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Trade that might not have happened because of rivalry...

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07-02-2004, 03:30 AM
  #1
edmontonoilers89
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Trade that might not have happened because of rivalry...

Just a quick question that I'd like your opinion on. It's common knowledge how Montreal was basically ripped off in the Patrick Roy deal to Colorado.

My question is, do you think Roy would have been traded to the Nordiques if they had never moved to Colorado? Like at that moment of the trade, if the Nords were still in Quebec and they were rivals, would the trade take place even if the players involved would not be changed. Now you know the Avs ripped off the Habs, but not at that time.

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07-02-2004, 08:47 AM
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MiamiScreamingEagles
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No chance. It was unlike the situation when Eric Lindros was shipped between arch-rivals Philly-NYR because of Lindros' demand that he be traded to specific teams. Montreal and Quebec had a fierce rivalry both on the ice and maybe more significantly off the ice. In fact, if the Nords were still in existence at the time of the trade, I think Patrick Roy would have been shipped to another Western Conference team (Los Angeles for example) and maybe that team would have become a powerhouse. As great as the Colorado Cup teams were, there is no guarantee that they would have won if they stayed in Quebec. Who the Nords' goalie would have been is anyone's guess. Roy was as important a player as anyone on those Avalanche teams.

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07-03-2004, 10:34 AM
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Patrick Roy would never have gone to the Nordiques... and probably not to any other team of the same Division or even conference.

But the Nordiques!!!?? Would Lacroix offer half the team, Montreal would have still hesitated...

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07-03-2004, 11:19 AM
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ripped off? what non-sense. roy made it clear he was done with the habs which lowered the possible return for him. they got the best return. there has been numerous threads on these boards none of which mention his trade demands being a large factor. on the subject, still the nords, no deal

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07-03-2004, 03:08 PM
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edmontonoilers89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuthlessRobb
ripped off? what non-sense. roy made it clear he was done with the habs which lowered the possible return for him. they got the best return. there has been numerous threads on these boards none of which mention his trade demands being a large factor. on the subject, still the nords, no deal
Yeah I guess I used the wrong word in the question. I know his demands lowered his trade value because teams knew he had to be dealt.

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07-03-2004, 03:18 PM
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This kind of goes along with this topic but I found it funny that the Wings had several guys on their team in recent years that used to be bitter rivals. They've had Clark, Gill, and Rouse from the Norris days with Toronto...Hull, Shanahan and Joseph from St. Louis...Chelios from Chicago...Robitaille and Schneider from Los Angeles. These guys used to be hated in Detroit but when they throw on the Winged Wheel, they're loved.

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07-03-2004, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoalzie
This kind of goes along with this topic but I found it funny that the Wings had several guys on their team in recent years that used to be bitter rivals. They've had Clark, Gill, and Rouse from the Norris days with Toronto...Hull, Shanahan and Joseph from St. Louis...Chelios from Chicago...Robitaille and Schneider from Los Angeles. These guys used to be hated in Detroit but when they throw on the Winged Wheel, they're loved.
You know how it is. Hate the guy as long as he doesn't play for your team, but once he does, you love him.

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07-03-2004, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoalzie
This kind of goes along with this topic but I found it funny that the Wings had several guys on their team in recent years that used to be bitter rivals. They've had Clark, Gill, and Rouse from the Norris days with Toronto...Hull, Shanahan and Joseph from St. Louis...Chelios from Chicago...Robitaille and Schneider from Los Angeles. These guys used to be hated in Detroit but when they throw on the Winged Wheel, they're loved.
There are not nearly the rivalries as their used to be in hockey anymore, and a big part of that has been the de-emphasis of the divisions. Hopefully next season (whenever that may be) with the conference scheduling only, it will re-emphasize the division matchups and re-heat the wars that have cooled. Hockey needs some good rivalries, and they need rivalries that speak for themselves. Obviously the Original Six have some good rivalries, and up to the past couple of years Detroit-Colorado had been a good rivalry as well. It's hard to pick who the Stars, Predators, Panthers, or Hurricane's top rivalry's are however (from an outsider perspective).

For the Coyotes I would say they have good rivalries with the Kings, Ducks, and Stars in their division. There are slight rivalries with Philly and St. Louis because of former players, but not a traditional rivalry. Outside of the fans involved, I'm sure many would not have known the Coyotes rivals for instance.

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07-05-2004, 09:56 AM
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Roy left the Canadiens...he wasnt traded..................right?

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07-05-2004, 10:01 AM
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No.

