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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the hat0r thread)

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Old
01-08-2012, 04:03 PM
  #451
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Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
I think what worries people is poti, plus green's words that it may be with him all career. If the injury is recoverable. Then you sit him and don't worry about qo for next year.
That's not what worries me at all.

What worries me is that this is a Poti situation and the guy in charge of handing out contracts gave Poti a multi year extension despite knowing everything that he did.

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01-08-2012, 04:08 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
In Gaborik's case it turned out the supposed groin problem was actually referred pain from his hip or something. They fixed the problem with this hip and that solved it, as far as I know. The odds that Green has the same problem are not high.
apparantly poti cracked his pelvis and it was never treated. it healed offline and stresses one of this groin muscles. sounds to me like green's groin has been damaged in a way that cant be repaired.

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01-08-2012, 04:17 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
That's not what worries me at all.

What worries me is that this is a Poti situation and the guy in charge of handing out contracts gave Poti a multi year extension despite knowing everything that he did.
i think mcphee was told poti was fixed.

we know that mcphee has been told this green injury is chronic at best.


Last edited by txpd: 01-08-2012 at 04:24 PM.
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01-08-2012, 04:18 PM
  #454
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Green is done. LTIR him and let him walk after the season. For now, I'd extend Wideman, keep Orlov, and get another useful Dman in trade. 55 should be salary dumped for any return at all.

In the off season, bring in Suter with the money that was reserved for 52.

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01-08-2012, 04:21 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i think mcphee was told poti was fixed
His failure to evaluate his sources doesn't alter my total lack of faith in his ability to make an intelligent decision.


Last edited by BrooklynCapsFan: 01-08-2012 at 04:26 PM.
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01-08-2012, 04:29 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
That's not what worries me at all.

What worries me is that this is a Poti situation and the guy in charge of handing out contracts gave Poti a multi year extension despite knowing everything that he did.
Well that's what I meant.

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01-08-2012, 04:36 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
His failure to evaluate his sources doesn't alter my total lack of faith in his ability to make an intelligent decision.
i am not sure i get your complaint. you seem to be saying that mcphee was told by the doctors that poti was a risk and took it or that he was told he was healed and should have not believed them.

as the guy isnt a doc, you cant seriously be suggesting he should have not believed his medical advice?

frankly this conversation is pointless because to know whether mcphee went against advice or shouldnt have taken the advice, we really need to know what he knew and from whom.

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01-08-2012, 04:44 PM
  #458
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Few things that I'd like to point out on Green/the defense in general. Also as a disclaimer, im still pretty new around here and have only followed hockey seriously for the past 5 years or so, so If I'm wrong on something by all means correct me, just throwing my observations out there.

For one, I think Green clearly was not ready to come back. I don't know if its on him, trainers, Hunter, or whatever, but it was a bad call, and after Poti I'm kind of forced to question the thought process here. Just puzzling since even though we obviously could use Green every night, we weren't seriously hurting for him out there. The team has been coming along without him for a couple weeks now.

On the possibility of him being done, yes the cap hit sucks and losing someone as gifted as him sucks, but honestly the future for our PMD is still pretty bright without assuming Carlson(despite his early play this year) and Orlov continue to develop, not to mention if we can actually resign Wideman(as bleak as that is looking at this point). If anything I'm pretty worried about our defensive defensemen in the future aside from Alzner, especially if Carlson doesn't improve/get back to at least where he was last season.

Lastly, I think the Caps really need a legit tough guy(not necessarily an enforcer though), whether its on the back end or a bottom 6 guy that can actually contribute offensively. Granted we do have Hendricks and Erskine, but IMO Erskine really shouldn't be getting a sweater every night anyway. He isn't afraid to drop them, but we need someone like that that can be relied upon defensively on a daily basis. As far as Hendricks goes, I like the guy, but after seeing him last season, I'm kind of disappointed with his play this year. I don't really know exactly what type of player would fit the bill here(not a fan Bourque/Lucic type players because we need a toughguy, not some idiot that runs around cheapshoting all the time). I don't think the team is really that soft anymore, but we this IMO really is going to be a big issue going forward.

Just some thoughts.

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01-08-2012, 04:45 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Roughing View Post
Green is done. LTIR him and let him walk after the season. For now, I'd extend Wideman, keep Orlov, and get another useful Dman in trade. 55 should be salary dumped for any return at all.

In the off season, bring in Suter with the money that was reserved for 52.
You're gonna need a lot more than that.

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01-08-2012, 04:46 PM
  #460
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I hope you are wrong. He has not been worth the money he has been paid for two years now. How could he get a raise.
I think he has to get a minimum raise to get qualified (to retain his rights) doesn't he?

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01-08-2012, 04:54 PM
  #461
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I like Green and certainly don't hate him, but I called for him being traded during a game after his first injury stint last season. I got so much hate from people it was laughable. Granted, Green had a great game that night when I said he should be traded, but that is exactly why I said he should have been traded. When a player with injury issues gets healthy and plays great, a GM or manager does a gut check and makes the decision what is best for the team. I'll give the organization kudos for being loyal. I do hope Green takes time and fully recovers. He was really starting to get his defensive game together before all these injuries happened.

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01-08-2012, 04:54 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i am not sure i get your complaint. you seem to be saying that mcphee was told by the doctors that poti was a risk and took it or that he was told he was healed and should have not believed them.

as the guy isnt a doc, you cant seriously be suggesting he should have not believed his medical advice?

frankly this conversation is pointless because to know whether mcphee went against advice or shouldnt have taken the advice, we really need to know what he knew and from whom.
The point is that Poti was 32 and had suffered several injuries including multiple groin injuries. There was zero reason to extend him when he did. Or extend him at all. That is the parallel I'm making.

