HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Is there ANY chance Sather steps down after this season?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-02-2011, 01:47 PM
  #51
Kel Varnsen
Below: Nash's Heart
 
Kel Varnsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
IMO, since torts has come on board this team has headed in the right direction. Can you say the same about sather?
How is that supposed to be an argument to get rid of Sather? Lets even entertain this fantasy idea that Torts had a sitdown with sather and sather found the hockey gods as a result of this. This Sather-Torts combo is working. Why break that up? Maybe Sather wasn't an important piece to that team, but there is a lot more downside to a possible new GM than upside as compared to Sather right now.

Kel Varnsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 01:49 PM
  #52
Puckface NYR*
R.I.P. Boogyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Long Island
Posts: 8,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
Up Front:
High end talent: Kreider, Gaborik
Possible high end talent: Stepan
Top six guys: Dubinsky, Grachev, Anisimov
Solid role players: Callahan (maybe he can be more than this, recently I'm starting to believe but he hasn't done it enough yet)

And that's just from in house, and not counting some guys who are looking promising like Christian Thomas.
Gaborik: oft injured winger who has not proven he is worth his contract for the amount offered. I love him, but he needs to do a lot more as a ranger to make that signing worthy.

Kreider: High end talent? Possibly. Still has not played any professional hockey. He has a lot of promise, but to count on him to score 40+ goals for us consistently is a reach.

Dubinsky - Good 2nd line winger

Stepan - One of my favorite players, looks like he could be a 1B type center, not going to be elite though imo. Still a great player to have.

Anisimov - Still young, another guy i love, but to pencil him in on the top 6 is foolish. Hes nothing more than an average 3rd line center right now.

Grachev - Top 6? Maybe. He has A LOT more to prove.

Christian Thomas - Good prospect, still many doubts he will even crack the NHL let alone be an elite player.

Puckface NYR* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 01:49 PM
  #53
TheRedViper
Registered User
 
TheRedViper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Niagara
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I would hope so, but the question is how much better? There seems to be this jaded view that the Rangers can develop a ton of 60-70 point homegrown players and be competitive for years to come. It doesnt work like that, and the post-lockout NHL doesnt work like that.

Teams need to have ELITE players, especially up front. Do you see any players that you can definitively say will be on that elite level without the wing and prayer/they're young BS?

Because the cold hard truth is that the post-lockout competitive teams have had young players dominating games in their early 20's. Why? Because they are elite hockey players.
We sign Richards in the offseason, we have 2 Elite forwards.

Those teams with the 2 young elite players also get to draft 1-2-3 overall. Anytime that is suggested people have a **** fit about not tanking

TheRedViper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 01:49 PM
  #54
ThisYearsModel
Registered User
 
ThisYearsModel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 6,888
vCash: 500
Sather's tenure has been a failure. He is not going to quit though, why would he? He makes big bucks without any accountability from the owner. If his record to date has not gotten him canned, he has a job for life so long as he does not harass any female employees at the Garden. If not for that, Isiah would still be there.

ThisYearsModel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 01:50 PM
  #55
TheRedViper
Registered User
 
TheRedViper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Niagara
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
Gaborik: oft injured winger who has not proven he is worth his contract for the amount offered. I love him, but he needs to do a lot more as a ranger to make that signing worthy.

Kreider: High end talent? Possibly. Still has not played any professional hockey. He has a lot of promise, but to count on him to score 40+ goals for us consistently is a reach.

Dubinsky - Good 2nd line winger

Stepan - One of my favorite players, looks like he could be a 1B type center, not going to be elite though imo. Still a great player to have.

Anisimov - Still young, another guy i love, but to pencil him in on the top 6 is foolish. Hes nothing more than an average 3rd line center right now.

Grachev - Top 6? Maybe. He has A LOT more to prove.

Christian Thomas - Good prospect, still many doubts he will even crack the NHL let alone be an elite player.
Many doubts about Thomas because?

