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Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the hat0r thread)

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Old
05-04-2011, 09:50 PM
  #201
HOLDITHERE
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Why has this thread reached 8 pages? If it was bashing the idea for 8 pages, that'd be alright...


But...it's not? People are serious?

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Old
05-04-2011, 09:52 PM
  #202
EroCaps
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Green should not be moved. He was playing his best hockey in years until he got hurt this series and you can hardly put any of this debacle squarely on him.

He's shown signs of maturing.

Semin, on the other hands, needs to return to Siberia.

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Old
05-04-2011, 10:17 PM
  #203
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Better question. Who wants a concussed and injury-prone, playoff choking, defensive liability?

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Old
05-04-2011, 10:35 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Green should not be moved. He was playing his best hockey in years until he got hurt this series and you can hardly put any of this debacle squarely on him.

He's shown signs of maturing.

Semin, on the other hands, needs to return to Siberia.
I wish Semin would actually get a ##$*ing shot on net instead of high and wide. Then again he did a lot of good in these playoffs and playoffs past, so I would like to see him under new leadership first before disposing of him. I think a lot of guys felt like since the opportunities were limited they had to make every shot count, either upper corner or nothing. Psyche plays a large part in performance. Tampa could simply do no wrong, it was unbelievable.

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Old
05-05-2011, 01:14 AM
  #205
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Mike Green is not a championship caliber hockey player.

There are plenty or moron GM's out there, but the ones who are in charge of contenders will have little interest in this player.

Dude will never step on the ice for the Canadian National team during the Olympics in his entire career.

Bank it.

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Old
05-05-2011, 05:02 AM
  #206
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Say bye bye to Green, Semin and Schultz are my words.

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Old
05-05-2011, 05:29 AM
  #207
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Green is an elite puck moving defenseman and the best offensive defenseman in the NHL. Moving him would be stupid.

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05-05-2011, 05:38 AM
  #208
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Yes because he is the ultimate in taking care of his responsibilities in his own end. The guy gives up as much as he scores. he is a pylon in his own end, period.

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05-05-2011, 05:41 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C For Choke View Post
Green is an elite puck moving defenseman and the best offensive defenseman in the NHL. Moving him would be stupid.
Wow

You should try watching him in the playoffs before you make idiotic comments.

The guy brings ZERO to the table when the game is on the line. Some team will overpay us for him and hopefully we can get a defender who actually knows how to play good D as well as give hits rather than take them all the time in a trade.

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Old
05-05-2011, 07:24 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C For Choke View Post
Green is an elite puck moving defenseman and the best offensive defenseman in the NHL. Moving him would be stupid.
not in the playoffs he isnt

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Old
05-05-2011, 08:08 AM
  #211
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It's foolish to move him. He is still young. His defensive game is catching up with his offensive game. Has had Norris mentions. Give him a reasonably complimentary partner, and then grade him. Bruce was an IDIOT to not pair him with Hannan or Alzner this year, and make a formidable top pair. He has been stuck with Schultz most of his career.

His problems in the playoffs have been injury related. It wasnt too long ago we couldnt win a game without him in the lineup.

Bruce plays favorites with him which has been detrimental to the team. If Bruce is gone, Green can stay. He is top pair worthy and you know it, 52 just needs a coach that can figure out how to assemble a complimentary top pair that can play any situation. And can get the most out of him, not just his offense.

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Old
05-05-2011, 08:19 AM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
It's foolish to move him. He is still young. His defensive game is catching up with his offensive game. Has had Norris mentions. Give him a reasonably complimentary partner, and then grade him. Bruce was an IDIOT to not pair him with Hannan or Alzner this year, and make a formidable top pair. He has been stuck with Schultz most of his career.

His problems in the playoffs have been injury related. It wasnt too long ago we couldnt win a game without him in the lineup.

Bruce plays favorites with him which has been detrimental to the team. If Bruce is gone, Green can stay. He is top pair worthy and you know it, 52 just needs a coach that can figure out how to assemble a complimentary top pair that can play any situation. And can get the most out of him, not just his offense.
it really sounds like you are blaming BB for all of 52's shortcomings, and thats just wrong.

I get what you are saying, and there is something to it....but again, when you are paid as a #1 D your partner should not dictate if you can play or not. You have to stand on your own, to some extent anyway

and I disagree that his defensive game has taken some huge jump.....in the playoffs, when it counts.

