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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the hat0r thread)

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01-17-2012, 09:22 AM
  #526
Capsman
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I'm surprised people here aren't talking/speculating more about the nature of Green's surgery. In my opinion, this may be really good news, because if the surgery has any relation to his 'groin" injury, it explains a lot and increases greatly the chance that he recovers well. It sounds like that goin injury may have been some type of hernia, perhaps "sports hernia". We've seen guys like Grant Hill recover very well from that, and it gives me hope that we may have a healthy Mike Green at playoff time. I think all the "he's out for the year" and "Chris Clark path" talk is premature.

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01-17-2012, 09:37 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by Capsman View Post
I'm surprised people here aren't talking/speculating more about the nature of Green's surgery. In my opinion, this may be really good news, because if the surgery has any relation to his 'groin" injury, it explains a lot and increases greatly the chance that he recovers well. It sounds like that goin injury may have been some type of hernia, perhaps "sports hernia". We've seen guys like Grant Hill recover very well from that, and it gives me hope that we may have a healthy Mike Green at playoff time. I think all the "he's out for the year" and "Chris Clark path" talk is premature.
I want to believe this. All the talk or "permanent injury" and "learning to play with it" sounded pretty bad. If whatever is wrong can be corrected with surgery we can hope there's a chance he gets back to 100%, maybe even by the start of the playoffs.

I've gone from loving Green, to defending the "minor/fluke" injuries, to getting ticked off he's always hurt, to writing him off and feeling bad for the guy, to looking at upcoming D free agents. Basically, all the stages of grief. I'm still willing to give him one more shot even though it's a risk. GMGM has a tough damn job.

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01-17-2012, 09:43 AM
  #528
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Speculating on injuries seems somewhat frowned upon in this establishment. But injuries are a big part of our teams current situation and discussions are certainly in order IMO. Our top C and top D down. The TDL looming makes the discussion all the more relevant. Green and Nick's injuries leave lots open for speculation from a personnel perspective, ignoring the medical side. But I think some here don't like to hear debbie downer negative speculation - "what if he is done for the year" scenarios. It makes them uncomfortable.

I believe the surgery for Green is related to his groin, the root of the problem. If it's a coincidence like Poti that there are two issues different there, that would really suck. Fingers crossed its one in the same and he can make it back to help us this year.


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01-17-2012, 09:58 AM
  #529
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Sucks. Can't trade him, probably won't walk away from him, can't rely on him in the playoffs even when he is healthy, which is almost never, in May. Sucks.

Anyway, you can't get anything for a busted offenseman with a heavy price tag and a major decision to make in a few months. Every other team in the league is glad it doesn't have to make a decision on an important organizational player like McPhee does in the near future.

At least they learned to live without Green this year. Can't overcome the loss of Backstrom for very long before the walls cave in. That's the guy they need back in the worst way, or the season goes south... and with head injuries, you just don't know. You have to expect they take their time with it. Sucks.

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01-17-2012, 10:09 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
he's cost the caps too much over the last two years. that is a sunk cost, but he is still under the caps control. getting 1 good year at a discount would be a decent move at this juncture.

you are advocating giving a big contract to a player with serious health concerns, just because you don't want to see him walk away for nothing. meanwhile, that big contract likely at least $1.5-2m than what any other team would offer him. that's just burning money and cap space.
I'm not advocating it, I'm telling you how I expect it to work out.

The Caps are not so short sighted as to let a guy like this walk for nothing unless maybe if his career is in jeopardy.


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01-17-2012, 10:42 AM
  #531
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Ignoring injuries entirely, there are two important considerations that would stop me from giving Green a big money deal.

He has never shown the ability to play both great defense AND great offense. He has never overachieved or even met expectaions in the postseason.

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01-17-2012, 11:01 AM
  #532
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I actually thought that Green did darn good defensively last year. I don't remember a single critical oops moment. Now truth be told Bruce didn't even try him in the role he Yzermaned aka relegated upon himself - instead he let the kid Carlson just HAVE the role instead. So he may have have been tested fully. It was Carlson or bust. Something I thought a mistake, that over a long long season, there was time to see what Alzner Green could do defensively. Because Green relished the role I think it would have been wise to embrace it and tell Carlson he will get his turn next month or next year. Spilled milk at this point.

