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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the hat0r thread)

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Old
05-05-2011, 10:29 AM
  #226
EYEuhFRAYtee
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
the problem is with what I put in bold....

it was regular season....when it counts, 52 has not been a player you can count on 25+ minutes a night on D. All this talk about pairing him with the right kind of player is all well and good....and can impact the level of his play...it should not however dictate if he is effective at all. If you are paying a defender 5+ mil you should be looking who you can pair with him so that HE can help them....not the other way around
I think this is lost on some here.

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05-05-2011, 10:34 AM
  #227
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How much Mike Green makes and everything else with this team, it all eventually comes back to George. Its a time to look at the big picture, is it not?

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05-05-2011, 10:35 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
the problem is with what I put in bold....

it was regular season....when it counts, 52 has not been a player you can count on 25+ minutes a night on D. All this talk about pairing him with the right kind of player is all well and good....and can impact the level of his play...it should not however dictate if he is effective at all. If you are paying a defender 5+ mil you should be looking who you can pair with him so that HE can help them....not the other way around
I realize that a lot of emotions are running rampant at this time and Green seems to be in a number of folks sights, but lets just look at Green in these playoffs. He comes back in the first round from a concussion (and probably sooner than he should have), he plays well and in Game 5 scores the first goal and then has the misfortune of getting a puck to the helmet (hey he blocked the shot). In the series against TB he played two games and two periods in a third game. One of the first goals that TB scored against the Caps in the series was when Green was interfered with. Green is still developing/maturing as a defenseman and it would be foolish to prematurely give up on him ala Larry Murphy at this time. There's still a lot of potential there with Green. Whereas, I've said it before about Schultz, he's reached the top of his game and he's done developing, what you see now is what he will be throughout the remainder of his career.

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05-05-2011, 10:40 AM
  #229
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If we bring in a solid D partner (vet) to pair him with AND we get a coach that will help him develop more defensively, then keep him....

If not, he's too much of a liability in the playoffs...

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05-05-2011, 11:04 AM
  #230
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Even though this was a rough year scoring wise his defensive side has continued to improve so not..its not time to move him.

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05-05-2011, 11:08 AM
  #231
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It's about the worst time to move him, IMO. You'll be selling incredibly low after a 24 point season. If you want to move him, get him healthy, get him a bunch of points, and move him at the deadline.

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Old
05-05-2011, 11:24 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
I agree with much of this....but then I see him take terrible angles, or play a 2-on-1 as badly as a player can play it....and I say, thats not BB's fault. There are certain things that fall flat between the 5 and the 2 in terms of who is responsible.

The franchise needs to figure out a direction to go with this player. He makes impact player money, and will be up for a new contract soon. I dont see him taking a pay cut at all, much less a big one. Going forward do you pay Green 5-6 mil a year for a few years or do you go a different route now?
Let's distinguish between what Bruce says and what he actually has them practice. How often in practice do they go over and re-enact these scenarios? "Wax on, wax off...wax on, wax off..."

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05-05-2011, 11:30 AM
  #233
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My argument was not that stats make Mike Green #40 in the league, but that they put a big question mark on the claim that he's the best offensive defenseman in the game. And if the new system does not allow him to play like the best OD, then why pay him at best-OD rate?

And to end the subject of stats -- Ovechkin's stats also don't mean that he's #9, but then again they support the argument that he's probably not close to #1 right now.

Finally, the fact that yes, there are a lot of overpaid players in the NHL, does not make me excited about overpaying for Green. If keeping him requires an overpayment relative to what he really brings to the team (in playoffs), I'd rather somebody else overpay him after paying through the nose to get him from the Caps.
So, you're expecting a guy who will have UFA right to take a paycut, just as he's entering his prime, because his team plays a more defensive system?

What would you say if your employer had this conversation with you? "Art - we know you're one of the top 2-3 computer programmers in the world, and you could go to Microsoft and make $500K per year. However, we don't really need a top 2-3 guy in world. We need a decent guy who doesn't screw up, and we're willing to pay you $300K. Doesn't that sound great! Sign right here on the dotted line!".

