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[VAN/ANA] Maxim Lapierre and MacGregor Sharp for J. Perreault and 2013 3rd

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Old
02-28-2011, 07:24 PM
  #151
Wisp
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Originally Posted by Johnny Canucker View Post
because I dont want another MAtt Cooke v2.0?? I dont like how when cooke was here we would all have to defend his dirty hits and non fighting, then when he left we blast him for that. I dont want another Cooke
No, man, you worry. You've concocted three different imaginary reasons on as to why he'll be disasterous. Worst case scenario is he's waived. "He'll be bad in the locker room, he'll be like matt cooke and be dirty, I'll have to defend him on the internets."


Not sure why you care what others will think.

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02-28-2011, 07:25 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by timorousme View Post
its the fighting. he's too dirty of a player not to have the honour to back up his actions.
Sure at times he was a coward. But all those positives should have outweight the negatives of not dropping the gloves from time to time.

Theres a bunch of agitators who don't necessarily answer the bell all the time.

Kirk Maltby almost never fights but threw a lot of questionable hits, and agitated back in the days. Yet I don't see wings fan hating on him. If anything the maltby-draper-mccarthy line is consider a key element for the success of the wings in the late 90s and early 2000s.

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02-28-2011, 07:27 PM
  #153
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Cooke was good for us, though I wouldn't want him back with the dirty hits he throws around now.

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02-28-2011, 07:27 PM
  #154
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I don't care if we don't fight, if we turtle, if we are dirty at times. Just win that's all I care about. Heck I wish we could add an in his prime Claude Lemieux to do his thing in the playoffs.

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02-28-2011, 07:28 PM
  #155
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Maybe if Cooke brought us any form of success..

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02-28-2011, 07:32 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by HenrikSedinFan View Post
I don't care if we don't fight, if we turtle, if we are dirty at times. Just win that's all I care about. Heck I wish we could add an in his prime Claude Lemieux to do his thing in the playoffs.
Exactly its all about winning. Legends like clarke, messier etc weren't angels.

Laperriere is also another agitator that will likely not fight all the time.

And I don't have a problem with that. Actually theres almost 0 fighting in the playoffs.

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02-28-2011, 07:33 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by raygunpk View Post
Maybe if Cooke brought us any form of success..
Cooke played his part. It was goaltending and coaching that were our flaws.


And I wouldn't be writing off the Red Wings (as some others here are alluding to) who still (arguably) remain the SC favorites at least in the eyes of players.

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02-28-2011, 07:36 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Johnny Canucker View Post
because I dont want another MAtt Cooke v2.0?? I dont like how when cooke was here we would all have to defend his dirty hits and non fighting, then when he left we blast him for that. I dont want another Cooke
Alain has history with Lapierre, as does Higgins with Bowness. Gillis is a VERY resourceful person. You don't think he'd get the background on Laps/Higgins before he traded for them and that he wouldn't consider how they would fit into the room?

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02-28-2011, 07:38 PM
  #159
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Feel way more confident with this bottom 6 compared to last year. Lots of energy, hard work and attitude. They will make it a lot harder on other teams defenses and soften em up for our skilled guys. Oh and it's nice that we actually have bottom 6 forwards that can kill penalties. I don't know if we had a single decent PKer in last years Bottom 6. Hopefully AV uses our depth and rests Sedins/Kes down the stretch and let them refuel for the playoffs.

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Old
02-28-2011, 07:45 PM
  #160
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I lvoe the Canucks bringing in Lapierre. It'd be nice to see someone forecheck and piss-off the other team.

It also makes me laugh about comparing him to Cooke, being dirty and not fighting well called on for his actions.

Uh Burrows anyone?

Everyone else in the league HATED him cause he did the EXACT same thing. If you think differently then get the homer glasses off. Burrows has completely changed since he's been paired with the Sedins but that's what he was like before.

As long as AV and the boys can keep him striaght, I think he could be a steal.

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02-28-2011, 07:51 PM
  #161
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Ultimately I like the deal. Normally I hate giving up upper round picks for marginal talent at the deadline, but this year does feel different. There is only one other real contender in the West (San Jose's size scares me a little still, but not nearly as much as they used to) in Detroit and they don't have a reliable goalie to speak of. If Howard gets hot they probably take the Canucks in seven games given their experience, but I wouldn't bet on Howard myself. It seems unlikely the West will have this few powerhouse teams in future seasons.

Lapierre should hopefully give AV enough faith in his fourth line to ease the minutes off the top lines. That in itself has value as Vigneault did not appear to have much faith in Cody just yet, justified or not. I do think Gillis got hosed value wise here (Really can't even be debated, Lapierre went for a 5th 2 months ago and has not improved his rep with the Ducks) but maybe that is the reality of trading with a team that is still competing for a playoff spot in your own conference (And may face you in Round One if they do make it).

