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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the hat0r thread)

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02-11-2013, 04:17 AM
  #951
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Philly needs a puckmover on the back end. Green or Carlson if either are available. What is the price?
Coburn + top 6 forward, i.e. a price Philly wouldn't pay.

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02-11-2013, 06:35 AM
  #952
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Philly needs a puckmover on the back end. Green or Carlson if either are available. What is the price?
neither are available....though i get a kick out of boston fans that are convinced mcphee was talking to boston about boston needing to dump salary and trading j boychuk for carlson. that makes me laugh

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02-11-2013, 06:49 AM
  #953
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Can you ask McPhee if they will remain untouchable no matter the return, their entire career?

It sure seems like fans are down on Carlson. Most times I state that I think he has good offensive skills, someone disputes it. Fickle crowd I know but few sing his praises.

Kundratek is moving up quickly. Orlov while out remains a top prospect. That next RH puck fumbler / mover is never far out of George's sight.

I don't want Carlson moved. But if a GM is foolish enough to grossly overpay for one of our prospects, I want George to consider the offer.

What is the disease called where fans overvalue their own prospects.

George has the GM version.

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02-11-2013, 07:07 AM
  #954
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ok....i am wrong. if shero called and said he would trade mcphee malkin for carlson, mcphee would listen. as a rule gm's dont grossly overpay. even when desperate. those that do get fired, like waddell in atlanta trading coburn for zhitnik.

i assume for these conversations that the gm's involved arent lost and that they are not going to pay a ridiculous return to get a player that is not on the trade block. the caps just signed both green and carlson. it doesnt make any sense to trade them.

would you trade carlson to boston for a bad contract in johnny boychuk??

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02-11-2013, 07:29 AM
  #955
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ok....i am wrong. if shero called and said he would trade mcphee malkin for carlson, mcphee would listen. as a rule gm's dont grossly overpay. even when desperate. those that do get fired, like waddell in atlanta trading coburn for zhitnik.

i assume for these conversations that the gm's involved arent lost and that they are not going to pay a ridiculous return to get a player that is not on the trade block. the caps just signed both green and carlson. it doesnt make any sense to trade them.

would you trade carlson to boston for a bad contract in johnny boychuk??
There's a middle ground between trading someone for Malkin and trading him for Boychuk.

If GMGM feels comfortable with a right side of Green/Orlov/Bottom pair guy X and another GM approaches him with a good deal for a player at a position the team is weaker in (say LD), it would be dumb not to consider it. Not that I think McPhee would pull the trigger on such a deal, but it might make sense from an overall team standpoint to trade a guy like Carlson in the right deal.

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02-11-2013, 07:43 AM
  #956
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It depends on which Carlson GMGM is trading. I'd take offers on the current one since his perceived value is high especially if there would be a top 6 forward involved along with Boychuk.

As for Boychuk I think he's actually better than Carlson defensively and has a decent shot. And as a bonus he'll drop the gloves. Well he does in Boston.

Would it give better offensive / defensive balance on the right?

And obviously it would depend on the deal as a whole. Don't mean to imply I'd just trade Carlson for Boychuk straight up - at all.

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02-11-2013, 07:55 AM
  #957
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a. so when is orlov going to be ready for top 4 minutes?
b. carlson for boychuk? seriously? you would do that? even boston fans think carlson is the much better player over the long haul.
c. rh said grossly overpay. thats what i responded to.

edit: so where are the caps if green gets hurt. alzner, boychuk, orlov and who?
edit 2: jurcina also had a great shot. that doesnt mean he is an offensive player.

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02-11-2013, 08:53 AM
  #958
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
In addition to being easily the Caps' best defensive defenseman this season, Green is fourth on the team in points, and his pace would project to 15 goals and 30 assists over 82 games.

He's the least of our problems this season.
Anyone watching the games wouldn't need statistics to understand that Green has been our best D by far and away.

Seems the kid gets better the more he plays and his D has progressively been improving over the years.

It's probably the sweet hair flowing action.

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02-11-2013, 09:07 AM
  #959
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Anyone watching the games wouldn't need statistics to understand that Green has been our best D by far and away.

