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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the hat0r thread)

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Old
04-29-2012, 10:35 PM
  #801
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
Holtby was horrible. That was the best goal he gave up. He was really, really bad.
Yep. This piling on Green doesn't happen if Holtby was average in game 1. I like the kid's moxie, so I think he'll bounce back mentally. Let's just hope Prior irons out some fundamental issues with stick placement and such.

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04-30-2012, 07:40 AM
  #802
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Maybe this is isn't the case here but sometimes the color guys are really annoying. At times they do a good job of explaining the play but other times they just blame one player way too much.

When I heard about the Kreider goal and then watched it I wondered if I missed had something. The puck is deep in NYR zone, Hamr and Green switched sides, Green went to bench, Hamr got caught, puck wasn't kept in O zone, and Holtby flubbed the shot. Team fail.

And then to boot Green is accused of throwing his teammates under the bus after being prompted by the media. I didn't hear that either. I heard him do his best to describe the play without doing that. He mentioned no names whatsoever. To me he was just describing his thought process.

I actually thought Green got back in pretty good shape but I've heard the play described as a "breakaway". That shot seems to be a "weak" spot for Holtby.

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04-30-2012, 08:41 AM
  #803
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
wait....this is the first ive seen of that goal. that was a 40ft shot with no screen. why is green being criticized for that goal? you dont win a cup if your goalie cant stop that shot.

further, green didnt misplay that angle. he cut him off and forced him to shoot a slap shot from distance instead of carrying a breakaway to the net.

this is not some anti holtby rant but he has to have that.
I agree that he cut him off, and I'm simply being picky here, but I thought if he skates another 2 feet that shot is blocked or goes short side. Hey, I'm as big a Green supporter as there is, so no hate here.

But again, am I wrong about Callahan interfering?

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04-30-2012, 11:14 AM
  #804
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Originally Posted by Capsman View Post

But again, am I wrong about Callahan interfering?
This I was complaining about interference on my couch before the goal was even scored or a break away was even caused. I thought that was text book interference. Maybe its just me though? idk guess its just a subtle pick that goes unnoticed in this years playoffs if so we have to see that adjust and take advantage as a team I notice the bruins being able to set these picks as well.

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04-30-2012, 11:21 AM
  #805
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Callahan 100% blatantly interfered with Johansson on the Kreider goal. He didn't even pretend to be playing the puck. He simply rubbed the backchecker off the play. So yeah, the play shouldn't have continued.

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04-30-2012, 11:29 AM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Capsman View Post
I agree that he cut him off, and I'm simply being picky here, but I thought if he skates another 2 feet that shot is blocked or goes short side. Hey, I'm as big a Green supporter as there is, so no hate here.

But again, am I wrong about Callahan interfering?
1. he clearly was going for a change. anyone with any knowledge can see that.

2. how often does semin or ov score a goal when the d puts his stick in and deflects at near the launch point? when that happens an otherwise routine shot becomes hard to stop. that shot was a shot from warm ups distance from a rookie. very likely green felt like it was safer to let him shoot that than get a stick in there late.

3. if holtby allows a goal or goes like that in game 2, the caps chances at winning this series will be minimul and we will here how it was schultz fault or semin or somthing along those lines,

edit: just saw the youtube highlights. that was a shutout and holtby gave them 3. the wraparound and the richards goal were shots that should have had no light at all.

this falls well into the catagory of had that been neuvirth this forum would have had burning at the stake in a new york minute


Last edited by txpd: 04-30-2012 at 11:34 AM.
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Old
04-30-2012, 12:02 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
1. he clearly was going for a change. anyone with any knowledge can see that.

2. how often does semin or ov score a goal when the d puts his stick in and deflects at near the launch point? when that happens an otherwise routine shot becomes hard to stop. that shot was a shot from warm ups distance from a rookie. very likely green felt like it was safer to let him shoot that than get a stick in there late.

3. if holtby allows a goal or goes like that in game 2, the caps chances at winning this series will be minimul and we will here how it was schultz fault or semin or somthing along those lines,

edit: just saw the youtube highlights. that was a shutout and holtby gave them 3. the wraparound and the richards goal were shots that should have had no light at all.

this falls well into the catagory of had that been neuvirth this forum would have had burning at the stake in a new york minute
Of course we all know he was going for a change. But are you saying that a defender should never try to stop a shot because there is a risk of it deflecting in? I mean Green did in fact put his stick out in an attempt to block it, or so it seemed. What does make sense though, now that I think about it, is that he didn't want to screen Holtby from seeing the shot's release. I really have no problem with that play by Green, honestly. The initial change, however, appeared slow and disorganized. I mean you would figure when we crossed NY's blue line and Semin is just shooting the puck would be the time to change. Instead we see Semin shooting, HL blocks it to the right boards, NY comes up with the puck and is skating the other way, and Green is barely near the door. Between that and the too many men penalty, we need to clean up our changes.