TheRedViper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 01:50 PM
  #56
Kel Varnsen
Below: Nash's Heart
 
Kel Varnsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StaalWars View Post
Did you just become a fan in 2010 or are you purposely choosing to ignore the totality of Sather's awful tenure here?
I wanted him fired way back when too. However, I didn't want him fired because his name was Glen Sather or because I don't like his press policy or something stupid like that. I wanted him fired because he wouldn't commit to building from within. If he'll do what I want in that regard I want him here.

Kel Varnsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 01:51 PM
  #57
Puckface NYR*
R.I.P. Boogyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Long Island
Posts: 8,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
How is that supposed to be an argument to get rid of Sather? Lets even entertain this fantasy idea that Torts had a sitdown with sather and sather found the hockey gods as a result of this. This Sather-Torts combo is working. Why break that up? Maybe Sather wasn't an important piece to that team, but there is a lot more downside to a possible new GM than upside as compared to Sather right now.
Your argument was to look at the season at hand. In that case, were not making the playoffs so can torts.

I'm looking at the history sather has. He has been absolutely terrible as the Rangers GM. He continues to give out bad contracts (Boogaard and Kotalik) however they don't look as bad because we have limited capspace so he can't afford the MAJOR mistakes anymore.

If we miss out on Brad Richards I am extremely afraid of what will happen to this team.

Puckface NYR* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 01:51 PM
  #58
Shadowtron
Registered User
 
Shadowtron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,509
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
You're right. If we don't win the cup this year we should fire Sather. But wait, Torts is also a failure then. Fire him. And the players, lets get rid of as many of these losers as we can. Every year we can do this. We'll be known as the team that doesn't accept anything less than a championship. We'll get up on the highest stage and scream for everyone to hear that WE ARE THE RANGERS! AND WE DON'T ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY! WE DEMAND A COMMITMENT TO EXCELLENCE! (Very similarly to Al Davis and his Oakland Raiders. Finally have a respectable year, not good enough. Bye Bye Tom Cable.)
So the options are either you like him or you're some ranting lunatic demand trades and firings? Hmm...interesting. I haven't requested any of the things you've written above, but at least now we get a clearer picture of the sticking point in all this back and forth.

Shadowtron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 01:53 PM
  #59
Puckface NYR*
R.I.P. Boogyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Long Island
Posts: 8,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
Many doubts about Thomas because?
He's having a great season, but a lot of guys put up those kinds of numbers in the same league and don't become great nhl players.

He's also extremely small. Not saying i dont think he will make it, but im not sold on him being an impact player in the NHL.

People are putting him on a pedestal the same way they did with grachev.

Puckface NYR* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 01:57 PM
  #60
TheRedViper
Registered User
 
TheRedViper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Niagara
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
He's having a great season, but a lot of guys put up those kinds of numbers in the same league and don't become great nhl players.

He's also extremely small. Not saying i dont think he will make it, but im not sold on him being an impact player in the NHL.

People are putting him on a pedestal the same way they did with grachev.
Okay so, you're doubting Thomas because of OTHER players?
Extremely small is an exaggeration.
Difference between Grachev and Thomas is Grachev physically dominated juniors, whereas the smaller Thomas has more points, 7 more goals, less games played, and plays on a weaker team skill wise than Grachev had.

TheRedViper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 02:09 PM
  #61
WhipNash27
Quattro!!
 
WhipNash27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 15,483
vCash: 500
Just examine the top teams in league shall we?
Philadelphia - 2 top 5 picks in the past 10 years
Tampa Bay - 3 top 5 picks
Boston - 2 top 5 picks
Pittsburgh - 5 top 5 picks
Washington - 3 top 5 picks

Vancouver - 0 top 5 picks (two franchise players are #2 & #3 picks in 1999)
Detroit - 0 top 5 picks
San Jose - 0 top 5 picks
Phoenix - 2 top 5 picks
Calgary - 0 top 5 picks
Chicago (thrown in due to defending champs) - 3 top 5 picks

Calgary & San Jose had a few top 10 picks.

Detroit is the exception to the rule. The only team in the group without any top 5 or top 10 picks.

Rangers - 0 top 5 picks. Only top 5 pick in their history was Pavel Brendl (bust).

