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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the hat0r thread)

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05-05-2011, 02:49 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Gerbe42 View Post
What would guys want from the sabres for Green?
Tyler Myers!

Just to expand on the deal somewhat Green/Semin for Myers/Vanek.

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05-05-2011, 02:56 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by helicecopter View Post
considering he is clearly better now, would be really disappointing otherwise.
Green's skating and puck carrying is what separates him from a lot of other defensemen. Carlson is not better than Green at this time and doubt he will ever be as good a skater as Green. However, Carlson's trending towards being a better two way defenseman than Green and that may ultimately translate into him be the more desired defenseman.
Green's game = high risk/high reward

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05-05-2011, 03:09 PM
  #253
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I'd like to see this team with both Green and Wideman for an entire year (Wideman does have 1 more year on his Florida deal doesn't he?). I think it could possible be a tremendous benefit for Green because Wideman will eat into Green's minutes throughout the regular season to the point that Green might actually get to the playoffs without a lot of wear and tear on his mind, body, and soul. I sure would be interested to see how that plays out.

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05-05-2011, 03:23 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
Tyler Myers!

Just to expand on the deal somewhat Green/Semin for Myers/Vanek.
I would have to pass then ..

I was thinking . Drew,ennis,1st , Pysyk or Kassian

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05-05-2011, 03:30 PM
  #255
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If Washington entertained moving Green would they at all be interested in moving up the draft? I only ask because Green is exactly what Columbus needs. Wondered if the 8th overall, Filatov and Russell is at all enticing or way out of line. {Ducks}...

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05-05-2011, 03:31 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
If Washington entertained moving Green would they at all be interested in moving up the draft? I only ask because Green is exactly what Columbus needs. Wondered if the 8th overall, Filatov and Russell is at all enticing or way out of line. {Ducks}...
Way out of line. I can't see any scenario where he's moved for futures. Think Tyutin+.

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05-05-2011, 04:34 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
If Washington entertained moving Green would they at all be interested in moving up the draft? I only ask because Green is exactly what Columbus needs. Wondered if the 8th overall, Filatov and Russell is at all enticing or way out of line. {Ducks}...
As noted, Tyutin+ is what it would take. In my dream world it would be Tyutin + Voracek.

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05-05-2011, 05:19 PM
  #258
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way over due. Get rid of this ******

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05-05-2011, 07:05 PM
  #259
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Green is the worst defensive player we have on defense. He offense is world class. Top 5 in pure skill.

We either have to get a ridiculous shutdown physical dman to pair him with or send him down the road for the best offer we can get.

He has had time to improve his defense and hasn't. He can only stay as a PP specialist and limited minuted paired with a true stud dman.

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05-05-2011, 07:46 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Way out of line. I can't see any scenario where he's moved for futures. Think Tyutin+.
He won't do that, but if he thinks Green is peaked, he needs to get everything he can for him. His value was greater last year than it will be this offseason, and I don't want to see it decrease again.

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05-05-2011, 07:52 PM
  #261
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Green is the worst defensive player we have on defense. He offense is world class. Top 5 in pure skill.

We either have to get a ridiculous shutdown physical dman to pair him with or send him down the road for the best offer we can get.

He has had time to improve his defense and hasn't. He can only stay as a PP specialist and limited minuted paired with a true stud dman.
Not even close to correct. Green is better defensviely than both Schultz and Erskine. And he's certainly improved his defense, according to any unbiased observer you'll find.

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05-05-2011, 08:45 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Gerbe42 View Post
What would guys want from the sabres for Green?
Luke Adam for starters. Add some combo of high value picks and I'd have that conversation.

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05-05-2011, 09:36 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Efactor View Post
Green is the worst defensive player we have on defense. He offense is world class. Top 5 in pure skill.

We either have to get a ridiculous shutdown physical dman to pair him with or send him down the road for the best offer we can get.

He has had time to improve his defense and hasn't. He can only stay as a PP specialist and limited minuted paired with a true stud dman.
I'm really not sure why you think he is such a terrible defenseman. He is inconsistent, yes, but often enough he is very good. And I cannot imagine his consistency not improving as time goes by. His offense will come around again. Look, the guy blocked a shot with his head against NY.