And just because you can effectively sign undrafted FA prospects should not diminish the importance of keeping your own picks to give your scouts as much ammo for the draft as possible. Still, like I said, this season at least I think it's a needed sacrifice. Plus Lapierre is a RFA not UFA. Much like Alberts last season it's not a pure rental.

Plus, if Lapierre does play within the system he could be a lot of fun to watch come playoff time. I don't think I've ever been this excited for the playoffs before in my life. Can we skip March?

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02-28-2011, 07:56 PM
  #162
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02-28-2011, 07:57 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Waveburner View Post
I do think Gillis got hosed value wise here (Really can't even be debated, Lapierre went for a 5th 2 months ago and has not improved his rep with the Ducks) but maybe that is the reality of trading with a team that is still competing for a playoff spot in your own conference (And may face you in Round One if they do make it).
You have to consider the fact that the 3rd rounder is in 2013. Future picks are worth less than present picks. They probably gave up a little more, but probably the equivalent of a ~4th in this year's draft.

Joel Perreault is also on a one-way deal which means that the Ducks are eating an extra $100k in salary that the Canucks can now spend elsewhere.

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Old
02-28-2011, 07:57 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Winroba View Post
Someone with some skills needs to make me a Classless Lapierre avatar.

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Old
02-28-2011, 08:09 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
Lapierre on Vigneault:

Sound good. Hopefully these guys have some sort of bromance that turns Lapierre into a legit shut-down style player.
A French coach? A French 4th liner? A grinder who plays hard and fits the exact description of the type of player that our coach has man-crushes on? You want bromance??? You got one!

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Old
02-28-2011, 08:19 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
You have to consider the fact that the 3rd rounder is in 2013. Future picks are worth less than present picks. They probably gave up a little more, but probably the equivalent of a ~4th in this year's draft.

Joel Perreault is also on a one-way deal which means that the Ducks are eating an extra $100k in salary that the Canucks can now spend elsewhere.
Why because it's further away? You're still getting a higher choice with the third, I'll take that over the lower choice that happens to come in an earlier year. I don't really think your 3rd in 2013=4th in 2011 valuation is some kind of universally accepted truth I've ever heard of, anyways.

And personally I couldn't really care less about how much money Aquaman saves, he's rich. I doubt that $100K commitment would ever stop him forking over more money to sign/acquire an asset that would benefit the Canucks. Not that I care about Perrault one way or the other, but you brought it up

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02-28-2011, 08:25 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Waveburner View Post
Why because it's further away? You're still getting a higher choice with the third, I'll take that over the lower choice that happens to come in an earlier year. I don't really think your 3rd in 2013=4th in 2011 valuation is some kind of universally accepted truth I've ever heard of, anyways.

And personally I couldn't really care less about how much money Aquaman saves, he's rich. I doubt that $100K commitment would ever stop him forking over more money to sign/acquire an asset that would benefit the Canucks. Not that care about Perrault one way or the other, but you brought it up
When you give a pick that's not in the immediate draft, then you give yourself time to recoup a similar pick. If we gave a 4th in 2011, yes, the value would be lower, however, we'd have to scramble at around draft time to recover that pick, should we desire to. But by 2013, there will be 2 years where somebody will get traded for whatever reason and we can recover a 3rd rounder or something similar (high 4th, low 2nd). That's the reasoning.

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02-28-2011, 08:33 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Reds81 View Post
I lvoe the Canucks bringing in Lapierre. It'd be nice to see someone forecheck and piss-off the other team.

It also makes me laugh about comparing him to Cooke, being dirty and not fighting well called on for his actions.

Cooke was a lot cheaper than Burrows when he was here but he wasn't nasty like his is for the Pens.

Quote:
Uh Burrows anyone?

Everyone else in the league HATED him cause he did the EXACT same thing. If you think differently then get the homer glasses off. Burrows has completely changed since he's been paired with the Sedins but that's what he was like before.

As long as AV and the boys can keep him striaght, I think he could be a steal.
Not sure I'd call the old Burrows "dirty". Did he ever intentially injure anyone? He was just REALLY gabby, irritating, annoying and obnoxious but not overly cheapshotting people.

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02-28-2011, 08:34 PM
  #169
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People are way too crazy about microanalyzing hockey.