Top 10 in the past 10 years?
Dan Blackburn, goalie, injuries ended career.
Al Montoya, goalie, bust
Dylan McIlrath, defense, 2010 pick

The fact is that in today's NHL most good teams build through high draft picks. The Rangers were mediocre enough for years that they didn't have that luxury.

WhipNash27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 02:12 PM
  #62
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,778
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
Singing, does this "younger guy" exist anywhere?
I don't know other team's front offices well enough these days. I'm sure guys can give you names. Bluenote seems to know this stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
Like Neil Smith circa 1989.
If he has the success that Smith did, that would be great.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 02:13 PM
  #63
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,778
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
That's what this team will be doing a whole lot of if we stay on this current trajectory.
When?

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 02:19 PM
  #64
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
Who do you guys suggest replaces Slats?
Gordie Clark. Jeff Gorton takes Clark's job, Messier takes Gorton's job and starts at the bottom, as he should. Let Sather stay on as President. Just keep him out of personnel decisions.

GAGLine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 02:29 PM
  #65
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,633
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't know other team's front offices well enough these days. I'm sure guys can give you names. Bluenote seems to know this stuff.




If he has the success that Smith did, that would be great.
There are a ton of up and coming names in hockey we go through every offseason, there used to be a good writeup but its long buried.

But again, most of our fans and the posters here even don't even know Jeff Gorton, Mike Barnett or any of the personnel guys that play huge parts in our on prganization, I don't expect people to know the possible Sather replacements working in other organizations.

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 02:35 PM
  #66
frankthefrowner
Registered User
 
frankthefrowner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,652
vCash: 500
I dont love Glen by any stretch. But with James Dolan in charge the devil you know is far better thanthe devil you dont. We have no idea who he would pick as GM of this franchise. Most likley it would be an inexperienced Mark Messier.

Ill be honest Mark Messier scares the crap out of me. After the moves they made at the request of Mark in the mid 90's which started setting this team back from cup contender to missing the playoffs for 8 straight years and the fact that he would probably be MORE bullet proof than Glen, i fear for this franchise if mess gets a hold of it.

frankthefrowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 02:36 PM
  #67
CostaTheCrazyGreek
Registered User
 
CostaTheCrazyGreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Selden, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 78
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to CostaTheCrazyGreek Send a message via Yahoo to CostaTheCrazyGreek
I'll make it short and sweet, if the Rangers win one Cup, just one, under Sather and Dolan, I'll give them both a rusty trombone.


Last edited by CostaTheCrazyGreek: 03-02-2011 at 04:28 PM.
CostaTheCrazyGreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 02:42 PM
  #68
Mr Atoz*
I hid the Atavachron
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 2,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
I am probably one of the older posters who date back to Craig Patrick. If anything, this has been Sather's best year. I think the "Fire Sather" thing is old. He isn't the problem this year. He didn't get Richards? Probably because Nieuwendyk was asking for a boatload? Has Sather crippled us with free agent signings? Absolutely.
The problem isn't so much that Sather didn't get Richards. The problem is the Rangers desperately need him or someone like him.

Sather has been here 11 years and the only true top player that he has to show for it is Lunqvist, and that was partially luck.

Love Callahan but he's not scoring 50 goals a year. The one thing that you can say for these Rangers is they try harder than many in the past. But the Rangers have as unlimited resources as any team in the NHL and it translates into nothing. There's no reason that they can't pay the best scouts, hire the best people, hire the best specialty coaches, and come out with at least some of the best players. There's more to trading than being a good GM. Other teams miss some great draft picks. We seem to miss them all.

