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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the hat0r thread)

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Old
01-25-2013, 09:03 PM
  #901
caps4cup
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I think he's fine. He just needs to skate the puck more and utilize his skating as a whole better.

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01-25-2013, 09:07 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
What you say very well maybe a big factor for sure.

However I have observed this "underwhelming" enthusiasm of the team for 3 years now.

This team basically looks like the same team under BB last year. With Hunter they played junk 50/50 hockey so that masked the lack of "want". (also Hunter seemed to play the "want" players over the other guys..maybe he was onto something?)

What I'm sayin is that there is something rotten with the team. I don't think its Green. I am convinced now it wasn't Semin, Flash, BB or any other whipping boy player.

It has to do with the mix and locker room chemistry. That falls on the architect.
This makes no sense, because they were big parts of that locker room, so obviously they were apart of the rotten locker room chemistry.

So either it's someone that's still amongst the crew, or the whole team, and everyone McPhee brings in, gets assimilated into the badlocker room aura.

On paper, the team looks decent, with some players who have history of working hard, and not being trouble in the locker room (not noted anyway...)

BB and the caps got outed by a hot goalie and a very good defensive system. McPhee forced BB to change his style, the team isn't made for that kind of style, BB failed. McPhee refused to believe, and brought in another coach to try to achieve it, they had some success, but still not what they are capable of.

Now there is Oates, give him a couple of weeks before you expect the final product. Lavi came in mid-season and taught the Flyers his system in no time, it's not gonna take so long for Oates...

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01-26-2013, 02:58 AM
  #903
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Rotten locker room chemistry comes from team failing.

Team failing comes from team looking good on paper, GMGM buying the look and subsequently failing to prepare for reality which is different from paper. The Montreal team that broke our back Bane style was put together with an emphasis on chemistry and everyone being able to play the same style. They got more out of Gomez and Gionta than anyone had a right to. Ditto for Cammalleri and Plekanec as well as roleplayers like Moore and Pyatt, and their defense even without Markov. Gainey may have been horrible at asset management but he knew how to put together a team that fit his coach's system and had everyone be on the same page.

Also, the team on paper looks bad right now. 3 offensively talented players and a bunch of plugs. One good defensive pairing and a mishmash beyond. For the team to consistently win the best players have to carry it and mask a ton of other flaws. Not really a reliable strategy.

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Old
01-26-2013, 03:11 AM
  #904
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Old idea sounding as good as ever after tonight's game.
Move him to the ****ing RW.

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01-26-2013, 07:14 AM
  #905
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of course the reality is that he is special because of his skill set as applied to playing defense. how many goals against has green been on the ice for this year? last night karl alzner who had been struggling was solid playing with green.

right now, with as poorly as carlson is playing, this bash green stuff should take a break.
right this minute he is the best defenseman on the team at either end of the ice.

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Old
01-26-2013, 09:43 AM
  #906
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Admittedly I'm not a Green fan, but I always thought GMGM did a disservice not getting him a shutdown guy to complement his game. Alzner seems to help, but the top 4 could use a physical presence. Trading for someone like Robyn Regehr from a year ago.= would of made a lot of sense.

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01-26-2013, 09:54 AM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Admittedly I'm not a Green fan, but I always thought GMGM did a disservice not getting him a shutdown guy to complement his game. Alzner seems to help, but the top 4 could use a physical presence. Trading for someone like Robyn Regehr from a year ago.= would of made a lot of sense.
Njd fans said they'd take Perreault and a 2nd for A train.

Do it GMGM

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01-26-2013, 10:06 AM
  #908
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Originally Posted by bonzaibondra12 View Post
Njd fans said they'd take Perreault and a 2nd for A train.

Do it GMGM
you know why that is i hope. its not because they think he is great.

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01-26-2013, 10:31 AM
  #909
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Green is not a problem for this team. Those of you that think Carlson can fill his skates have not seen any games this year.

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01-26-2013, 11:01 AM
  #910
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
you know why that is i hope. its not because they think he is great.
That is exactly what we need tx.

A cheap defenseman who is mid-aged and a lefty. He might be "not that great" but he can still play the third pair:

Alzner, Green
Orlov, Carlson
Volchenkov, Kundratek

I highly doubt they would trade him for MP85 and a 2nd round pick though.

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01-26-2013, 11:07 AM
  #911
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I'm curious why people still think 52 is anything special..... When was the last time he played at an all-star level for any length of time?

Whether he is a problem or not is almost moot IMO, he is at best an average player.....until he proves otherwise.

People can debate whether he is worth a damn in his own zone, I think down low he stinks and loses one-on-one battle way too much for a guy who gets $$ and ice time. That could be offset if he was the player he used to be with the puck but seriously, when was the last time we saw that regularly.

Ad I'm not even bringing up the player he has never been, a playoff factor.

I ask this because I see his name brought up in trade discussions where he is the main piece bringing back a fairly significant piece......52 is not a special player anymore. Maybe that returns but I see no indicators of that

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01-26-2013, 11:09 AM
  #912
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Trade Green to Philly.

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01-26-2013, 11:12 AM
  #913
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Trade Green to Philly.
Why, so the best RD can be "On the ice for 7 in a row and 12 of 17 against" Carlson? Sounds like a plan.

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01-26-2013, 11:44 AM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
I'm curious why people still think 52 is anything special..... When was the last time he played at an all-star level for any length of time?

Whether he is a problem or not is almost moot IMO, he is at best an average player.....until he proves otherwise.