Unfortunately it is difficult to grade Green is his playoff performances because injuries have limited him. I think his worst series was against Montreal. After that is when he decided to focus on defense, which may have limited him offensively. I do remember seeing Hannan Erskine Alzner far more deep in the offensive zone than Green. All year long.

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01-17-2012, 11:44 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Roughing View Post
I want to believe this. All the talk or "permanent injury" and "learning to play with it" sounded pretty bad. If whatever is wrong can be corrected with surgery we can hope there's a chance he gets back to 100%, maybe even by the start of the playoffs.

I've gone from loving Green, to defending the "minor/fluke" injuries, to getting ticked off he's always hurt, to writing him off and feeling bad for the guy, to looking at upcoming D free agents. Basically, all the stages of grief. I'm still willing to give him one more shot even though it's a risk. GMGM has a tough damn job.
The article said 4-6 weeks which puts him at the trade dead line. He'd have at least a few weeks after that to get back into game shape so if the surgery is a success, he should be ready for the playoffs.

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01-17-2012, 11:46 AM
  #534
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It's good to at least read that there seems to be some optimism that this will be over after the surgery. Perhaps Green's comments a while back were based on NOT having surgery.

So they should have a few games of regular season and the playoffs to evaluate him and this injury's recovery before having to sign him or Wideman.

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01-17-2012, 11:54 AM
  #535
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GMGM: "It’s basically a sports hernia but there are a couple parts to it. One was a tendon issue, one was a little tear in the stomach"

Well **** a duck he does have two things going on. The word "basically" doesn't seem apres paux. It sounds more like a complex thing to me. So yeah it seems high time that surgery is the next step to getting him put back together. Hopefully he comes back like our own robocop. Stay out of trouble.

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01-17-2012, 01:24 PM
  #536
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Assuming the surgery is successful and he's able to come back after that looking something like Mike Green, I think I'd sign him for a year at his QO and see how things play out.

That's assuming the cap stays where it is or goes up under the new CBA, and that LTIR continues to be a cap option.

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01-17-2012, 02:50 PM
  #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
Assuming the surgery is successful and he's able to come back after that looking something like Mike Green, I think I'd sign him for a year at his QO and see how things play out.

That's assuming the cap stays where it is or goes up under the new CBA, and that LTIR continues to be a cap option.
Feel the same way re: bolded. Or possibly a two year deal chewing up one year of UFA.

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01-17-2012, 03:11 PM
  #538
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which is better? signing him to a one year qo contract and have light it up coming to UFA or believe that he is and give him 3 years and make the cap happy?

i think is easy to say sign him to a one year, but this is a player if healthy that could break the ufa back with on one season hitting on all cylinders.

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01-17-2012, 03:15 PM
  #539
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which is better? signing him to a one year qo contract and have light it up coming to UFA or believe that he is and give him 3 years and make the cap happy?

i think is easy to say sign him to a one year, but this is a player if healthy that could break the ufa back with on one season hitting on all cylinders.
Yeah. Green probably knows this as well as the team does. Maybe his inclination one way or another would indicate how good he really feels about his ability to return to form once he comes back. He might only want the one-year deal if he felt good about his chances of a great season. He obviously could be wrong too though.

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01-17-2012, 03:17 PM
  #540
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GMGM: "Itís basically a sports hernia but there are a couple parts to it. One was a tendon issue, one was a little tear in the stomach"

Well **** a duck he does have two things going on. The word "basically" doesn't seem apres paux. It sounds more like a complex thing to me. So yeah it seems high time that surgery is the next step to getting him put back together. Hopefully he comes back like our own robocop. Stay out of trouble.
Unless the tendon deal just recently caused the tear, why wasn't this done sooner? That just isn't something you mess around with considering the physical nature of hockey.