You, and any other person with two brain cells will tell management to go pound sand. If the Caps don't want to pay MG like a #1 guy - someone else will. You can couch it in any way you want - but elite UFA players (which MG is) in their prime aren't going to take a paycut because of organization depth.

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Old
05-05-2011, 11:38 AM
  #234
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Green won't be a UFA after next season. I believe he'd have arbitration rights, however.

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05-05-2011, 11:45 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by khuddle View Post
Funny how OV has made me completely forget about Lindros. Lindros was to take the game to a new level -- basically a kid with the body and strength of an NFL Defensive Lineman who also had tremendous skill and hockey smarts as well. But he didnt nearly have the energy, heart, drive and determination that Ovechkin has, and hence his career turned out to be well below everyone's expectations.
At AO's age - Lindros led the Flyers to the Stanley Cup finals. When was AO past the 2nd round again?

Blaming Lindros for not having the career expected and attributing it on heart & drive when it was 100% related to coming back WAY too soon from concussion issues is ludicrous IMO (which was 100% caused by having TOO much heart). Lindros was one of the most dominant players of all time, whose career was unfortunately cut short by injury.

(And I'm a huge AO fan, and love the way he plays the game. I just think it's assinine and revisionist history to portray Lindros as Daigle v2.0)


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05-05-2011, 11:53 AM
  #236
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Lindros was a god on ice with a heart to match his talent. People like to tear down Lindros because he was great and they're jealous. Same as AO, same as Sid.

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05-05-2011, 12:03 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Green won't be a UFA after next season. I believe he'd have arbitration rights, however.
Thanks for the clarification. I thought Green signed a 4 year deal coming off his ELC which would have given him 7 years of service and made him UFA eligible.

In either case it's a similiar result IMO. GMGM offers Green $5M (as proposed by Artilictor), and 30 seconds later Green files for arbitration. Reward based on his gaudy offensive production, and being a Norris finalist twice, and he's at least guaranteed Backstrom/Semin money for one year (or what Shea Weber gets in NSH this summer). Then he's a UFA and can bail without recourse.

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Old
05-05-2011, 12:42 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
I realize that a lot of emotions are running rampant at this time and Green seems to be in a number of folks sights, but lets just look at Green in these playoffs. He comes back in the first round from a concussion (and probably sooner than he should have), he plays well and in Game 5 scores the first goal and then has the misfortune of getting a puck to the helmet (hey he blocked the shot). In the series against TB he played two games and two periods in a third game. One of the first goals that TB scored against the Caps in the series was when Green was interfered with. Green is still developing/maturing as a defenseman and it would be foolish to prematurely give up on him ala Larry Murphy at this time. There's still a lot of potential there with Green. Whereas, I've said it before about Schultz, he's reached the top of his game and he's done developing, what you see now is what he will be throughout the remainder of his career.
Green was standing around the crease doing squadoosh....yes, he was crosschecked....but what was he doing? nothing but watching......again, this guy is not a prospect, he is supposed to be a core player and he is paid like one. This notion that he must be in the perfect situation doesnt fly with me....yes, I agree....when all things line up in 52's favor he can be good. That doesnt happen in the spring.....other teams make sure of it. And what is the excuse for the whirlwind impression on the first goal of game 3?

I dont disagree that Green can/should get better....and im not for just dumping him. Like I said, they need to look at this player in the long term. He has never played nearly as well in the playoffs as he does in the regular season, when it counts. He makes a lot of money and if that can be used on a better player(s) for this team it should be considered.

Murphy wasnt boo'd out of town because didnt produce, he was boo'd out of town because he didnt play like 3 and 5 (and the puck jumped over his stick). That analogy doesnt work for me....and even so, that was a good trade by Poile. This team could use a Dino/Rouse combo more than a Semin/Green combo IMO

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05-05-2011, 12:48 PM
  #239
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Oh yeah, we could really use a Dino and Bob Rouse to start our next phase of the ongoing rebuild.