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05-06-2011, 06:55 AM
  #264
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Wow at the Green hate. We should definently keep him. He is still young and will probably mature and get his defensive game up to bar.

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05-06-2011, 08:09 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Capsman View Post
I'm really not sure why you think he is such a terrible defenseman. He is inconsistent, yes, but often enough he is very good. And I cannot imagine his consistency not improving as time goes by. His offense will come around again. Look, the guy blocked a shot with his head against NY.
I have issues with this.....

you downplay his inconsistent play like its no big deal....its a huge deal, thats just it. Adding to that, he has not been "very good" in the playoffs. I dont know how many more times people need to see how much the game changes in the spring. People talk about it like they understand that but then go back to talk about how someone played during the regular season, like it really matters that much.

Its not that far removed from looking at a guy who plays great in the pre-season and assuming that will be the case in the regular season.

consistency is what seperates most of these players....and you need it from a defender you is supposed to play 25+ minutes a game.

so what if he blocked a shot with his head.....your line of thinking is like looking at a goalie who makes amazing saves but lets in softies and thinkings it ok because he makes great saves once in a while.....in the NHL you have to be consistent....your team and coaches need to be able to count on you making the routine plays on a regular basis. The oppostion needs to know that you are stable and eat up all the plays you should eat up.....they shouldnt be game planning to knock you off your fragile game, where everything has to be just right in order for you to succeed.

success in the spring is about overcoming adversity.....52 has not shown any signs of this IMO.

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05-06-2011, 08:32 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
I have issues with this.....

you downplay his inconsistent play like its no big deal....its a huge deal, thats just it. Adding to that, he has not been "very good" in the playoffs. I dont know how many more times people need to see how much the game changes in the spring. People talk about it like they understand that but then go back to talk about how someone played during the regular season, like it really matters that much.

Its not that far removed from looking at a guy who plays great in the pre-season and assuming that will be the case in the regular season.

consistency is what seperates most of these players....and you need it from a defender you is supposed to play 25+ minutes a game.

so what if he blocked a shot with his head.....your line of thinking is like looking at a goalie who makes amazing saves but lets in softies and thinkings it ok because he makes great saves once in a while.....in the NHL you have to be consistent....your team and coaches need to be able to count on you making the routine plays on a regular basis. The oppostion needs to know that you are stable and eat up all the plays you should eat up.....they shouldnt be game planning to knock you off your fragile game, where everything has to be just right in order for you to succeed.

success in the spring is about overcoming adversity.....52 has not shown any signs of this IMO.
Amen! I could give a shEEt if he scored 30 goals once.

If he stays, it is as a PP specialist who get about a total of 18 minutes a night. Period. He is not a first pair dman on any Cup winning squad. Most of the posters on here need to get over the fact that he is exciting and get on to evaluating players for what they are.

In my opinon, the coach overusing him is not his fault. However, he is what he is, a $3M specialist.

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05-06-2011, 09:51 AM
  #267
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Leafs fan coming in peace.

I read through this topic and here are some points I want to make to hopefully add to discussion:

I understand frustration some fans expressed, but thing is that it is very hard to find first pair defs these days. Some teams in my opinion don't have even two true first pair defs to go together. Point is you should keep what you got as it's extremely hard to find or develop one. Add to this that it's increasingly difficult to trade in capped NHL. You can trade Green, but then nobody will trade you first pair def. Only scenario that I can see if another def struggles and Washington is willing to swap them +- to change scenery for both.
I think Greens value is at absolute low. He had pretty mediocre season and top it off with 0G 1A -3 in 3 games with TB. There is also injuries concerns. He had only one healthy season in his 5 NHL seasons. I checked and it is very suspicious that many of his injuries are undisclosed or upper body undisclosed (multiple concussions?). If you trade Green today you probably will be seriously disappointed in return.
Speaking of production, I think his production will not ever come back to levels of 2 years ago. I see couple of reasons here. First of all, more defensive system not only limits offensive opportunities for defs, but defs spend more time in their own zone and take more pounding, which increases fatigue, injuries and micro-injuries. Secondly, teams just figured him out. They know how to play Green and they concentrate on him as there is currently no other real tread on the blue line.