Seems the kid gets better the more he plays and his D has progressively been improving over the years.

It's probably the sweet hair flowing action.
The improvement in his defensive stick work this season has been massive, and is ideal for saving his fragile body.

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02-11-2013, 09:22 AM
  #960
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Carlson has had a few rough games so far this season but it hasn't been as bad as people here are making it out to be. He's been fine overall. First you guys jump on Mike Green, and now that he's playing excellent you have to find someone else to jump on? Sheesh. Lets not forget - Carlson was our best defenseman during the playoffs last season. He was a man possessed.

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02-11-2013, 09:29 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
Carlson has had a few rough games so far this season but it hasn't been as bad as people here are making it out to be. He's been fine overall. First you guys jump on Mike Green, and now that he's playing excellent you have to find someone else to jump on? Sheesh. Lets not forget - Carlson was our best defenseman during the playoffs last season. He was a man possessed.
Carlson's season has been some bright spots, some terrible decisions, and some laughably bad luck, I think. Hasn't he still been on the ice for more goals against than any other player in the league? Think he was up there at some point recently, at least.

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02-11-2013, 09:53 AM
  #962
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Carlson's season has been some bright spots, some terrible decisions, and some laughably bad luck, I think. Hasn't he still been on the ice for more goals against than any other player in the league? Think he was up there at some point recently, at least.
I think it's Hodgson now.

Edit: 3-way tie between Hodgson, Pominville, and Carlson at 23.

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02-11-2013, 10:03 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
Carlson has had a few rough games so far this season but it hasn't been as bad as people here are making it out to be. He's been fine overall. First you guys jump on Mike Green, and now that he's playing excellent you have to find someone else to jump on? Sheesh. Lets not forget - Carlson was our best defenseman during the playoffs last season. He was a man possessed.
I agree. I don't want Carlson moved. He needs to stay with the Caps. It amazes me people want to get rid of Mike Green.

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02-11-2013, 10:05 AM
  #964
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Anyone watching the games wouldn't need statistics to understand that Green has been our best D by far and away.

Seems the kid gets better the more he plays and his D has progressively been improving over the years.

It's probably the sweet hair flowing action.
It's probably the sweet hair flowing action.

Haha, I want Ovie to grow his hair out again.

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02-11-2013, 10:09 AM
  #965
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Green fully recovering from the sports hernia surgery as well as pairing him with Alzner has obviously helped Green's game this season. The Gralzner pairing needs to remain.

With regards to Carlson, the Caps need to be looking for someone who will be a good partner for him. Would love to see GM pry Tinordi from the Habs. Carlson/Tinordi might be a nice pairing.

Listening to Matthew Barnaby on the radio the other day and his assesment of Sabres Tyler Myers, Barnaby thought that Myers decision making on the ice was his most glaring weakness. I would rate decision making as the number 1 must for any defenseman.

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02-11-2013, 10:28 AM
  #966
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I am thrilled Alzner and Green have been tried.

Ironically, it was Alzner that suggested it.

I know a few others besides me have wanted to see that pairing since draft day.

I often caught flack selling the RH LLC principles of pair making. Unless all pairings are dominating, consider to pair up young and old, right and left, offensive and defensive, soft and hard.

Even after everyone saw how great Poti and Carlson were against Montreal, next year it was back to almost everyone wanting Alzner and Carlson for 82 straight games.

I feel that one of Erskine Sarge Poti and Hammer can help steady Carlson. If not, I support Tinner too. II.

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02-11-2013, 11:08 AM
  #967
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Carlson's season has been some bright spots, some terrible decisions, and some laughably bad luck, I think. Hasn't he still been on the ice for more goals against than any other player in the league? Think he was up there at some point recently, at least.
So what? He was a team worst +/- last year too and struggled for much of the regular season.

By playofftime he was awesome. He's young. He will struggle. But one thing about him..when we need him to he always comes up huge and plays well in the playoffs.

Quote:
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I feel that one of Erskine Sarge Poti and Hammer can help steady Carlson.
I see a huge difference in the team when #4 is in the lineup. We have been MUCH better and its b/c he provides a physical presence unmatched amongst our D.

He missed the 2 games vs Pitt...our D had 4 hits total COMBINED in 2 games. Simply unacceptable.