People can debate whether he is worth a damn in his own zone, I think down low he stinks and loses one-on-one battle way too much for a guy who gets $$ and ice time. That could be offset if he was the player he used to be with the puck but seriously, when was the last time we saw that regularly.

Ad I'm not even bringing up the player he has never been, a playoff factor.

I ask this because I see his name brought up in trade discussions where he is the main piece bringing back a fairly significant piece......52 is not a special player anymore. Maybe that returns but I see no indicators of that
Good observation... and you can add # 8 with him... whose game also took an unlimited leave of absence.

Thing is... Capsdom wishes desperately that both 52 & 8 are the players they once were, and refuse to see the evidence of their own eyes for the last couple years. And it really has been a couple of years since we've seen good and consistant play from either.

Oates wants this soft bunch to avoid contact? Geez... that's like sending butter toward a hot knife.

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01-26-2013, 11:48 AM
  #915
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He played the most mins in the best game so far this year. Clearly if he was as bad as some make him out to be we would be getting slaughtered. Did one of the guys mention 31mins last night? Half the game? Not to mention if not for his offense we don't even get our one loser point.


Nuevy played great. Green was second best. I think if he stays healthy we see him with 20 or more points. He has been hitting guys as well. The transition game of his is starting to pick up. Notice it's he who has been dumping the pucks in the zone a lot. Green is ready to jump in plays but those plays are not forming quite yet.

I see maybe one good rush from Carlson a game and him getting beat and chasing someone and our pk which he is the top rd flat out stinks. He is cap America however.

Poti invisible. Hammer slow. Green carries the load.

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Old
01-26-2013, 12:46 PM
  #916
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Green carries the load.
And he will be targeted, obv.

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01-26-2013, 01:01 PM
  #917
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And it really has been a couple of years since we've seen good and consistant play from either.
Off-topic but Ovi had his best month in last four years in March.

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01-26-2013, 01:03 PM
  #918
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Time to split up Alzner Carlson for a trial run.

Green with Alzner
Carlson with hammer

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Old
01-26-2013, 01:19 PM
  #919
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green has a special skill set. thats why i still think he is something special. i am not invested in the idea that he sucks. his defensive play has improved. his skating explosion which what sets him apart appears to have returned.

the only issue left is whether he can stay healthy. if he can/does, he brings something that no other defenseman in the league can. he was strong in the playoffs in the limited system. he has been very good the past two games.

how many want to trade him purely on health? my guess is that those that want him out want him out because they dont like his play and the health thing is just gravy.
if his health were no longer a question and his game continued as we've seen this season, i'd bet most of the trade him crew would still want him gone

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01-26-2013, 01:19 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by Bure View Post
Time to split up Alzner Carlson for a trial run.

Green with Alzner
Carlson with hammer
did you watch the nj game?

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Old
01-26-2013, 02:53 PM
  #921
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Alzner, Green
INSERT, Carlson
Orlov, Kundratek

Isn't a horrible lineup for the future if you get a quality defenseman. Pair him up with Carlson though, he needs the "help". If you put a piece of crap player with him it looks awful. If you put a quality level defenseman who is a starter/2nd pair on their team, it will help siginficantly.

Trade some of the others (Schultz, Ward, Perreault, Chimera) to get that spot. Trade one of the netminders for a backup like Budaj for all I care and a solid forward.

When Forsberg jumps ship place him on the 2nd line. Kuznetsov when he comes on the 1st. The "solid forward" on the 2nd.

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Old
01-26-2013, 03:03 PM
  #922
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You can hate Green for not being in the lineup, but head injuries weren't his fault.

When in the lineup, he has been much better than Carlson since game 1 last year.

I think Carlson will get better, but he gives the puck up way too much. Green isn't doing that.

I don't understand the hate for Green. He isn't a perfect player, but few are. Like Semin last year. He is one of the few actually performing, but still gets hate.

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01-26-2013, 03:03 PM
  #923
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When Orlov is ready Kundratek is going back down as he clearly needs a good amount more AHL seasoning IMO. Also Orlov might be a left shot but he is a much more comfortable and better player on the right and that is where he should be.

Erskine is good enough to play 3rd pairing minutes and bring some size and snarl to the back end. I don't like it when he gets 17+ minutes like last night but he can handle 12 just fine.

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Old
01-26-2013, 04:29 PM
  #924
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BradD the problem with all your trades is you think other teams will give something for our players with bad contracts (Schultz, Ward, Perreault, Chimera). These players have little to no value and you think we can trade our junk for players good enough to turn this team around.

Other GMs are not dumb enough to trade anything of value for our scrubs, they have eyes they know those guys stink.

If those offers you throw out were realistic they would have happened


The option to get a change here could follow NYR pattern and send our overpaid guys to the minors or waivers eat the salary and buy FA but we all know ted is to cheap for that.

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Old
01-26-2013, 04:32 PM
  #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
green has a special skill set. thats why i still think he is something special. i am not invested in the idea that he sucks. his defensive play has improved. his skating explosion which what sets him apart appears to have returned.

the only issue left is whether he can stay healthy. if he can/does, he brings something that no other defenseman in the league can. he was strong in the playoffs in the limited system. he has been very good the past two games.

how many want to trade him purely on health? my guess is that those that want him out want him out because they dont like his play and the health thing is just gravy.
if his health were no longer a question and his game continued as we've seen this season, i'd bet most of the trade him crew would still want him gone
His special "skill set" is really just rushing the puck up the ice and taking a shot.

A lot of players had that skill set over the years: in the old days, they'd bench a Dman that did that. And that's the truth.

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