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05-06-2011, 10:09 AM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efactor View Post
Amen! I could give a shEEt if he scored 30 goals once.

If he stays, it is as a PP specialist who get about a total of 18 minutes a night. Period. He is not a first pair dman on any Cup winning squad. Most of the posters on here need to get over the fact that he is exciting and get on to evaluating players for what they are.

In my opinon, the coach overusing him is not his fault. However, he is what he is, a $3M specialist.
This is what I have been getting at for a year or so now......

there was a time that people (myself included) wondered aloud if Green would be a Leetch kind of player.....his puck skills were/are on that level.

as time has moved on I have said he is looking more like an Ozolnish.....and that continues.

Yes, Leetch had Beukeboom, Keenan, Messier, Richter....but that only means something if you think Leetch would have been half the player he was without those guys.

Green looks to be a more of a specialist than a #1 D you stick out 25+ minutes a game in the playoffs. His inconsistent play, especially when it matters most is what seperates him

and...this is important.....he isnt even Ozo until he can put up points in the playoffs

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05-06-2011, 10:43 AM
  #269
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and...this is important.....he isnt even Ozo until he can put up points in the playoffs
Ozolinsh put up 90 points in 137 career playoff games for a .66 points per game average. Green has put up 25 points in 36 career playoff games for a .69 points per game average.

I'm just saying...

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05-06-2011, 10:51 AM
  #270
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What do you guys think of Andrei Markov? He can move the puck, QB the PP, and play D. Injuries make him a risk.

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05-06-2011, 10:59 AM
  #271
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Quote:
“I thought we had sort of an imbalance on the blue line,” McPhee said on Thursday. “What you really want to have are puck movers. They keep you out of trouble in your own end. They get the puck to your forwards to create more offense, to get more pucks on net, and the only two we had in the lineup were Carlson and Green that generate that offense, and the first three games, both of them didn’t finish one game.”

McPhee went on to say that Carlson, who suffered a hip pointer that caused the muscles in his ribs and back to seize up, played hurt the entire series against Tampa Bay. Green, who missed Game 4, suffered a hip flexor injury in Game 2 and tried to play in Game 3 but was unable to finish that contest and could barely walk afterward.

Although Wideman was still rehabilitating his leg after suffering a hematoma at the end of the regular season, McPhee said the trade-deadline acquisition wanted to play in the Lightning series but wasn’t quite ready.

Green, Carlson and Wideman are all right-handed shots who excel at the type of puck movement that can be a catalyst for offense. Their absences or physical limitations did make the Capitals a slower moving group on the backend, but at the same time, all teams deal with injuries in the playoffs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...html#pagebreak

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05-06-2011, 11:55 AM
  #272
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More excuses....

I just don't care about these "reasons" anymore....it's all lip service to protect his job.


At least Hannan get's it even if his bosses boss doesn't...

You can’t use things as excuses,” said Scott Hannan, who averaged the second highest ice time per game (23:37) on the team behind Carlson (24:23) in the playoffs. “Everybody’s played those type of minutes before, everybody’s done those type of things. So you can’t – it’s never easy to have injuries, but every team has to deal with them. It’s the way you get through them.”

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Old
05-06-2011, 12:04 PM
  #273
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Ozolinsh put up 90 points in 137 career playoff games for a .66 points per game average. Green has put up 25 points in 36 career playoff games for a .69 points per game average.

I'm just saying...
sample size plays a role when comparing a guy with over 100 more games under his playoff belt.....


and in any case....the point is, his future upside is that kind of player more than it is a HoF player like Leetch.

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05-06-2011, 12:16 PM
  #274
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Let it ride.

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05-06-2011, 12:22 PM
  #275
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Let it ride.


on a vespa!

I don't get wanting to deal him. He actually was good for a series.

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