He brings the edge we need and definitely needs to see top 4 minutes going forward unless we get an improved version of him thru trade.

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02-11-2013, 11:14 AM
  #968
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
So what? He was a team worst +/- last year too and struggled for much of the regular season.

By playofftime he was awesome. He's young. He will struggle. But one thing about him..when we need him to he always comes up huge and plays well in the playoffs.
That's all well and good as long as he's not dragging them down too far. Like I said, I feel like some of his problems have been just poor luck. But at some point it becomes a problem. Stepping up in the playoffs isn't any good if you're part of the reason your team doesn't make the playoffs.

I'm not saying ship him out, I'm not saying tar and feather him. But he's no sacred cow, and he deserves a decent amount of the criticism being thrown at him right now.

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02-11-2013, 11:16 AM
  #969
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Randy's always been vocal about wanting:

- Ovi on the RW
- Green and Alzner paired
- Beagle as top C

Its clear he's Adam Oates.

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02-11-2013, 11:19 AM
  #970
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That's all well and good as long as he's not dragging them down too far. Like I said, I feel like some of his problems have been just poor luck. But at some point it becomes a problem. Stepping up in the playoffs isn't any good if you're part of the reason your team doesn't make the playoffs.

I'm not saying ship him out, I'm not saying tar and feather him. But he's no sacred cow, and he deserves a decent amount of the criticism being thrown at him right now.
Lots of players deserve some criticism for sure..when your team wins 3 out of 12 it usually involves multiple culprits.

But there are no culprits we need to focus on more than our goalies. They've been the main reason we have stunk it up. Positive sign this past weekend tho.

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02-11-2013, 11:22 AM
  #971
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Lots of players deserve some criticism for sure..when your team wins 3 out of 12 it usually involves multiple culprits.

But there are no culprits we need to focus on more than our goalies. They've been the main reason we have stunk it up. Positive sign this past weekend tho.
Agreed, for the most part. I'm troubled that Carlson doesn't seem to have improved over last season. That would be a huge silver lining even if the team were still terrible this year. But not panicking or writing him off... yet.

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02-11-2013, 11:54 AM
  #972
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Anyone watching the games wouldn't need statistics to understand that Green has been our best D by far and away.

Seems the kid gets better the more he plays and his D has progressively been improving over the years.

It's probably the sweet hair flowing action.
the plain fact of the matter was that green was the trigger for the caps drag racing offense. he had not remotely the amount of nhl experience required to handle that on a cup level hockey team. both the physical pressure of being the main target of opposition and the mental pressure of everything from that responsibility to public rebuke by steve yzerman overwhelmed him.

now...he is more mature. his defensive play has progressed in leaps. he is a legit first pair defenseman and with alzner they are a tall pair. still...watch him turn his own net with the puck and turn up ice. the speed and grace that he does that is unmatched and then you can see his head up scanning the play. frankly, i still think there is a norris trophy in him.

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02-11-2013, 12:00 PM
  #973
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maybe the team is different when erskine is playing, but...is he really good enough for 20+ top 4 minutes? i am skeptical. if he is a 6 playing the minutes a real 4 should be, then i doubt that he is the guy to steady carlson unless you are thinking carlson has been intimidated into his rash of bad play.

i am not against erskine other than i dont think he is a top 4. what the caps need is an actual top 4 that has erskine's traits rather than erskine himself in that role.

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02-11-2013, 12:04 PM
  #974
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Erskine's been getting rather lucky in that, with the amount of chances against he's seeing, he should have been scored on more than he has been. I mean he's playing well and all, but he's a ticking time bomb if you lean too heavily on him.

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02-11-2013, 12:04 PM
  #975
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Quote:
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Carlson's season has been some bright spots, some terrible decisions, and some laughably bad luck, I think. Hasn't he still been on the ice for more goals against than any other player in the league? Think he was up there at some point recently, at least.
He has been on the ice for 10 goals against, Alzner for 9. However, goals against are scored at a higher rate while Schultz, Hamrlik, and Kundratek are on the ice. If they had Carlson's ice time they'd have more goals against than him.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+25+26+27+28#

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