Mr Atoz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 02:47 PM
  #69
bobbop
Henrik's Pop
 
bobbop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Suburban Phoenix
Country: United States
Posts: 4,818
vCash: 500
If Sather steps anywhere it will be up to full time President and advisor to head of hockey operations. And Messier may or may not be the chosen one. I'm in the Gordie Clark camp but Gordie may be content living in Canada and scouting players.

bobbop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 03:36 PM
  #70
mrjimmyg89
'13-'14 East Champs
 
mrjimmyg89's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,834
vCash: 500
Has Sather's contracts given out hamstrung us? Absolutely. Now, we have a lot of younger players playing big roles on a team because we have no cap room to add bigger pieces, and that is part of the problem. Boogaard at 1.6, Drury at 7.5, and Redden at 6.5 are big burdens. If Drury decides to hang 'em up at the end of this season ala Markus Naslund, and with the reports that Redden could walk away from his deal to pursue another NHL contract, we'll be in good shape to relocate money that we gain to:

1) Our RFAs (Dubi and Cally mainly)
2) Richards or Offer Sheeting Parise (Stamkos is a far fetched dream)
3) Depth for this team
4) Saving it for the right time (Big trade in season for high salary w/ high end talent)

#1 is going to happen regardless of what happens with Redden or Drury. #2 is going to happen as well (Richards no matter if both stay, Parise if one of them leaves). #3 is going to be hard to do unless both go, as well as #4.

Is Sather doing a better job then what he was before. I think most would agree and say yes. Is he doing what he is doing because he is strapped of cash from the cap? That's the big question. Some people don't trust Sather with cap room, and it's hard to argue against that with his albatross contracts we have currently. I'd say this time around he has the right idea on who to get. Richards is no doubt a #1 center. He isn't Scott Gomez, Chris Drury, or Wade Redden (I don't believe Gaborik is an albatross contract, even though he gets hurt, he has value that can get us something great in return). He is a bonafide star in the league, doing it with 2 separate organizations while putting up 80-90 points, and winning a Stanley Cup under Torts.

Now, is Sather only targeting Richards cause of the relationship between Richards and Torts? Another big question. If Richards re-ups in Dallas or goes somewhere else (Maybe Tampa), we'll see if Sather has the cap space and does something dumb with it again.

And to answer the question asked by the OP, Sather will not step down going into this season. I believe Sather has to clean up his mess before stepping down. I know people believe Dolan has nothing to do with the actual product on the ice for the Rangers, but he definitely has influence on Sather. My guess is Dolan told him he has to clean up the Rangers ala Donnie Walsh cleaning up the Knicks and now having Carmelo and Amar'e on the roster. You don't believe us playing young players big minutes and showing them off to the league isn't the same thing the Knicks did with their young players (Galinari, Chandler, even Mozgov)? I think Dolan has a lot more to do with this team then people lead on to. Does he trust Sather to run his organization? Sure, but is he dumb enough not to advise him on moves with his impending money coming in on the other end? No way does he not say anything to him.

If there is no Redden or Drury on the books for the Rangers this next season, be prepared for a big trade with young players on this team for (a) superstar(s), regardless of who people believe is untouchable. Nobody would have though the Knicks would have made the offer they did for Carmelo, but after seeing that, nothing would shock me at this point. Everything comes from Dolan, and don't forget that.

mrjimmyg89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 03:44 PM
  #71
drewcon40
Registered User
 
drewcon40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: born LI, live SI
Posts: 843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthefrowner View Post
I dont love Glen by any stretch. But with James Dolan in charge the devil you know is far better thanthe devil you dont. We have no idea who he would pick as GM of this franchise. Most likley it would be an inexperienced Mark Messier.

Ill be honest Mark Messier scares the crap out of me. After the moves they made at the request of Mark in the mid 90's which started setting this team back from cup contender to missing the playoffs for 8 straight years and the fact that he would probably be MORE bullet proof than Glen, i fear for this franchise if mess gets a hold of it.
Yes, my point isn't Sather is a great GM. I just do not have any confidence in Dolan oversseing such an important decision.

Singing - on Neil Smith - I totally agree. That was under different ownership. What I really never stated earlier is I fear who this ownership deems fit to be Slats' replacement.