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04-30-2012, 01:40 PM
  #808
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just from the replay, green was close enough to the bench for his replacement to come on, but he didnt.

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04-30-2012, 02:37 PM
  #809
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just from the replay, green was close enough to the bench for his replacement to come on, but he didnt.
Yeah I don't know who was supposed to be going on but Green was all the way at the wall, turned around and looked, and then tried to catch up and almost made it. Usually when he is 6-8 feet from the boards the other guy is already over the wall and skating so if that had happened I don't think there is any doubt whoever that guy is would have cut off Kreider before he got a shot off.

Now who wasn't paying attention? It stands to reason that it was either Carlson or Wideman as they are the other right sided blueliners. Carlson had played the shift before Green but he was only out there 24 seconds. He also got the shift right after that goal, but this time for only 23 seconds. It is hard to tell IMO...

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04-30-2012, 02:41 PM
  #810
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It was Wideman based on post-game comments.

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04-30-2012, 03:24 PM
  #811
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Its a split second thing, maybe Wides thought we would get a TMM if he jumped on soon enough to catch Kreider, or thought it was probably better to have Green go get him, the bench presumably yelling to clue Green in. Dude, right behind you.

As it was, Green almost got him.

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04-30-2012, 03:27 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
1. he clearly was going for a change. anyone with any knowledge can see that.

2. how often does semin or ov score a goal when the d puts his stick in and deflects at near the launch point? when that happens an otherwise routine shot becomes hard to stop. that shot was a shot from warm ups distance from a rookie. very likely green felt like it was safer to let him shoot that than get a stick in there late.

3. if holtby allows a goal or goes like that in game 2, the caps chances at winning this series will be minimul and we will here how it was schultz fault or semin or somthing along those lines,

edit: just saw the youtube highlights. that was a shutout and holtby gave them 3. the wraparound and the richards goal were shots that should have had no light at all.

this falls well into the catagory of had that been neuvirth this forum would have had burning at the stake in a new york minute
ummmmmm..........not sure if you saw the first round but holtby gets a pass due to his performance against boston. if he gives up soft ones again tonight, the burning at the stake will begin.

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04-30-2012, 03:29 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by amjay13 View Post
ummmmmm..........not sure if you saw the first round but holtby gets a pass due to his performance against boston. if he gives up soft ones again tonight, the burning at the stake will begin.
He absolutely does not get a pass. He gets to continue playing, for now. The utter horribleness of his performance still needs to be acknowledged fully.

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04-30-2012, 03:32 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
He absolutely does not get a pass. He gets to continue playing, for now. The utter horribleness of his performance still needs to be acknowledged fully.
softies happen to even the best from time to time. if the same thing occurs tonight, then it's time to be worried.

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04-30-2012, 03:32 PM
  #815
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Originally Posted by amjay13 View Post
ummmmmm..........not sure if you saw the first round but holtby gets a pass due to his performance against boston. if he gives up soft ones again tonight, the burning at the stake will begin.
ummmmmm....

the point was scapegoating green for a shot that should have been a routine save is a waste of energy and emotion. had those three goals been allowed by a goalie already tied to the whipping post rather than sitting on a pedistal it would have been the goalie taking the heat.

since as you say, holtby gets a pass for the crappy goals, green gets burned for being in the vacinity.

ummmmmm....ok by you?

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04-30-2012, 03:33 PM
  #816
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softies happen to even the best from time to time. if the same thing occurs tonight, then it's time to be worried.
I'm not sure why you felt this post was necessary.

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04-30-2012, 03:37 PM
  #817
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I'm not sure why you felt this post was necessary.
because you are over-reacting

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04-30-2012, 03:39 PM
  #818
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
ummmmmm....

the point was scapegoating green for a shot that should have been a routine save is a waste of energy and emotion. had those three goals been allowed by a goalie already tied to the whipping post rather than sitting on a pedistal it would have been the goalie taking the heat.

since as you say, holtby gets a pass for the crappy goals, green gets burned for being in the vacinity.

ummmmmm....ok by you?
green shoulda made a play and holtby shoulda made the save. combine those two things and you have the rangers first goal. why does it have to be one or the other?

