HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Calgary Flames
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Anton Babchuk

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-10-2011, 02:40 PM
  #51
The Gnome
Registered User
 
The Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
He plays in a role that essentially renders his creativity useless.

His game flourishes off of the rush and entering the zone with speed, he however is being used in a role that sees him dump and chase which IMO completely hinders his offensive game.

He also plays as the high forward ( as a centermen ) on a line that thrives on the cycle with Tko and Jackman for the most part, Which also plays a part in what seems to be his offensive struggles.

Backlund has not being given the flexibility offensively yet by brent and hopefully that will come in time.
I agree, but to be great in this league you have to be able to adapt. If he shows more aggression, and hardnosed corner play, he'll get his chances to shine with our best players. He hasen't done enough to deserve an expanded role on this team.

Hopefully the coaches give him more chances in the future though. A handfull of games with Iggy is not going to hurt him or the team at the start of the season.

The Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2011, 02:42 PM
  #52
The Gnome
Registered User
 
The Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
so you want to move a player that is capable of playing in the top 4 for one that is incapable of playing in the top 4?... I'm sorry but that doesn't make alot of sense to me... I get liking the bomb from the point but he is average at best defensively and the worst skater on the team (Modin would give him a run for that though)... if Babchuk would sign for under 2.5 I say bring him back... otherwise we would be looking at paying another bottom pairing single dimension defenseman almost $3 million *cough* Staios *cough*
granted that is true, but every game he seems to be excelling in those areas. I'd discuss this more at year's end when his development can truely be evaluated. He might be able to step into a top 4 role next year.

The Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2011, 02:48 PM
  #53
Lunatik*
 
Lunatik*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lethbridge
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
granted that is true, but every game he seems to be excelling in those areas. I'd discuss this more at year's end when his development can truely be evaluated. He might be able to step into a top 4 role next year.
Babchuk has been used in a top 4 role before in Carolina and struggled... don't get me wrong I would prefer Babchuk in our lineup to Brodie 10 days a week... in a perfect world our defense would look like this next season...

Reggie - Bouw
Gio - Sarge
Erixon - Anton
Mikkelson/Carson

I just don't think we will have the cash to do it... and if Brodie continues developing he beings a similar game and more mobility than Anton... and remember I am not exactly a fan of Brodie

Lunatik* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2011, 04:40 PM
  #54
HighLifeMan
HFB Partner
 
HighLifeMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,930
vCash: 152
I think Babchucks foot speed is over analyzed and his defensive game is much better than most give him credit for.

The only area where his foot speed gets taken advantage of would be when he tries to hold the line in the offensive zone and gets caught flat footed. The same could be said for Sarich, the difference being that Anton is much more active on that front. You also get the rare time where he can be beat out of the corner but he very rarely strays to far out of position, which certainly helps.

He has slow acceleration in general due to his large frame and awkward stride, but can certainly get the puck up ice once his feet get moving.

I hope to see him back at the start of next year, but we can not afford to overpay in this situation considering the depth we have on our backend.

HighLifeMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2011, 08:44 PM
  #55
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Formerly MVW
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,086
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
so you want to move a player that is capable of playing in the top 4 for one that is incapable of playing in the top 4?... I'm sorry but that doesn't make alot of sense to me... I get liking the bomb from the point but he is average at best defensively and the worst skater on the team (Modin would give him a run for that though)... if Babchuk would sign for under 2.5 I say bring him back... otherwise we would be looking at paying another bottom pairing single dimension defenseman almost $3 million *cough* Staios *cough*
Trust me I totally get what your saying, but to me Babchuk is not a typical bottom pairing defenceman. I agree that is where he will be playing most of his minutes 5 on 5 if he resigns in Calgary, but at the same time he also would be playing on our top PP unit. He is also capable of putting up a minimum of 10 PP goals which for a d-man is pretty dam good. And canon of a shot makes teams have to respect it, which opens alot of scoring chances for the Flames down low. Just his presence on the PP is an asset.