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01-08-2012, 05:04 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
The point is that Poti was 32 and had suffered several injuries including multiple groin injuries. There was zero reason to extend him when he did. Or extend him at all. That is the parallel I'm making.
Exactly I don't know how this is hard for anyone to understand.


My guess is Green who is extremely confident in himself will accept his qualifying offer because he thinks he can stay healthy and prove himself

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01-08-2012, 05:10 PM
  #464
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so...whats the concensus here? dont qualify him if he cant prove that he is healthy and let him walk?

if he is out for the season, that is what i would do. not qualify him

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01-08-2012, 05:15 PM
  #465
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Ideally I would trade him, but if he makes that impossible through his inability to play, I would not qualify him...unless, is there a stipulation that if you dnq a player, you can't re-sign him?

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01-08-2012, 05:15 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
so...whats the concensus here? dont qualify him if he cant prove that he is healthy and let him walk?

if he is out for the season, that is what i would do. not qualify him
I'm really curious if he would agree to sign back at a reduced rate as a UFA, just to prove he's still worth it. Doubt it, but you never know.

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01-08-2012, 06:43 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
so...whats the concensus here? dont qualify him if he cant prove that he is healthy and let him walk?

if he is out for the season, that is what i would do. not qualify him
Yes. And I believe he is done for the season (at least).

When he came back a couple games ago I was hoping he'd play a couple weeks and look good enough that somebody would want him. Now I just want him Potied.

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01-08-2012, 07:28 PM
  #468
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Hamrlik, Schultz and Knuble. That's more than enough money for Suter right there. Then assuming one of Green or Wideman leaves (if Wideman does decent in the playoffs and Hunter comes back next year he probably stays over Green), and Holtby replaces Vokoun, that's enough to give Carlson a raise and bring in Kuznetsov. Maybe even get a Weaver or Fistric type complement to Orlov on the bottom pairing.

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01-08-2012, 08:04 PM
  #469
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I'd rather have a decent second line center rather than Sutter. We need 2 scoring lines to win a cup IMO. Semin & MoJo as center is not going to do it.

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01-08-2012, 11:41 PM
  #470
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Seriously? Suter makes this defense elite for a long long time. Unless that 2nd line center is Getzlaf his impact won't be nearly as great. Even if its Getzlaf I'd wager that Suter would be more beneficial to the team. The fact that he's far more consistent in his yearly performance than any center we could realistically acquire and that he'd also only cost $$$ makes it extra tempting.

We could probably afford both Suter and a 4-5 million 2nd line center if we replace all our overpaid secondary players with much more cost effective options. Also, if we make it a retirement contract and frontload the **** out of it (for example league max during the potential lockout year as an incentive, Tyler Myers style), it might only be in the 6-7 million neighborhood, whereas your average 2nd line center will probably cost 4.5-5.5 million on a shorter term deal and will be far less effective of a player. The market has shifted to where average to marginally above average players get overpaid like crazy on medium term contracts (Cole, Leino, Wisniewski, Laich, Fleischmann, Connolly), but elite players on retirement contracts can still be paid about the same, a bit more since the over-40 clause was brought in but still about the same nonetheless.


Last edited by Halpysback: 01-08-2012 at 11:49 PM.
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01-09-2012, 10:42 AM
  #471
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You're gonna need a lot more than that.
A lot more? How?

I think Suter is a great player but do think Calgary would do it over with JB? Is Keith earning that absurd contract in Chicago? His points are cut in half from when he signed it. Never mind Campbell.

There is a limit to what any Dman is worth and Green (healthy) and Suter are roughly the same distance from that limit I would think.

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01-09-2012, 10:45 AM
  #472
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Ideally I would trade him, but if he makes that impossible through his inability to play, I would not qualify him...unless, is there a stipulation that if you dnq a player, you can't re-sign him?
Nope, it can be done that way. He would become a UFA free to sign anywhere, including the Caps. Would he? Different topic all together.

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01-09-2012, 10:49 AM
  #473
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A lot more? How?

I think Suter is a great player but do think Calgary would do it over with JB? Is Keith earning that absurd contract in Chicago? His points are cut in half from when he signed it. Never mind Campbell.

There is a limit to what any Dman is worth and Green (healthy) and Suter are roughly the same distance from that limit I would think.
He's going to get close to what Weber will, unless it's a sort of retirement deal with low years at the end. He's the best Dman to hit UFA since Chara, probably.

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01-09-2012, 11:05 AM
  #474
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Nope, it can be done that way. He would become a UFA free to sign anywhere, including the Caps. Would he? Different topic all together.
he might. if you assume that he can't play anymore this season, you'd have to think that he would have to reset his contract conditions. he might take a contract with the caps.

my view is that if his injury is bad enough that mcphee didnt qualify him that nobody would sign him to any contract close to his past deal.

IIRC there is a clause in the current cba that allows a team to sign a player under 35 and outside his ELC to a one year contract with bonuses after a serious injury. didnt kurtis foster have such a deal?

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01-09-2012, 11:05 AM
  #475
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I don't really understand why anyone on here believes we have any shot at Suter. He's the biggest free agent of the summer by far almost every team wants him lots of more impressive teams then the Caps have more Cap space. His cap hit will easily be 7 million or higher for as long as he wants really.

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