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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the hat0r thread)

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02-21-2012, 09:40 PM
  #576
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Starting in '07-'08, and for the following three years, the team gave management reasons to find some pieces for a playoff run. Especially in '07 when there was no guarantee that they would get a playoff berth - they still deserved a chance from the front office based on what they were doing on the ice.

This year, the Caps players have earned no such confidence from management. **** 'em. Go golf. Make any deals that stock the shelf.

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02-21-2012, 09:43 PM
  #577
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I can't believe you busted that out.

The 2008 Caps were worthy of Han Solo.

The 2012 Caps are worthy of the Star Wars movie currently in theaters.


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02-21-2012, 09:48 PM
  #578
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Im grasping at straws man.

Even though I apparently have a job within the Leonisis Regime.

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02-21-2012, 10:38 PM
  #579
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The Capitals with Dennis Wideman are terrible. The Capitals with a healthy Mike Green were one of the best teams in the league. The choice is pretty obvious to me. Sell Wideman for whatever is available, qualify Green/re-sign him for current salary to a short-ish contract, get Kuz to come over, and find a #2C.

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02-21-2012, 10:59 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
The Capitals with Dennis Wideman are terrible. The Capitals with a healthy Mike Green were one of the best teams in the league. The choice is pretty obvious to me. Sell Wideman for whatever is available, qualify Green/re-sign him for current salary to a short-ish contract, get Kuz to come over, and find a #2C.
Right on! Very well said.

I'd only add that goalie position has to be solidified either by re-upping Voks or...something else. Neuvy has to go.

Also, the 3rd and 4th lines have contributed no O this year. Hendricks isn't good enough for the NHL. Ward makes about 2.5 million too much for what he does. The same goes for Laich.

I think we have to suck it up and trade Mojo. The kid will be good but never great.

We probably need another stud at D.

Orlov looks great. Alzner is excellent. Carlson will get it together. If Green is ok then:

Orlov-Green
Alzner-Carlson
Hamr-???

That's not bad but it obvious needs some muscular panache and bad attitude. Orlov belongs on RD with Hammer Time until he gets his ao going consistently.

Schultz must go.

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02-21-2012, 11:16 PM
  #581
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I don't understand the "Trade Johansson" bandwagon. He's a second year European import with leadership qualities at the U-20 level, has an NHL frame, definitely NHL wheels, and despite the number of fudged empty net shots in the past few weeks he's already beaten last season's point totals. He got hot down the stretch last year and might again, we've seen extended glimpses of 2C potential, and he's always given effort at both ends of the ice.

Despite his relatively small size I always see him doing his best to take the body on the forecheck, and that to me says that with maturation he's only going to get more effective both offensively and defensively as he learns to body people off the puck, and with his hands and vision, I don't know why the collective "you" would want to give up on a slumping sophomore with the tools to be an efficient 60-point two-way player with electric speed, even if he has to move to the wing to stay in the top 6.

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02-21-2012, 11:27 PM
  #582
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Yeah, I hear you. I just don't believe he can be the 60 pt 2nd line C or winger that you can count on. His hockey sense is iffy.

I'm not sure, though, to be honest. Something is wrong with the whole team's hockey sense. They can't make basic passes, they break sticks on shots, miss the net...I don't know what happened. But Mojo is a guy I would trade in a package for a legit star 2C. Is Chris Stewart good enough/too good? Matt Duchene? Who can be had?

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02-21-2012, 11:36 PM
  #583
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Chris Stewart is obviously not a center....

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02-21-2012, 11:44 PM
  #584
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Fair enough, Stewart is a RW. Struggling to put up pts in STL this year. He had 15g in 26 games w/ STL last year after the trade.

He'd be a guy I'd look at getting. But we'd still need a 2C.

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02-21-2012, 11:51 PM
  #585
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Fair enough, Stewart is a RW. Struggling to put up pts in STL this year. He had 15g in 26 games w/ STL last year after the trade.

He'd be a guy I'd look at getting. But we'd still need a 2C.
Yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to adding Stewart, particularly if his value has reached a low point. Don't know what his contract is like. But yeah, adding a 2C absolutely has to be the top priority.

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02-22-2012, 12:03 AM
  #586
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Well, that's different. Johansson can go for Duchene or Stastny.

