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Another team heading for Juniors/ Tier II

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Old
03-01-2011, 12:02 AM
  #1
CHRDANHUTCH
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Another team heading for Juniors/ Tier II

LOOKS Like Laredo (CHL) is leaning toward that direction for 2011-12

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03-01-2011, 06:12 AM
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I saw that on OSC yesterday. Very interesting trend for AA teams switching to NAHL or USHL. Seems that the economy is better suited to a Jr.A league with no salaries, yet a higher travel budget (flights). Does the NAHL require its players to pay a fee? I know the USHL does not charge anything, but I have heard of some NAHL teams getting players to pay for housing or a season 'fee'. Couple of my teammates played in the NAHL and didn't have to pay, but that was before this massive expansion last season.

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03-01-2011, 07:52 PM
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Laredo is not certain, but reading between the lines here, it's pretty likely: http://bordertownsports.wordpress.co...er-glenn-hart/

But Odessa's move from the WPHL (doing business as the CHL) to the NAHL next season IS out in the open now:
http://www.owatonna.com/news.php?viewStory=125096

The NAHL Owatonna Express have been sold and will move to Odessa to put the Jackalopes into the NAHL.

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03-02-2011, 02:05 PM
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Laredo and Odessa are BOTH officially going to the NAHL:

http://www.lmtonline.com/articles/20...6085707852.txt

http://www.oaoa.com/sports/league-61...key-north.html

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03-02-2011, 07:09 PM
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Quality of Play

I would think at some point in time the quality of play with all these changes would be taking a hit- are there that many quality junior type players to go around?? Would love to hear comments from those that have spent this year (Amarillo, NM, etc.) watching NAHL play-
I also noted the comments by someone that the pros going union was a consideration?? I always thought the Frankes in Fort Wayne were very adamant about not having their players unionized. Did that change this year??

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03-07-2011, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desert dawg View Post
I would think at some point in time the quality of play with all these changes would be taking a hit- are there that many quality junior type players to go around?? Would love to hear comments from those that have spent this year (Amarillo, NM, etc.) watching NAHL play-
I also noted the comments by someone that the pros going union was a consideration?? I always thought the Frankes in Fort Wayne were very adamant about not having their players unionized. Did that change this year??
Bums me out that in San Angelo we never switched to the NAHL. Right there in the same region as Odessa and Amarillo. Tried after the CHL team folded in 2005 but the city never liked hockey for some reason..Guess they like their crappy coliseum to not be used.

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03-08-2011, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by desert dawg View Post
I also noted the comments by someone that the pros going union was a consideration?? I always thought the Frankes in Fort Wayne were very adamant about not having their players unionized. Did that change this year??
This is the second season that the CHL players have had union representation through the PHPA. The Frankes had to swallow their pride and mend fences with the PHPA (depending on who you listen to - some people claim there were no fences to mend, but if you read the PHPA statements carefully this past summer, you saw there was SOME under-the-surface discussion that had to happen) in order to play in the CHL this season, as a 4-5 team "IHL" wasn't going to be workable.

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03-08-2011, 07:28 PM
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I will be the first to admit I am on the outside looking in, but wonder what concessions either owners are requesting, or union is considering, in order for the pros to keep playing, and the unions to not lose any more members-at this rate there might not be many pro AA teams in a few years-

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03-08-2011, 09:31 PM
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I was browsing around on this ECHL Board and I saw apparently that it looks like Victoria might join the WHL and that if they do the thought is Alaska might join them. Has anybody heard anything along these lines? This would be interesting, the ECHL Western Conference would be down to 6 teams, would they just scratch the whole Conference and those teams would be left out in the cold? If that happened you would be around your 30 teams for AA with the addition of Chicago.

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03-14-2011, 10:14 AM
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Central Hockey League in trouble of losing more teams?

With the loss of Odessa and Laredo next season to Jr.A Tier 2, it looks like the Bossier-Shreveport Mudbugs could be leaving the CHL next season for the SPHL.

Full Story Here

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Scott estimates only “four of 18 CHL teams break even or show a profit. And the teams that lose are losing anywhere from $100,000 to one million dollars.”
With this news, it looks like the CHL could be potentially losing more franchises next season. Now comes the question, will teams leave to join the less expensive SPHL? Or should the league find ways to drop operating expenses to a more manageable figure?

Is there any revenue sharing in this league?

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03-14-2011, 11:12 AM
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Wow I always read on another board where someone always kept bragging that the CHL was in GREAT shape and that the league was owned by the guys who created I think it was...Boston Pizza?(some kinda Pizza joint at least) and that all the owners had to have "licenses" and all this stuff to own a team. Thats too bad though, atleast they are hoping to stay pro instead of going the Junior route.