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07-05-2004, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tock
Roy left the Canadiens...he wasnt traded..................right?
The trade was Mike Keane and Patrick Roy for Jocelyn Thibault, Andrei Kovalenko and Martin Rucinsky
link

 
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07-05-2004, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuthlessRobb
ripped off? what non-sense. roy made it clear he was done with the habs which lowered the possible return for him. they got the best return. there has been numerous threads on these boards none of which mention his trade demands being a large factor. on the subject, still the nords, no deal
We got the best return for Roy ? You are one heck of a fool. He ask for a trade, yes but this is the kind of situation where you take your time.

Best Goaltender of All-Time in his prime
VS
Thibault
Rucinski
Kovalenko

The Hab should have got either Forsberg OR Sakic, period.

On the subject. There's is no way the Habs would have trade Roy to the Nords. Thats like telling your fanbase. Hey you all love Patrick Roy ? Go all cheer for him kicking our ass.

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07-05-2004, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoupeStanley
We got the best return for Roy ? You are one heck of a fool. He ask for a trade, yes but this is the kind of situation where you take your time.

Best Goaltender of All-Time in his prime
VS
Thibault
Rucinski
Kovalenko

The Hab should have got either Forsberg OR Sakic, period.

On the subject. There's is no way the Habs would have trade Roy to the Nords. Thats like telling your fanbase. Hey you all love Patrick Roy ? Go all cheer for him kicking our ass.
You forgot to add that Montreal sent Keane with Roy!

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07-05-2004, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-D
You forgot to add that Montreal sent Keane with Roy!
and he was our Captain....

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07-05-2004, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoupeStanley
We got the best return for Roy ? You are one heck of a fool. He ask for a trade, yes but this is the kind of situation where you take your time.

Best Goaltender of All-Time in his prime
VS
Thibault
Rucinski
Kovalenko

The Hab should have got either Forsberg OR Sakic, period.

On the subject. There's is no way the Habs would have trade Roy to the Nords. Thats like telling your fanbase. Hey you all love Patrick Roy ? Go all cheer for him kicking our ass.
if that was the case they likely would have got sakic or forsberg

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07-05-2004, 11:46 AM
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CoupeStanley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuthlessRobb
if that was the case they likely would have got sakic or forsberg
I think you underestimate how bad was Reggie Foule in his prime.

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07-05-2004, 12:40 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoupeStanley
I think you underestimate how bad was Reggie Foule in his prime.
He didn't even get Deadmarsh in that deal.

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07-05-2004, 12:48 PM
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David Puddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edmontonoilers89
My question is, do you think Roy would have been traded to the Nordiques if they had never moved to Colorado?
I don't think Montreal would have sent Roy to the Nordiques either. Had there ever been a trade between the Nordiques and the Canadiens before the former moved to Colorado? The New Jersey Devils and the New York Rangers have never had trade since the Devils came from Colorado.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoupeStanley
We got the best return for Roy ? You are one heck of a fool. He ask for a trade, yes but this is the kind of situation where you take your time.

Best Goaltender of All-Time in his prime
VS
Thibault
Rucinski
Kovalenko
It may very well have been the best trade when considering the situation. Roy went beyond requesting a trade. To say that he demanded a trade is even under stating things.

This is from the article "Avalanche Nets Goaltender Roy" linked above,
Quote:
Tremblay angered Roy by refusing to remove him from Saturday's eventual 11-1 loss to Detroit until the score soared to 9-1 midway through the second period.

When Roy was pulled, he stormed past Tremblay on the bench and leaned over to club president Ronald Corey, telling him, "That's my last game for the organization."

Roy then glared and cursed at Tremblay.


Houle suspended Roy, winner of 289 regular-season games and 70 in the playoffs, the next day and promised to trade him.
Jocelyn Thibault went 23-13-3 for Montreal after the trade and seemed to be the goalie of the future in Montreal (Jose Theodore's played changed that.) Thibault is almost ten years younger than Roy, and is still a starting goalie when healthy.

Martin Rucinsky scored 25 goals with 35 assists for 60 points in 56 games in Montreal that season. Rucinsky had another very good year in 1996-97 before his numbers dropped. Andrei Kovalenko scored 17 goals and added 17 assists after the 1995-96 trade. He scored 32 goals the next year in Edmonton before his offensive production fell.

Mike Keane was a fourth liner, or should have been, without a goal in 22 games before being sent to Colorado with Roy.

In hindsight the trade may seem bad, but considering Roy's attitude at the time, something had to be done immediately, and the Colorado deal did land a top notch goaltender and a couple of guys that produced offensively right after the trade.

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