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Old
05-05-2011, 01:08 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Green should not be moved. He was playing his best hockey in years until he got hurt this series and you can hardly put any of this debacle squarely on him.
.
how so.. he has been terrible, just like in his previous playoffs.

Any time the intensity grows to top level he fails to match.

You can win if a forward doesn't score/perform a la Semin, you can't with defensemen that give up scoring chances after scoring chances.

As soon as he gets a good offer, McPhee should deal him away.

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05-05-2011, 01:46 PM
  #241
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this is retarded...mike play great these playoffs

its dumb your talking about trading away a two time norris nominee and all star...wow

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05-05-2011, 01:51 PM
  #242
Mothra
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Originally Posted by courtcapsfan View Post
this is retarded...mike play great these playoffs
its dumb your talking about trading away a two time norris nominee and all star...wow
thats all I needed to see.....thanks Mrs. Green



This is great?


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Old
05-05-2011, 02:13 PM
  #243
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Anyone watch Carlson on the PP point last night? He looked better than Green....just sayin...

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05-05-2011, 02:15 PM
  #244
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IMO, Green played close to his best series against the woeful Rags. He then reverted when the going got tough against the Bolts and looked pretty bad.

One of the favorite players, but he doesn't have the mental toughness and game smarts IMO....tough for me to say that too.

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05-05-2011, 02:17 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Icetime View Post
Mike Green is not a championship caliber hockey player.

There are plenty or moron GM's out there, but the ones who are in charge of contenders will have little interest in this player.

Dude will never step on the ice for the Canadian National team during the Olympics in his entire career.

Bank it.
I think he'll get plenty of chances to play in the World Championships while the great players are still in the NHL playoffs...

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05-05-2011, 02:23 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
Anyone watch Carlson on the PP point last night? He looked better than Green....just sayin...
Hell yeah, like last year, his fine offensive playoff showing gives small optimism going forward. Its obvious Bruce told him to learn and play defense this year. Too much IMO, we needed him on the PP long before last night.

Once Wideman went out and our PP with him, I wanted to see more Carlson. It has become clear that Green is not getting it done. PK'ers pressure Ovi and Green and they cant or won't pass, or dont have anyone to pass to. Trying to throw quick passes to each other, ending up on their backhands, its just hard to watch for our highest skill guys.

You can see it even strength with less time and more bodies to get shots through, Carlson flat out gets puck on net much more than Green does. Green hits Laich on a rising slapper deflating us early in Game 3.

I know we all saw Carlson with a great reverse direction steal to keep the puck in the zone last night. I think he may have shot wide but that was a hellastepup. Too bad he didnt score there. Killer Kaminski ish going the wrong way like that. Killer never got the puck of course.

He may end up being better than Green.

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05-05-2011, 02:23 PM
  #247
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What would guys want from the sabres for Green?

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Old
05-05-2011, 02:26 PM
  #248
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I just want to know when Green developed the mental block that stops him from shooting? It's almost comical to watch him and Ovy pass it back and forth on the point....most of the time the repeatedly pass it to each other in a crap position and it takes away the option of the one timer....frustrating to say the least...

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05-05-2011, 02:34 PM
  #249
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He may end up being better than Green.
considering he is clearly better now, would be really disappointing otherwise.

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Old
05-05-2011, 02:35 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
I just want to know when Green developed the mental block that stops him from shooting? It's almost comical to watch him and Ovy pass it back and forth on the point....most of the time the repeatedly pass it to each other in a crap position and it takes away the option of the one timer....frustrating to say the least...
Again, . Let's see what happens with a new coach and new system before jumping to the conclusion that things will always be the same. I'm sure if the new coach says "Mike, I will f%^&ing slit your throat if you pass up a shot again" things might change.

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