Bluenote mentioned some candidates. However, they are under the Sather regime. Wouldn't they just carry out the plan put forth by Sather? (Gorton, Schoenfeld, Barnett, Clark, et all)

drewcon40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 03:54 PM
  #72
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,778
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
Bluenote mentioned some candidates. However, they are under the Sather regime. Wouldn't they just carry out the plan put forth by Sather? (Gorton, Schoenfeld, Barnett, Clark, et all)
That's why part of my criteria was not from the Oilers or Rangers orgs.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 04:19 PM
  #73
drewcon40
Registered User
 
drewcon40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: born LI, live SI
Posts: 843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's why part of my criteria was not from the Oilers or Rangers orgs.
SingnB - we are in agreement on a potential hire (albeit hypothetical). I, too, would be happy replicating those days.

drewcon40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 06:02 PM
  #74
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I would hope so, but the question is how much better? There seems to be this jaded view that the Rangers can develop a ton of 50-60 point homegrown players and be competitive for years to come. It doesnt work like that, and the post-lockout NHL doesnt work like that.

Teams need to have ELITE players, especially up front. Do you see any players that you can definitively say will be on that elite level without the wing and prayer/they're young BS?

Because the cold hard truth is that the post-lockout competitive teams have had young players dominating games in their early 20's. Why? Because they are elite hockey players.

They drafted and developed an elite goaltender and defenseman. Lundqvist and Staal.

Dubinsky and Stepan are going to be consistent 50+ point players.

Callahan and Anisimov 40+

Girardi, McDonagh, and Sauer are legit.

Del Zotto will learn, and his 30+ point rookie season is not a fluke. He needs to become more consistent, which is not unheard of for a 20 year old second year Pro defenseman.

Gaborik is supposed to be an elite goal scorer.

If they sign Richards, great, if not, then they continue until an elite center is available either via draft or free agency.

You constantly put down these players the Rangers have been developing and they're in the middle of a playoff race, and have been doing it without Gaborik, Drury, and Rozsival (traded for Wolski).

If the Rangers acquire their "elite" player via free agency or draft, what's the difference? It doesn't change the fact that because of the young guys who are very good players, the Rangers are being set up for years of success.

Every team in the modern era that wins the Cup or gets to the Finals acquires some elite players externally. Hossa, Campbell, Pronger...

The way you draft a Stamkos, Crosby, Ovechkin, Toews is by literally being the worst team in the league and winning the lottery. Should the Rangers defile themselves by being the worst team in the league?

You can say "smart drafting" fine, then where did Staal, Lundqvist, Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Stepan, and Sauer come from? They weren't top five or top ten picks. They were smart picks.

Girardi was an undrafted free agent.

Zuccarello was an undrafted free agent.

Boyle and McDonagh are former first round picks we acquired via trade.

Everyone wants to complain excessively about the bad moves that were made over the years, and put down anyone who acknowledges the good moves that were made.

It doesn't matter what happened in the past with bad free agent contracts. The future is what matters. And yes, Sather had to cover some of them up by getting rid of his mistakes, but he FIXED those mistakes. You can't be that spoiled to have flawless decisions made all the time.

You could look at the awful Gomez contract like this, we got McDonagh BECAUSE of the awful contract. If that contract was never signed, we never make that trade and we have another gaping hole where McDonagh is now.

Redden may walk. Either way, his cap hit will only effect us during the summer.

Drury may retire, if not, we can buy him out. The contract was signed over 4 years ago.

Rozsival was dealt for Wolski.

Boogaard can be buried in Hartford.

I'm not the biggest Sather fan, and I've gotten on him for things, including the Boogaard deal, but for all the bad he's done, he and the Rangers have also done a lot of good.

Some chose to acknowledge only the bad. Want to go through life like that, go ahead.

As for me, I'm looking forward to watching these young players develop and progress toward getting the Rangers back to the Finals in the future.

The sky is not falling.

The Rangers have one of the youngest teams in the league. One of if not the youngest defense corp including two rookies, and two second year players (Del Zotto was on the roster majority of the season).

And they're in the playoff race.

What do you want???

The process is not going to be instant. They need to develop and progress toward the goal, which is winning the Cup.

And for the record, I believe Richards will be a Ranger if he isn't satisfied with the ownership situation in Dallas.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2011, 06:26 PM
  #75
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,389
vCash: 500
zero

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:16 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.