But what is it about the internet that seems to cause it to slowly degrade everything we knew about patience in this sport? Seems like some want Carlson and Johansson to be traded just to get rid of them and their errors.

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02-22-2012, 12:19 AM
  #587
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You guy really want to keep a player with this history long term. Knowing if he could stay healthy for a little while we could get a real 2C and not the "We can trade Mojo and get Matt Duchene" None sense

2012/02/18 Missed 18 games (groin).
2012/01/12 Groin, injured reserve.
2012/01/09 Groin, day-to-day.
2012/01/03 Missed 24 games (groin).
2011/12/31 Groin, injured reserve.
2011/11/25 Groin, sidelined indefinitely.
2011/11/12 Groin, day-to-day.
2011/11/11 Missed 6 games (ankle injury).
2011/10/27 Ankle injury, day-to-day.
2011/04/13 Missed the last 20 games of the regular season (head injury).
2011/03/09 Head injury, injured reserve.
2011/03/06 Head injury, sidelined indefinitely.
2011/02/26 Head injury, injured reserve.
2011/02/25 Missed 5 games (undisclosed).
2011/02/14 Undisclosed, day-to-day.
2010/12/15 Missed 2 games (flu).
2010/12/11 Flu, day-to-day.
2010/11/28 Missed 2 games (undisclosed).
2010/11/24 Undisclosed, day-to-day.
2010/10/23 Missed 3 games (upper body injury).
2010/10/16 Upper body injury, day-to-day.
2010/04/09 Missed 1 game (undisclosed).
2010/04/06 Undisclosed, day-to-day.
2010/01/30 Suspended by the NHL for three games.
2010/01/23 Missed 1 game (undisclosed).
2010/01/21 Undisclosed, day-to-day.
2009/11/11 Missed 1 game (upper body injury).
2009/11/07 Upper body injury, day-to-day.
2009/03/17 Missed 1 game (flu).
2009/03/16 Flu, day-to-day.
2008/12/28 Missed 2 games (shoulder injury).
2008/12/23 Shoulder injury, day-to-day.
2008/12/19 Shoulder injury, day-to-day.
2008/12/12 Missed 11 games (right shoulder injury).
2008/11/22 Right shoulder injury, day-to-day.
2008/07/01 Re-signed by the Washington Capitals to a four-year contract

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02-22-2012, 08:58 AM
  #588
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Yup, you've already posted that. Thanks again!

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Old
02-22-2012, 09:28 AM
  #589
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Originally Posted by HTFN View Post
I don't understand the "Trade Johansson" bandwagon. He's a second year European import with leadership qualities at the U-20 level, has an NHL frame, definitely NHL wheels, and despite the number of fudged empty net shots in the past few weeks he's already beaten last season's point totals. He got hot down the stretch last year and might again, we've seen extended glimpses of 2C potential, and he's always given effort at both ends of the ice.

Despite his relatively small size I always see him doing his best to take the body on the forecheck, and that to me says that with maturation he's only going to get more effective both offensively and defensively as he learns to body people off the puck, and with his hands and vision, I don't know why the collective "you" would want to give up on a slumping sophomore with the tools to be an efficient 60-point two-way player with electric speed, even if he has to move to the wing to stay in the top 6.
I think all of this is spot on, and it's probably why people have to look beyond their current frustration with MoJo's failure to step up while Nicky's out. The parts of his game that still need to develop -- strength on the puck, decision-making in his own end, knowing when to pass/when to shoot/when to just dump, becoming more of a finisher -- are really jumping out at me right now, because these are all things Nicky has and they're things we're not getting from ANY of our centers right now. And we can't make the playoffs unless someone playing center starts to exhibit those attributes.

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02-29-2012, 05:31 PM
  #590
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How has Green looked since his return to the lineup?

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02-29-2012, 05:34 PM
  #591
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How has Green looked since his return to the lineup?


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02-29-2012, 05:51 PM
  #592
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How is his passing and shot?

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Old
02-29-2012, 06:09 PM
  #593
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His skating is all that matters. And that does not look hampered. Everything else comes in time.

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02-29-2012, 06:19 PM
  #594
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How is his passing and shot?
What the mod said. His hands don't look 100% back yet, but he's been skating well (which is what most of us care about).