I DONT CARE if he has gotten a little better during the reular season (at the expense of his offensive numbers I should add)....its the playoffs where it counts


Jim Carey looked great in the regular season....crumbled in the playoffs

BB has HoF winning percentage in the regular season....is under .500 in the playoffs

and...Mike Green is a Norris finalist during the regular season, a shell of that in the playoffs

we all say it, playoffs are a different beast....but then no one considers it when its happening.

all that said, im not 100% sure you move him either (if you bring in a new HC). I agree the physical tools are there, for all zones. I question his smarts, I have for 2 years now. 55 on the other hand, he needs to go

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Old
05-05-2011, 08:39 AM
  #213
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It is really tough to have the patience needed to grade a defensemen.

I do blame Bruce for a lot of what happens with his favorite players. If they dont do well, how much of that is on the player? He had Mike Green focusing on offense for years when really what needed to develop was his defensive game. His defensive game, stunted possible compared to a different coaches priorities. Rewarding Green with 2TOI per PP despite giving lack luster efforts in other parts of the game. Year after year. He got spoiled and into bad habits because of his fav coach that gives him 27 TOI no matter his effort. that is playing favorites and that is bad coaching.

Optional practices when it became obvious a lot of adjustments needed to be done, should say it all. We can't expect Green to adjust to their 131 if the coach doesnt tell him how to do it.

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Old
05-05-2011, 09:00 AM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
It is really tough to have the patience needed to grade a defensemen.

I do blame Bruce for a lot of what happens with his favorite players. If they dont do well, how much of that is on the player? He had Mike Green focusing on offense for years when really what needed to develop was his defensive game. His defensive game, stunted possible compared to a different coaches priorities. Rewarding Green with 2TOI per PP despite giving lack luster efforts in other parts of the game. Year after year. He got spoiled and into bad habits because of his fav coach that gives him 27 TOI no matter his effort. that is playing favorites and that is bad coaching.

Optional practices when it became obvious a lot of adjustments needed to be done, should say it all. We can't expect Green to adjust to their 131 if the coach doesnt tell him how to do it.

I agree with much of this....but then I see him take terrible angles, or play a 2-on-1 as badly as a player can play it....and I say, thats not BB's fault. There are certain things that fall flat between the 5 and the 2 in terms of who is responsible.

The franchise needs to figure out a direction to go with this player. He makes impact player money, and will be up for a new contract soon. I dont see him taking a pay cut at all, much less a big one. Going forward do you pay Green 5-6 mil a year for a few years or do you go a different route now?

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Old
05-05-2011, 09:11 AM
  #215
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HOCKEYSENSE

You can have all the tools in the world but if you have no toolbox it really doesnt matter. Green is a guy who has a great skillset but everytime I watch him he looks to have very little hockeysense. He makes bad reads, makes silly gambles, takes untimely penalties. He almost looks like a player sometimes that would be better suited playing forward. You cant really build a strong defence when a guy like this is playing the amount of icetime he does. Similar thing with Tomas Kaberle and funny enough the minute he left Toronto they became a better team defensively. If I was the Caps i'd try dealing him for a solid two way defencemen or gritty top 6 player.

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Old
05-05-2011, 09:20 AM
  #216
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There are certainly problems seen in Green's defensive game or maybe his hockey sense. I just dont see how a guy can get a good share of Norris votes without at least basic hockey sense.

I am just not sure how much Green has been coached on his defensive issues. No one does but him and Bruce. I tend to think it has largely been overlooked in Bruce's offense first country clubesque tenure, otherwise Bruce would throw him under the bus, or George would trade him for never learning. We cut our ties, he couldnt learn how to play a 2 on 1. No one would question that.

I am surprised there arent more calls for him to be moved to forward. Anyone that patterns their game after Paul Coffey should expect time at forward.

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Old
05-05-2011, 09:26 AM
  #217
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The hockey sense question extends to pretty well all of his teammates quite frankly. They all have poor habits and appeared increasingly worn down mentally. I'd be inclined to give him another season under more of a disciplinarian and then make the judgment call when he needs a new contract.

I might shop him regardless but I doubt they'd get a great package in return unless they're comfortable getting younger yet again.

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Old
05-05-2011, 09:27 AM
  #218
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I consider myself a rational person here and I think its time to move him.

I've said before that I think he has the highest upside in the league (all positions), but its time to win now, and I don't want to wait on him to develop. Especially when he's only good for 65 games and is going to make a fortune in the intervening years.

Typing that out, every legitimate gripe about Semin applies to Green as well. Emotional penalties/taking himself out of the play to make a hit, can't stay healthy, makes way too much considering his gp, significant decline in production, still hasn't hit his ridiculously high ceiling, uneven playoff performer.

This team doesn't need that.