For a bottom pairing d-man that would likely put up 35-45 points and 15+ goals, I think that is something that would be of great value to the Flames. As much as I like Sarich, I like what Babchuk brings more. If we could trade Sarich to resign Babchuk we would actually be saving money against the cap. And Babchuk's lack of footspeed to me really is a non issue, having guys like Bouw, Gio, Erixon and Brodie will more than makeup for one of Babchuk's few short comings.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2011, 08:52 PM
  #56
Lunatik*
 
Lunatik*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lethbridge
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Trust me I totally get what your saying, but to me Babchuk is not a typical bottom pairing defenceman. I agree that is where he will be playing most of his minutes 5 on 5 if he resigns in Calgary, but at the same time he also would be playing on our top PP unit. He is also capable of putting up a minimum of 10 PP goals which for a d-man is pretty dam good. And canon of a shot makes teams have to respect it, which opens alot of scoring chances for the Flames down low. Just his presence on the PP is an asset.

For a bottom pairing d-man that would likely put up 35-45 points and 15+ goals, I think that is something that would be of great value to the Flames. As much as I like Sarich, I like what Babchuk brings more. If we could trade Sarich to resign Babchuk we would actually be saving money against the cap. And Babchuk's lack of footspeed to me really is a non issue, having guys like Bouw, Gio, Erixon and Brodie will more than makeup for one of Babchuk's few short comings.
except Babchuk isn't on our top PP unit

and brodie and babchuk on the same blueline is a HUGE mistake... especially if they were paired together... that has disaster written all over it

Lunatik* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2011, 09:06 PM
  #57
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Formerly MVW
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,086
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
except Babchuk isn't on our top PP unit

and brodie and babchuk on the same blueline is a HUGE mistake... especially if they were paired together... that has disaster written all over it
He has got some minutes on the top unit, regardless the second half of the season he has been our best defensive weapon on the PP.

And I agree that a Brodie/Babchuk pairing is not in the best interests of the team. My answer to that is do not pair them together. Brodie would need to paired with someone that is really defensively responsible if he makes the team next year.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 01:18 AM
  #58
Lunatik*
 
Lunatik*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lethbridge
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
He has got some minutes on the top unit, regardless the second half of the season he has been our best defensive weapon on the PP.

And I agree that a Brodie/Babchuk pairing is not in the best interests of the team. My answer to that is do not pair them together. Brodie would need to paired with someone that is really defensively responsible if he makes the team next year.
how does that work exactly? you admit Babchuk should be used on the 3rd pairing with plenty of PP time... but then you say Brodie and Babchuk shouldn't be paired together... so are you suggesting using Brodie in the top 4 at ES? because that IMO would be worse than pairing him with Babchuk... quite simply you can not have not players on this roster at the same time... the perfect guy to bring Brodie along is Sarich, look what he did with Giordano, its no coincidence that the best hockey of Gio's career has been paired with Sarich

and about what you said before Babchuk is good for 10 PP Goals? really? the guy has a career high of 9 PP goals and only has 6 this season... Babchuk has regularly scored as much ES as on the PP during his career...

I like Babchuk as much as the next guy but with Langkow returning we simply can't afford a 3rd pairing defenseman making over 2.5 million, maybe not even over 2 million

Lunatik* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 09:01 AM
  #59
Body Checker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,229
vCash: 500
Re-sign Babchuk, trade Sarich

Body Checker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 10:12 AM
  #60
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Formerly MVW
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,086
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
how does that work exactly? you admit Babchuk should be used on the 3rd pairing with plenty of PP time... but then you say Brodie and Babchuk shouldn't be paired together... so are you suggesting using Brodie in the top 4 at ES? because that IMO would be worse than pairing him with Babchuk... quite simply you can not have not players on this roster at the same time... the perfect guy to bring Brodie along is Sarich, look what he did with Giordano, its no coincidence that the best hockey of Gio's career has been paired with Sarich

and about what you said before Babchuk is good for 10 PP Goals? really? the guy has a career high of 9 PP goals and only has 6 this season... Babchuk has regularly scored as much ES as on the PP during his career...

I like Babchuk as much as the next guy but with Langkow returning we simply can't afford a 3rd pairing defenseman making over 2.5 million, maybe not even over 2 million
And thats my point as well, Babchuk will be cheaper than Sarich who is also a 3rd pairing defenceman. Say Babchuk resigns for 2.75, then that is 850k less than what Sarich makes. It is ideal to have your bottom pairing d-man all under 2.5, which is why with Langkow coming back next year Sarich IMO should be traded. I also think because of the salary cap, both Brodie and Erixon will have to be on the team and possibly Nemisz as well. The Flames will probably have to roll with more young players next year for cap reasons.