Aren't the Mudbugs a really good team this year?

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03-14-2011, 04:25 PM
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The IceMen are, or were (can't remember), owned by pizza guys from Fort Wayne; the league is not. The CHL is owned by Global Entertainment Corporation.

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03-14-2011, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Panda Bolt View Post
The IceMen are, or were (can't remember), owned by pizza guys from Fort Wayne; the league is not. The CHL is owned by Global Entertainment Corporation.
I thought the Dayton Gems last season in the first half were owned by guys of a pizza buffet and by Thanksgiving time the team nearly folded?(I still can't believe they are going now with what attendance has been)

Why do the Icemen get a new arena when they can't even sell out Swonder reguarly?

If we are talking next CHL teams to go my short list would be:
Arizona
Dayton
Evansville(i'll give them a year in that new rink, they better draw some more)
and Quad City

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03-14-2011, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalsfan1 View Post
Wow I always read on another board where someone always kept bragging that the CHL was in GREAT shape and that the league was owned by the guys who created I think it was...Boston Pizza?(some kinda Pizza joint at least) and that all the owners had to have "licenses" and all this stuff to own a team. Thats too bad though, atleast they are hoping to stay pro instead of going the Junior route.

Aren't the Mudbugs a really good team this year?
You're likely thinking of Jim Treliving. He's the owner and chairman of Boston Pizza. He's also a part of Global Entertainment Corporation, who own the CHL. He's got really deep pockets but that doesn't mean the teams are making much money.

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03-15-2011, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by The Panda Dolt View Post
The IceMen are, or were (can't remember), owned by pizza guys from Fort Wayne; the league is not. The CHL is owned by Global Entertainment Corporation.

Dayton (prior to their aborted fold last year was owned by Fort Wayne) was owned by two "businessmen" who also ran a Ft. Wayne pizza buffet into the ground.

Evansville is owned by the same guy who owned them in the AAHL.

The CHL is owned by Global Entertainment Corp., which is owned by the same people who own Boston Pizza, a nationwide chain in Canada.


Last edited by CrazyEddie20: 03-20-2011 at 01:02 PM. Reason: duh, WINNING!
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Old
03-21-2011, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyEddie20 View Post
Dayton (prior to their aborted fold last year was owned by Fort Wayne) was owned by two "businessmen" who also ran a Ft. Wayne pizza buffet into the ground.

Evansville is owned by the same guy who owned them in the AAHL.

The CHL is owned by Global Entertainment Corp., which is owned by the same people who own Boston Pizza, a nationwide chain in Canada.
Boston's Pizza is a growing chain with over 50 franchises in the western US as well as in western Canada... Many of the CHL cities have one...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Pizza

From Greg Rajan's blog the Traverse City North Stars NAHL club is or will be sold to the CHL Laredo Bucks...

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03-21-2011, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jackalsfan1 View Post
Wow I always read on another board where someone always kept bragging that the CHL was in GREAT shape and that the league was owned by the guys who created I think it was...Boston Pizza?(some kinda Pizza joint at least) and that all the owners had to have "licenses" and all this stuff to own a team. Thats too bad though, atleast they are hoping to stay pro instead of going the Junior route.

Aren't the Mudbugs a really good team this year?
As the Bossier-Shreveport owner, Tony Scott, claims, a AA pro minor league hockey club in the CHL has a $2 million plus annual budget. The Mudbugs need to draw an average of 3.4k fans paying an average of $14 per seat to break even... So many of the CHL clubs are losing money, the average attendance have dropped for many of the clubs during this deep double dip recession with no signs of any recovery on Main Street, USA.

Its not as if these clubs are in a media vacuum, there is plenty of local media coverage, there just aren't enough paying fans for the owners to break even.

While none of the owners really expect to earn a lot of money with their hockey teams, they are in it for other reasons, they do have a loss threshold... At that point they either sale or fold the club...

Or drop down to a lower league with a better economic business model... An average NAHL club has an annual budget of around half a million, and a SPHL or USHL club has an annual budget of around a million whereas a CHL club has an annual budget of $2 million plus...

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03-21-2011, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalsfan1 View Post
Wow I always read on another board where someone always kept bragging that the CHL was in GREAT shape and that the league was owned by the guys who created I think it was...Boston Pizza?(some kinda Pizza joint at least) and that all the owners had to have "licenses" and all this stuff to own a team. Thats too bad though, atleast they are hoping to stay pro instead of going the Junior route.