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05-05-2011, 09:30 AM
  #219
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No No No No No

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Old
05-05-2011, 09:42 AM
  #220
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I like Green, and do believe he will improve defensively but... I'd much rather have a more defensive-minded, tougher Dman for half the money (e.g. Hannan). We can't give everyone a high dollar contract and Green isn't *that* special, much as I like him.

I'd look for takers for: Varly, Green, Schultz , Poti and Perreault

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Old
05-05-2011, 09:53 AM
  #221
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Who Mike Green is paired with determines a great deal about how Mike Green performs. This was part of GMGM's kicking the tires on Willie Mitchell last summer. Mitchell's not only a good defensive defenseman but also a good mentor, just look at what he did for Kevin Bieska's game when they were paired together. A lot of us will agree that when Hannan and Green were paired together while Schultz was out, Green seemed to be much better and more responsible. Logic would of or should of said that that pairing of Hannan and Green should of remained intact. For what ever reason BB and the other coaches did not see it that way and reunited Green and Schultz. That was a bad decision, one more reason a change in coaching is needed.

Hannan needs to be re-signed and Schultz needs to be shipped out to allow the resigning of Hannan.
2011/12 defensive pairings should look something like this:
Hannan-Green
Alzner-Carlson
Poti-Wideman
Erskine
Would like to see Caps pick up another veteran d-man because as this season has proven, you need at least 8/9 defenseman to survive the season.

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Old
05-05-2011, 10:06 AM
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
Who Mike Green is paired with determines a great deal about how Mike Green performs. This was part of GMGM's kicking the tires on Willie Mitchell last summer. Mitchell's not only a good defensive defenseman but also a good mentor, just look at what he did for Kevin Bieska's game when they were paired together. A lot of us will agree that when Hannan and Green were paired together while Schultz was out, Green seemed to be much better and more responsible. Logic would of or should of said that that pairing of Hannan and Green should of remained intact. For what ever reason BB and the other coaches did not see it that way and reunited Green and Schultz. That was a bad decision, one more reason a change in coaching is needed.

Hannan needs to be re-signed and Schultz needs to be shipped out to allow the resigning of Hannan.
2011/12 defensive pairings should look something like this:
Hannan-Green
Alzner-Carlson
Poti-Wideman
Erskine
Would like to see Caps pick up another veteran d-man because as this season has proven, you need at least 8/9 defenseman to survive the season.
the problem is with what I put in bold....

it was regular season....when it counts, 52 has not been a player you can count on 25+ minutes a night on D. All this talk about pairing him with the right kind of player is all well and good....and can impact the level of his play...it should not however dictate if he is effective at all. If you are paying a defender 5+ mil you should be looking who you can pair with him so that HE can help them....not the other way around

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05-05-2011, 10:07 AM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
Who Mike Green is paired with determines a great deal about how Mike Green performs. This was part of GMGM's kicking the tires on Willie Mitchell last summer. Mitchell's not only a good defensive defenseman but also a good mentor, just look at what he did for Kevin Bieska's game when they were paired together. A lot of us will agree that when Hannan and Green were paired together while Schultz was out, Green seemed to be much better and more responsible. Logic would of or should of said that that pairing of Hannan and Green should of remained intact. For what ever reason BB and the other coaches did not see it that way and reunited Green and Schultz. That was a bad decision, one more reason a change in coaching is needed.

Hannan needs to be re-signed and Schultz needs to be shipped out to allow the resigning of Hannan.
2011/12 defensive pairings should look something like this:
Hannan-Green
Alzner-Carlson
Poti-Wideman

Erskine
Would like to see Caps pick up another veteran d-man because as this season has proven, you need at least 8/9 defenseman to survive the season.
I like that, good post.

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Old
05-05-2011, 10:09 AM
  #224
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Hey I can finally log in to this site to comment. Been shut out for whatever reason since the 2nd intermission last night.

Anyway, I think Green needs to hang around 1 more year. Wideman still has 1 year left on his contract so why not see what this team can do next year with a ful year of Wideman lightening the load on Green. Green plays less minutes during the regular season which hopefully translates to Green going onto the playoffs with less wear and tear on his body. Then when next year is over a decsion can be made whether to keep Green, Wideman, or both. I am just really interested to see how having Wideman for a year affects Greens mental and physical health going into next years playoffs.

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Old
05-05-2011, 10:26 AM
  #225
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I too agree with Ref9.

My only issues...not sure if Poti can or will come back and play at his previous level.

That may mean a potential new coaching staff would see Schultz value as a 7, with an Erskine/Wideman pairing. Still need an 8/9 as TFS should not be on the team.

(Collins wasn't bad last night either, I might add)

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