I actually do agree that someone like Sarich is probably the ideal partner for Brodie. He would be able to really help him out and teach him alot of things. There is no one on the Heat right now that is as good as Sarich is defensively so it would be valuable to have them paired together. I just do not think the Flames can afford to do that.

And I like Sarich as much as the next guy, I just think the Flames are a better team with Babchuk over Sarich if it came down to it. Bouwmeester, Regehr, Gio and Erixon are all solid defenders, so I think the Flames would be fine with having Brodie and Babchuk in that mix. And with how the Flames are using Babchuk on the PP since he has come over here, I think he is a lock to get a minimum of 10 PP goals next year in a full season. Those are just my opinions, I could be totally wrong to.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 10:37 AM
  #61
The Gnome
Registered User
 
The Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
And thats my point as well, Babchuk will be cheaper than Sarich who is also a 3rd pairing defenceman. Say Babchuk resigns for 2.75, then that is 850k less than what Sarich makes. It is ideal to have your bottom pairing d-man all under 2.5, which is why with Langkow coming back next year Sarich IMO should be traded. I also think because of the salary cap, both Brodie and Erixon will have to be on the team and possibly Nemisz as well. The Flames will probably have to roll with more young players next year for cap reasons.

I actually do agree that someone like Sarich is probably the ideal partner for Brodie. He would be able to really help him out and teach him alot of things. There is no one on the Heat right now that is as good as Sarich is defensively so it would be valuable to have them paired together. I just do not think the Flames can afford to do that.

And I like Sarich as much as the next guy, I just think the Flames are a better team with Babchuk over Sarich if it came down to it. Bouwmeester, Regehr, Gio and Erixon are all solid defenders, so I think the Flames would be fine with having Brodie and Babchuk in that mix. And with how the Flames are using Babchuk on the PP since he has come over here, I think he is a lock to get a minimum of 10 PP goals next year in a full season. Those are just my opinions, I could be totally wrong to.
I find it hilariously horrible that all our UFA's are playing lights out.

Ideally:

Re-sign: Tanguay, Glencross, Morrison, Babchuk
Cut: Langkow, Hagman

The problem i have with your thoughts for next year:

1. If sarich goes then we lose a lot of physical presence from the backend
2. I really doubt Brodie is ready next year, based on his size.
3. Babchuk has no reason to be loyal to the flames, and could get more on the market.
4. Langkow is a huge ??? at this stage. He can really hurt this team moving forward unless he has a tremendous comeback and returns to the pre-jokinen form. I think a top priority should be trying to shop him if is 100% healthy. I'd rather rid this team of Stajan, but that isn't going to happen with his contract length and $$$.

The Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 10:56 AM
  #62
Lunatik*
 
Lunatik*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lethbridge
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
And thats my point as well, Babchuk will be cheaper than Sarich who is also a 3rd pairing defenceman. Say Babchuk resigns for 2.75, then that is 850k less than what Sarich makes. It is ideal to have your bottom pairing d-man all under 2.5, which is why with Langkow coming back next year Sarich IMO should be traded. I also think because of the salary cap, both Brodie and Erixon will have to be on the team and possibly Nemisz as well. The Flames will probably have to roll with more young players next year for cap reasons.

I actually do agree that someone like Sarich is probably the ideal partner for Brodie. He would be able to really help him out and teach him alot of things. There is no one on the Heat right now that is as good as Sarich is defensively so it would be valuable to have them paired together. I just do not think the Flames can afford to do that.