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01-17-2012, 03:21 PM
  #541
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Unless the tendon deal just recently caused the tear, why wasn't this done sooner? That just isn't something you mess around with considering the physical nature of hockey.
Probably because they're always loathe to move too quickly towards a surgical option, and always prefer to see if it can heal on its own.

May have been a timing thing, too. They may have said "you get til this date to put off surgery, see if it heals" but since now the recovery period takes them up to the trade deadline, when they really need a solid answer on his status, they may have run out of time to wait.

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01-17-2012, 03:21 PM
  #542
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Probably it is up to how much a gambler Green is. Probably the most aggressive to score a big contract is to play next year on a qualifying and banking for healthy year game plays as well as decent stat wise. Considering the injuries the past two years this seems like a real gamble. CBA uncertainty is also a factor. If I were Green I would try to be a bit more practical and maybe explore a two or three year deal for the guaranteed money. Granted the team would have to want this as well.

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01-17-2012, 06:27 PM
  #543
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which is better? signing him to a one year qo contract and have light it up coming to UFA or believe that he is and give him 3 years and make the cap happy?

i think is easy to say sign him to a one year, but this is a player if healthy that could break the ufa back with on one season hitting on all cylinders.
Even better, let him play a few weeks and show he is healthy. Sign to a far 3 year deal. And trade him in the off season.

And be happy we got out of this with something to show for it.

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01-17-2012, 06:36 PM
  #544
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Even better, let him play a few weeks and show he is healthy. Sign to a far 3 year deal. And trade him in the off season.

And be happy we got out of this with something to show for it.
This is a very realistic scenario.

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01-17-2012, 07:07 PM
  #545
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i hope you're joking. he's an rfa. if you just want to get rid of him, trade him and let the new team get a deal.

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01-17-2012, 07:09 PM
  #546
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i hope you're joking. he's an rfa. if you just want to get rid of him, trade him and let the new team get a deal.
Yeah, I was being very sarcastic.

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01-17-2012, 07:18 PM
  #547
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i wouldnt be surprised if there arent a handful here that are disappointed to hear that surgery may fix his problem.

anyway...back to the action

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01-17-2012, 07:32 PM
  #548
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i wouldnt be surprised if there arent a handful here that are disappointed to hear that surgery may fix his problem.

anyway...back to the action
I will be very disappointed if we keep him after the surgery. He should only get a contract to keep his rights so we can trade him.

Green being hurt is nothing new. He is yet to show he can hold up to the pounding he gets. He was great until team started to focus on him. And since then he has not able to stay on the ice. And his game drops way off when he is banged up.

You would think some of you would have learned your lesion with Green this season.
We are going on three years now of me saying “We will never be able to count on Mike Green for a 20+ game playoff run”

I said he was soft and should be traded before the season started. And you laughed at me.

And your boy Mike Green came in strong and played 10 games. I am not sure who is more of the joke at this point.


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01-17-2012, 07:37 PM
  #549
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01-17-2012, 08:03 PM
  #550
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GMGM: "Itís basically a sports hernia but there are a couple parts to it. One was a tendon issue, one was a little tear in the stomach"

Well **** a duck he does have two things going on. The word "basically" doesn't seem apres paux. It sounds more like a complex thing to me. So yeah it seems high time that surgery is the next step to getting him put back together. Hopefully he comes back like our own robocop. Stay out of trouble.
Listening to XM radio NHL On Ice, Power Play on the way home this evening. Scott Laughlin played the McPhee interview he had with reporters regarding Green's surgery. McPhee as you indicated stated sports hernia, advised that it was the same injury/surgery that Chris Clark and Jamie Heward had. Surgery will be by a Dr. Brunt located in St. Louis and will involve strengthening the stomach lining with a screen so he doesn't experience any similar problems in the future. Apparently Dean Evason had the same surgery at one point in his career. Believes that he should start skating three weeks after the surgery and should be back 4 to 6 weeks.

Was also asked about Poti and is as Txpd had indicated, undetected fracture to the pelvis. McPhee said Poti continues to work out with the intention of coming back, however you could tell that he was not that confident that he'll ever come back.

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