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02-29-2012, 09:32 PM
  #595
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Quote:
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How has Green looked since his return to the lineup?
He's looked good. Considering how much time he's missed one forgets the skillz he has with his vision, skating, and hockey sense/instincts. Just to my eyes he is still easing his way back a bit. Hunter's systems versus Boudreau's means he, or any other D, are not as aggressive offensively barring a need for it being down and late in the game so a little hard to tell.

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03-01-2012, 11:44 AM
  #596
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Originally Posted by Mr Gone View Post
You guy really want to keep a player with this history long term. Knowing if he could stay healthy for a little while we could get a real 2C and not the "We can trade Mojo and get Matt Duchene" None sense
Who says that these things are mutually exclusive? We can have Green and a #2C.

Who says that one of Mojo/MP/Kuznetsov won't be that player as soon as next year? All are still young and have the potential to take over that role.

Who says that we can't sign or trade for someone this summer to take over that role without having to relinquish Green?

Green is a young top 2 Dman who is still growing and rounding out his game. We know he can skate, pass, score, hit and he showed he can play D last year. He is the best offensive dman since Paul Coffey. This kind of player doesn't come around that often.

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03-01-2012, 12:41 PM
  #597
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Green's still too risky, IMO.

-- Fragile
-- Still too many lapses for a top pairing guy, even an offensive one
-- A record of getting neutralized in playoffs
-- Not sure the overall IQ is there
-- High expected salary mainly based on reg.season heroics under BB's run-n-gun
-- Given the way Caps manage the cap, his salary might prevent the Caps from ever signing "the big stabilizer" -- a true #1 all-around veteran rock.
-- If Green manages to stay healthy the rest of the year, he might still fetch a great return that can fill a bunch of needs and eliminate a lot of risk.

For sure, it's possible that Green will round out into a great defenseman. But for this team, a long term deal would be too risky, IMO.

But that's theory. Given that he seems pretty healthy right now, I have few doubts that he'll get a multi-year deal from the Caps in the 5.5m+ range.

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03-01-2012, 12:47 PM
  #598
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Green's still too risky, IMO.

-- Fragile
-- Still too many lapses for a top pairing guy, even an offensive one
-- A record of getting neutralized in playoffs
-- Not sure the overall IQ is there
-- High expected salary mainly based on reg.season heroics under BB's run-n-gun
-- Given the way Caps manage the cap, his salary might prevent the Caps from ever signing "the big stabilizer" -- a true #1 all-around veteran rock.
-- If Green manages to stay healthy the rest of the year, he might still fetch a great return that can fill a bunch of needs and eliminate a lot of risk.

For sure, it's possible that Green will round out into a great defenseman. But for this team, a long term deal would be too risky, IMO.
Disagree

- He's only been fragile over the last calendar year basically.
- All dmen have lapses especially ones who are younger (he's having less and less of them every year)
- His IQ on ice is outstanding. You don't have the vision he does if not. He knows where to go with the puck.
- He's worth every penny of his salary as long as he doesn't ask for the moon
- Since when has McPhee signed "the big stabilizer"?? He thought about Chara for a second but thats as close as he's come.
- He's worth more to the Caps than other teams especially since he probably still has the stigma of an injury prone "soft" closet winger.

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03-01-2012, 12:52 PM
  #599
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Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
The Capitals with Dennis Wideman are terrible. The Capitals with a healthy Mike Green were one of the best teams in the league. The choice is pretty obvious to me. Sell Wideman for whatever is available, qualify Green/re-sign him for current salary to a short-ish contract, get Kuz to come over, and find a #2C.
This. Greener is a huge part of this team's current winning ability.

And despite Mojo's piss poor play as of late, I do believe he can grow into that coveted #2C spot that we so desperately need. I think a lot of his bad play has just been the increased pressure of having to be Backstrom these past few months when the kid just isn't Nicky.

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03-01-2012, 12:57 PM
  #600
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Yeah, watching the games since his return, it's very obvious to me that Green is so far ahead of every defenseman on the roster (and typically every defenseman on the ice). He sees the ice better, reads the play better, skates better, and is more skilled.

Unless you're getting an elite defenseman back, I think it'd be a huge mistake to move him. And I think it'd be an even bigger mistake to let him walk in free agency while you've got nearly $8M wrapped up in defensemen that aren't even playing (plus another $2.75M in Schultz).

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