And I like Sarich as much as the next guy, I just think the Flames are a better team with Babchuk over Sarich if it came down to it. Bouwmeester, Regehr, Gio and Erixon are all solid defenders, so I think the Flames would be fine with having Brodie and Babchuk in that mix. And with how the Flames are using Babchuk on the PP since he has come over here, I think he is a lock to get a minimum of 10 PP goals next year in a full season. Those are just my opinions, I could be totally wrong to.
so you want to make it so Regehr is our only true physical presence on the blueline? sure maybe they will put up more points but they wouldn't be able to intimidate anyone... if we move Sarich and don't replace him with an intimidating physical defenseman we will be over matched by the big physical forwards in the western conference

Lunatik* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 11:00 AM
  #63
The Gnome
Registered User
 
The Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
so you want to make it so Regehr is our only true physical presence on the blueline? sure maybe they will put up more points but they wouldn't be able to intimidate anyone... if we move Sarich and don't replace him with an intimidating physical defenseman we will be over matched by the big physical forwards in the western conference
Yeah St.Louis says hello. If anything I want this team to get bigger upfront and on the backend.

The Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 12:34 PM
  #64
Flames 1st pick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,050
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
all our UFA's are playing lights out.

.
That's why you try not to give longer term no trade contract.

That's why Sutter is no longer GM...

Flames 1st pick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 02:31 PM
  #65
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Formerly MVW
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,086
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
so you want to make it so Regehr is our only true physical presence on the blueline? sure maybe they will put up more points but they wouldn't be able to intimidate anyone... if we move Sarich and don't replace him with an intimidating physical defenseman we will be over matched by the big physical forwards in the western conference
I would to like to go to a more mobile defence than the one we have now. I really, really hate to say this but Vancouver has a very a good defence and besides Alberts non of their defenceman are that big protypical physical defencman and they have alot of success as a core. Pittsburg is another example, their biggest guy is 6'2 and 219lbs and they have one of the top defences in the league. Chicago has Hammer and Seabrook both at 6'3, not hulking defenceman but both are fairly physical. Beyond that the guys on Chicago's backend are more mobile than physical.

I think you need to have a good mix in today's NHL. But if a defenceman is not quick then he becomes a liability because he cannot keep up with all the speed of the forwards in today's NHL. Babchuk's speed is an issue but positionally he is pretty good. I could stand dealing with his lack of footspeed because of everything else that he brings to the team. Either way the Flames will have to face a good problem in the offseason. Sarich and Babchuk are both quality guys so either way we will have good depth on the backend.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 06:35 PM
  #66
slappipappi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post

Cut: Langkow, Hagman

4. Langkow is a huge ??? at this stage. He can really hurt this team moving forward unless he has a tremendous comeback and returns to the pre-jokinen form. I think a top priority should be trying to shop him if is 100% healthy. I'd rather rid this team of Stajan, but that isn't going to happen with his contract length and $$$.
Langkow is going nowhere, with a NMC. No one will want him unless he first plays a bunch of games and proves himself fit. Hangman was available for free,and everyone passed.

Calagry proved with Kotalik they aren't that interested in simply dumping a lot of salary to the minors anyway,choosing to save half of Kooties salary even if it meant getting half his cap hit.

slappipappi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2011, 08:50 PM
  #67
Lunatik*
 
Lunatik*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lethbridge
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
I would to like to go to a more mobile defence than the one we have now. I really, really hate to say this but Vancouver has a very a good defence and besides Alberts non of their defenceman are that big protypical physical defencman and they have alot of success as a core. Pittsburg is another example, their biggest guy is 6'2 and 219lbs and they have one of the top defences in the league. Chicago has Hammer and Seabrook both at 6'3, not hulking defenceman but both are fairly physical. Beyond that the guys on Chicago's backend are more mobile than physical.

I think you need to have a good mix in today's NHL. But if a defenceman is not quick then he becomes a liability because he cannot keep up with all the speed of the forwards in today's NHL. Babchuk's speed is an issue but positionally he is pretty good. I could stand dealing with his lack of footspeed because of everything else that he brings to the team. Either way the Flames will have to face a good problem in the offseason. Sarich and Babchuk are both quality guys so either way we will have good depth on the backend.
we are better off replacing the offensive guy with a mobile defenseman than the physical one... sarich may not be overly mobile but he skates better than babchuk and he plays angles well like regehr... he is also excellent with your defnesemen... while sarich won't put up the points babchuk will he brings more in other areas... to me Sarich & Brodie together would be more of an asset than Babchuk + whoever we can sign to replace sarich... also remember feaster and sarich have ties, i don't think feaster is going to move him

Lunatik* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:04 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.