Aren't the Mudbugs a really good team this year?
The CHL used to be, at least in their own mind, in great shape.

As far as "licenses" go, most people without an MBA or a JD might not get the semantics. Basically, a licensee, such as a CHL or ECHL member club, leases its' membership for an indeterminate period of time, and thus can sell such a license to someone else, but should they choose to fold the team, that license and all the rights attached to it revert to the league. Were it a franchise, they'd have ownership of exclusive territorial rights (like the Maple Leafs and Sabres have in regards to Hamilton, Ontario and NHL hockey there.)

All a license is in the CHL is a permit to operate a team, nothing more, and nothing any more legally significant than being a licensee of any other corporation.

The CHL's "case" as the top Class-AA hockey league was built around skewed attendance numbers from several years ago when Oklahoma City played in the Ford Center and was drawing and average 9,000, and Laredo, New Mexico, Bossier, and Austin, among others, were drawing close to 4,000, but the costs were a lot lower back then, as were both the quality of the hockey and the ticket prices...

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Old
03-22-2011, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jackalsfan1 View Post
Why do the Icemen get a new arena when they can't even sell out Swonder reguarly?
The new arena is being built primarily to house the University of Evansville basketball program; I also think (not sure) that Evansville has an AFL2 franchise. The IceMen are not going to be the primary tenant, but will be welcomed in the new building as an additional revenue generator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalsfan1 View Post
If we are talking next CHL teams to go my short list would be:
Arizona
Dayton
Evansville(i'll give them a year in that new rink, they better draw some more)
and Quad City
I'm sure the people of Evansville, and the management of the Icemen, will take your warnings and stipulations under advisement...

I would be glad to see all four of those venues in the USHL, especially Arizona (Prescott). The NAHL, not so much, since it's not a primary feeder to Division I NCAA clubs, at least not as much as the USHL is.

Dayton, Evansville and the Quad fit pretty nicely in the USHL's current footprint; Arizona is a bit of an outlier, but it's do-able if the USHL adds a frachise in (or moves one to) the Denver area (Broomfield, former home of the Rocky Mountain Rage). Rapid City would fit in the USHL's footprint nicely, too.

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03-22-2011, 07:39 PM
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Arizona may be sooner than later.

With the possibility of the NHL franchise leaving Glendale (suburb of Phoenix), the mayor has stated they want a "minor league" hockey team. They might opt for a junior one, if that's all that's available.

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03-22-2011, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
Arizona may be sooner than later.

With the possibility of the NHL franchise leaving Glendale (suburb of Phoenix), the mayor has stated they want a "minor league" hockey team. They might opt for a junior one, if that's all that's available.
Well, if True North were to buy the Coyotes and move them to Winnipeg, they could just move the Moose to Phoenix and rename them they Coyotes provided they could negotiate a travel deal ala Abbotsford. They wouldn't even have to design new logos.

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03-22-2011, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CrazyEddie20 View Post
Well, if True North were to buy the Coyotes and move them to Winnipeg, they could just move the Moose to Phoenix and rename them they Coyotes provided they could negotiate a travel deal ala Abbotsford. They wouldn't even have to design new logos.
Actually, it might be that the AHL Moose relocate to Victoria, BC (perhaps ousting ECHL team).

Lots of potential relocations/realignments of affiliations this off season.

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03-22-2011, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
Actually, it might be that the AHL Moose relocate to Victoria, BC (perhaps ousting ECHL team).

Lots of potential relocations/realignments of affiliations this off season.
The more likely move is a relocation of a WHL team. I've heard several different teams named.

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03-23-2011, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
The new arena is being built primarily to house the University of Evansville basketball program; I also think (not sure) that Evansville has an AFL2 franchise. The IceMen are not going to be the primary tenant, but will be welcomed in the new building as an additional revenue generator.
Never had an af2 team and doesn't matter now since the af2 is dead now. But you're right, the IceMen, or whatever new team moves in, will be at least 2nd (behind men's basketball) and possibly even 3rd (men's and women's).

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03-30-2011, 01:01 PM
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Laredo not joining the NAHL

The Bucks have withdrawn their application to the NAHL, stating that they will be playing professional hockey next season. However, they did not say they will be playing in the Central Hockey League.

I heard a little rumour that there may be a new Single A level league starting up in the CHL's foot print.

Anyone else hear this? Or is this just speculation and reading into something too much?

http://www.themonitor.com/sports/hoc...ks-league.html

The AA level could end up getting down to 30 teams after all.

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