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04-30-2012, 03:40 PM
  #819
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softies happen to even the best from time to time. if the same thing occurs tonight, then it's time to be worried.
its already time to worry, my friend. if it happens again tonight, the caps will be down 2 gams to zip. they will need to win 4 games out of the next 5 with either a shaky goalie or a goalie that hasnt played a game in a month.

this is particularly critical when your team game plan is to try and win with minimum offense.

you'd have to think that giving up 14 shots and 3 goals on routine shots, it pretty much undermines the entire strategy. that game should have been a shutout.

very likely the caps live and die with the game tonight. i wouldnt change goalies, but i am certainly not confident after seeing those three goals....btw..in the boston series holtby had games close to like that but won them 4-3.

i like the goalie, but he has not been consistantly lights out. they won and he gets credit. remember game 1 v boston. yes he was great, but they lost the game in overtime on a goal just like the krieder goal. 40ft+ and unscreened. he has made some really outstanding saves, but if you look at the kid's playoff ratio of goals allowed to soft goals allowed and its not that pretty.

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04-30-2012, 03:43 PM
  #820
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its already time to worry, my friend. if it happens again tonight, the caps will be down 2 gams to zip. they will need to win 4 games out of the next 5 with either a shaky goalie or a goalie that hasnt played a game in a month.

this is particularly critical when your team game plan is to try and win with minimum offense.

you'd have to think that giving up 14 shots and 3 goals on routine shots, it pretty much undermines the entire strategy. that game should have been a shutout.

very likely the caps live and die with the game tonight. i wouldnt change goalies, but i am certainly not confident after seeing those three goals....btw..in the boston series holtby had games close to like that but won them 4-3.
i have faith he'll bounce back but yeah, i pretty much agree with everything you've said here. say holtby struggles again tonight, what are the odds they make the goalie switch? i'd say pretty low.

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04-30-2012, 03:45 PM
  #821
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green shoulda made a play and holtby shoulda made the save. combine those two things and you have the rangers first goal. why does it have to be one or the other?
green did make a play. krieder has high end speed and green used his speed to force the guy to shoot a routinely saved shot. had that been carlson or wideman krieder skates it all the way in clean for a breakaway.

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04-30-2012, 03:47 PM
  #822
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i have faith he'll bounce back but yeah, i pretty much agree with everything you've said here. say holtby struggles again tonight, what are the odds they make the goalie switch? i'd say pretty low.
if he gives up 3 soft goals and the caps lose again, i'd expect neuvirth to play if he is healthy enough to play. frankly if he gives up a gimme like those, especially the wraparound or the open slap shot, i would not be shocked to see holtby get the quick hook.

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04-30-2012, 03:52 PM
  #823
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i guess the question is, what will it take for the caps to beat this rangers team?

holtby is the guy with the higher ceiling and the lower floor. neuvy is solid as he probably won't win a game for ya on his own but likely won't lose one either (assuming he is healthy).

i think this caps team is better than this rangers team so all they really need from their goalie is to match king henrik at the other end. which goalie gives them the best chance at that?

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04-30-2012, 03:55 PM
  #824
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if he gives up 3 soft goals and the caps lose again, i'd expect neuvirth to play if he is healthy enough to play. frankly if he gives up a gimme like those, especially the wraparound or the open slap shot, i would not be shocked to see holtby get the quick hook.
I would be pretty surprised. I don't remember the exact wording, but I'm pretty sure Hunter's assessment of Holtby's game was much more positive than it should have been (not that he's going to throw the guy under the bus). Holtby and Beagle also appear to be Hunter's two very favorite players. I hope we don't find out, and I hope I'm wrong if we do, but I don't really trust Hunter to make the right call if that happens.

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04-30-2012, 04:03 PM
  #825
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I would be pretty surprised. I don't remember the exact wording, but I'm pretty sure Hunter's assessment of Holtby's game was much more positive than it should have been (not that he's going to throw the guy under the bus). Holtby and Beagle also appear to be Hunter's two very favorite players. I hope we don't find out, and I hope I'm wrong if we do, but I don't really trust Hunter to make the right call if that happens.
I'm guessing he puts Aucoin in on top of Beagle as some sort of odd 2-man goalie machine and goes with 4 regular skaters. Aucoin already has a long enough stick that he could still use it while sitting on Beagle's shoulders and should help in his plan to limit both team's offensive chances.

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