last season.

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02-28-2011, 12:34 PM
  #119
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Hey, someone did some research rather than simply looking at the numbers. You've earned a cookie.



Seriously, Williams isn't injury-prone. His first long term injury was bad luck. He was doing a 5k run for charity and overexerted himself. Can't speak about his second, but I'd imagine it's another freak occurrence.
It was. Another stroke of bad luck, anyone would have broken their leg if this same thing had happened to them.


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02-28-2011, 12:35 PM
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Can't speak about his second, but I'd imagine it's another freak occurrence.
He went into the boards against Phoenix and a guy pulled him down and they both fell on his leg which was trapped under him. Snapped it pretty easily.

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02-28-2011, 01:05 PM
  #121
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its crap you get paid that much for being the biggest diver in the league
Not a Kings fan, but what a dumbas* comment. And some wonder why Leaf fans get soo much crap around here. Pathetic

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02-28-2011, 03:24 PM
  #122
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I think the faith the DL showed by signing him long-term despite his injury record will only help to improve his already outstanding play. Hopefully it'll motivate him to stay in the best shape possible to not be injured. I really like both moves DL made today.

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02-28-2011, 04:29 PM
  #123
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Another guy I've always liked. Solid player, a bit injury-prone but when he's healthy he's a decent player.

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02-28-2011, 04:43 PM
  #124
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The biggest concern for Justin Williams is the knee. He first tore it with the Flyers and it was his ACL and MCL in 2003 and when he tore it again with Carolina 2008 again tearing both the ACL and MCL. During his recovery, he ruptured his Achilles tendon which was somewhat of an injury of compensation for the weakness in his knee. He attempted to come back too soon from rehab and participate in a distance run.

He has broken his left hand twice as well. He has also broken his leg.

I think independent of one another, those injuries wouldn't be as severe. But any time you totally tear your knee up once it's a big deal. When you do it twice, it's a huge deal. When you rupture the Achilles tendon all on the same leg, it's a tremendous deal. Then, when you break that same leg it just adds up. Justin Williams body is durable, all except for his right leg from which all his injuries in which he has missed considerable time have originated. He hasn't missed as many games as he could have, hypothetically, due to the fortunate timing of those injuries in relation to offseason recovery time.

I also still find it hilarious that butt hurt Montreal fans have trolled his wikipedia page.

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Williams posted 7 goals and 11 assists in the 2006 playoffs, although his illegal high-sticking to injure Koivu's eye was Justin Williams' most significant play in the 2006 NHL playoff season, as the Montreal Canadiens were in control of Game 3 in Montreal, which would have given Montreal a 3-0 series lead, however Williams' injuring Koivu's eye (which took out the Canadiens' best player, while the referees did not even call a high-sticking penalty on Williams) turned the momentum in Game 3 as the Carolina Hurricanes would go on to win Game 3 to trail Montreal in the series 2-1 instead of down 3-0. For the rest of the series, Montreal had to play without Koivu (whose eye was severely injured by Williams' illegal high-sticking), while Williams did not receive any suspension for his illegal high-sticking, and was allowed to continute playing in the Hurricanes' eventual series win (in six games).

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Old
02-28-2011, 05:01 PM
  #125
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Great signing, Deano! JW has been our steadiest winger all season, and he brings great intangibles to the team as well. Glad we locked him up for as long as we did--he obviously took a pay cut to play in LA.

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