Take Ian MacIntyre's latest article: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/C...538/story.html

He makes it sound like everyone on the Canucks are complete gentlemen on the ice in the mould of a team of Gary Cooper on ice. It is almost as if the media either believes their own BS or worse they start believing that of the team. Let me be the person to disillusion: Kevin Bieksa, Ryan Kesler, Alex Burrows (Willie Mitchell RIP) etc etc. are *******s to play against on the ice. They're always talking **** to people and always trying to get under people's skin. They haven't undertaken some gentlemanly metamorphisis, they have simply become smarter and more calculated at what they do, and more importantly their roles have changed.

When you're a veteran, 30-40 goal scorer you need to start to make the focus more about goals than if you're a bottom 6 player looking to make an impact on the ice. Let me tell you, a dozen people we tried in the bottom 6 have mostly been invisible, even Cody "The Great" Hodgson. Maxim Lapierre will not be invisible...

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02-28-2011, 08:35 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by KDizzle View Post
When you give a pick that's not in the immediate draft, then you give yourself time to recoup a similar pick. If we gave a 4th in 2011, yes, the value would be lower, however, we'd have to scramble at around draft time to recover that pick, should we desire to. But by 2013, there will be 2 years where somebody will get traded for whatever reason and we can recover a 3rd rounder or something similar (high 4th, low 2nd). That's the reasoning.
I understand the reasoning, I just don't think it holds any water.

Yes you have more time 'replace' the asset if it's further away. But whether you are trying to replace that asset this summer or 2 summers from now you are still expending the same value of assets to replace it.

I just don't see any value whatsoever in that extra time. Either way, if you want to replace what you gave up, you're still parting with the same amount of value. Therefore, the asset should be valued equally before parting with it.

I'm not even saying I don't like the trade, I just think some people try too hard to make trades look even better than they are. The Canucks got what they needed and parted with no roster players. But they got hosed value-wise to accomplish this feat. I think that's a fair conclusion considering the evidence.

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02-28-2011, 08:39 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Waveburner View Post
I understand the reasoning, I just don't think it holds any water.

Yes you have more time 'replace' the asset if it's further away. But whether you are trying to replace that asset this summer or 2 summers from now you are still expending the same value of assets to replace it.

I just don't see any value whatsoever in that extra time. Either way, if you want to replace what you gave up, you're still parting with the same amount of value. Therefore, the asset should be valued equally before parting with it.

I'm not even saying I don't like the trade, I just think some people try too hard to make trades look even better than they are. The Canucks got what they needed and parted with no roster players. But they got hosed value-wise to accomplish this feat. I think that's a fair conclusion considering the evidence.
Do you know how easy it is to bring in a 3rd round pick? trade a pending UFA's rights. Done, you got a 3rd round pick. Trade your 4th and 5th rounders if you like someone in the 3rd, done got one.

It's not a first it's not a second, look at how many players drafted in the 3rd round make the NHL. People overvalue draft picks so much. Yes you do luck out sometimes but most of the time you don't. Lapierre is under our control going forward if we want him so he's no rental.

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02-28-2011, 08:44 PM
  #172
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Sharp is a useless asset, basically a wash with Perrault. If we wanted Lappy earlier, we could have had him at a cheaper price. That's all i'm saying.
Well come to the trade deadline?

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02-28-2011, 08:47 PM
  #173
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Well come to the trade deadline?
Yeah, the trade deadline, where we assess the value of trades all day long. "Welcome"

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02-28-2011, 08:54 PM
  #174
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I understand the reasoning, I just don't think it holds any water.

Yes you have more time 'replace' the asset if it's further away. But whether you are trying to replace that asset this summer or 2 summers from now you are still expending the same value of assets to replace it.

I just don't see any value whatsoever in that extra time. Either way, if you want to replace what you gave up, you're still parting with the same amount of value. Therefore, the asset should be valued equally before parting with it.

I'm not even saying I don't like the trade, I just think some people try too hard to make trades look even better than they are. The Canucks got what they needed and parted with no roster players. But they got hosed value-wise to accomplish this feat. I think that's a fair conclusion considering the evidence.
you get an extra year of development from this years pick compared to next years.

By the time 2013 rolls around, our 2011 pick will have had two years inside Gillis's development cocoon and will nearly be a butterfly. Sure, in 2015 that 2013 pick will be blooming, but what are the odds of both coaches and both GMs all still being in the same job in 2015? not good.

that's where the devaluation comes in, you lose a year's development time in an industry that isn't exactly long term as far as job security goes.

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02-28-2011, 09:03 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by HenrikSedinFan View Post
I don't care if we don't fight, if we turtle, if we are dirty at times. Just win that's all I care about. Heck I wish we could add an in his prime Claude Lemieux to do his thing in the playoffs.
sometimes... and often "turtling" pisses off the opponent more.

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