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Old
04-14-2011, 11:16 PM
  #376
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I would like a 5 year deal worth 6.5, but i dont see that happening. Richards wants 7 and probably 7 mill a year, and WE BETTER NOT GIVE HIM THAT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. Yea we need a top line C and he would be great, but nobody should get 7 year contracts over the age of 30, BOTTOM LINE.

Regardless, I think Richards would want to play under Torts again and loves NY, plays golf on L.I. a lot and would happily settle in the area. This team is on the UP bigtime, and well its MSG, who doesnt want to wear the broadway blue.

I know James Van Riemsdyk does, grew up life long nyr fan in jersey....he will be here when his contract is up.

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04-14-2011, 11:28 PM
  #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR BLUE18 View Post
I would like a 5 year deal worth 6.5, but i dont see that happening. Richards wants 7 and probably 7 mill a year, and WE BETTER NOT GIVE HIM THAT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. Yea we need a top line C and he would be great, but nobody should get 7 year contracts over the age of 30, BOTTOM LINE.

Regardless, I think Richards would want to play under Torts again and loves NY, plays golf on L.I. a lot and would happily settle in the area. This team is on the UP bigtime, and well its MSG, who doesnt want to wear the broadway blue.

I know James Van Riemsdyk does, grew up life long nyr fan in jersey....he will be here when his contract is up.
That would be Awesome. He's slowly turning his game around. Making much more happen with the puck of late.

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04-15-2011, 12:37 AM
  #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR BLUE18 View Post
I would like a 5 year deal worth 6.5, but i dont see that happening. Richards wants 7 and probably 7 mill a year, and WE BETTER NOT GIVE HIM THAT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. Yea we need a top line C and he would be great, but nobody should get 7 year contracts over the age of 30, BOTTOM LINE.
Yes, let's not give the only top line center to come to UFA in years a big contract.

If we sign Richards, we win the Cup within the next 5 years. Book it.

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Old
04-15-2011, 02:26 AM
  #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Yes, let's not give the only top line center to come to UFA in years a big contract.

If we sign Richards, we win the Cup within the next 5 years. Book it.
Absolutely. Overpaying by $500k or $1 million isn't a big deal.

Richards wants 7.5? Fine. Overpay by $1 million per and our first line center and power play problems are solved. And at what cost? The price of Erik Christensen? Please. Give Richards whatever he asks, he's worth it.

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04-15-2011, 05:24 AM
  #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
The point of Richards is bringing him in to play with Gabby right? I mean if Gabby is injured Richards doesn't alone make this team a conference favorite.

And Richards may not have a history of concussions, but I've done a pretty significant amount of research into Judo concussions, and one concussion is a "history" when it's anything close to moderate. And moderate is exactly what he appeared to have. Headache and a little nausea, but no dizziness or sensitivity to light.

15m and 5 or 6 years between 2 guys decides the NYR fate over the next decade and beyond. Gaborik and Richards are not the combo in my opinion
Actually the point isn't so much to play Brad with Gabby, as it is to inject a legit #1 center in the lineup to play with any of our wingers.

I get the concept of continuing to build from within, but building from within in perpituity is useless if you do not add significant talent to that core you are building and shoot for higher and loftier goals of winning.

Richards takes the pressure off Anisimov and Stepan to be something they are not (yet)

If either Ani and Step develope into #1 centers, then shifting Richards to wing is not a bad thing.

There's no downside to brining in Richards.

Guys like Drury and Avery and McCabe come off the books taking their hefty salaries with them and with the kids we have in the pipeline feeding the team, the salary structure will not be crippled.

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Old
04-15-2011, 05:28 AM
  #381
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The way some people ***** about contracts, you'd think they were personally paying the salary.

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Old
04-15-2011, 06:24 AM
  #382
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$7.5M?The Rangers can't afford to pay that unless they clear the decks of Drury,Christensen and Avery and don't take back much money or no money at all. They would still need to replace those players and fill out the roster. No bonus cushion next season(Zuccarello is going to find himself with the Whale next season. $1.75M cap hit. For just shootouts?). Callahan,Dubinsky,Boyle,AA and Sauer cost a combined $6M this season. Callahan and Dubinsky are each going to get $4M. You're looking at $13-14M to re-sign those 5 players. Callahan,Dubinsky,Boyle and Sauer are arbitration eligible. AA is a group II with no arb rights but he's looking close to $2M per. Dubinsky got 2 years/$3.7M for his second contract. AA had a 44 point year.

If Richards wants to play for a team with solid ownership and a high payroll,he will have to take less. You want to play on a team with other good players,take less. $6.5M is less? This is not baseball and these are not the Yankees.

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04-15-2011, 06:38 AM
  #383
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As far as the Rangers are concerned, sources close to the team said tonight that there is some feeling the Rangers would want Richards not just for a stretch run this season, but to have the exclusive negotiating window before July 1 to try and sign him to a long-term contract.

Reports around the league have indicated that the bidding for Richards on July 1 could get crazy, seeing as how he's the top center available. But it doesn't appear as though the Rangers, who almost always get their man on day one of free agency, will go nuts for Richards should he reach the open market.
http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo...ed:i=1.2717805

Try and convince Richards to take less.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.000m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Wojtek Wolski ($3.800m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.850m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.000m)
Sean Avery ($1.937m) / Brian Boyle ($1.750m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)
/ Chris Drury ($7.050m) / Mats Zuccarello-Aasen ($1.750m)
/ Erik Christensen ($0.925m) / Derek Boogaard ($1.625m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Mike Sauer ($1.500m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.875m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $55,712,500; BONUSES: $1,275,000
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $6,687,500

Still need 3 more D. Doesn't include Fedotenko and Prospal if the Rangers want to re-sign one or both of those players.

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Old
04-15-2011, 06:41 AM
  #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
Absolutely. Overpaying by $500k or $1 million isn't a big deal.

Richards wants 7.5? Fine. Overpay by $1 million per and our first line center and power play problems are solved. And at what cost? The price of Erik Christensen? Please. Give Richards whatever he asks, he's worth it.
its a big deal when its 500k or a mil we dont have.

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Old
04-15-2011, 06:47 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Rangerdanger20 View Post
its a big deal when its 500k or a mil we dont have.
It's not like we can't easily make the space. Buy out Drury, waive Christensen/Avery (which I'm not advocating), Boogaard may retire, let Gilroy/Frolov/Prospal/Fedotenko go etc..

If 500k is the difference between us getting Brad Richards or not I will flip out.

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04-15-2011, 07:16 AM
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
It's not like we can't easily make the space. Buy out Drury, waive Christensen/Avery (which I'm not advocating), Boogaard may retire, let Gilroy/Frolov/Prospal/Fedotenko go etc..

If 500k is the difference between us getting Brad Richards or not I will flip out.
You sound like the Debbie fans who said the Debbies would clear the cap space after signing Kovalchuk. It's easy. Don't worry about Lou and his cap.

Those players(Christensen,Avery,Boogaard) would count on the summer cap. The Rangers can't waive them until 12 days before the start of the season and they don't come off the cap until the day before next season begins.

Richards has a bad month and people will be calling for Sather's head.

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04-15-2011, 07:25 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
The way some people ***** about contracts, you'd think they were personally paying the salary.
Well, if they attend home games, they kind of are.

Richards has some question marks. But he'll likely be the only center of his caliber to hit UFA for a very, very long time.

Look at Marleau, Thornton, just about every other new center.

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04-15-2011, 07:28 AM
  #388
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You also have to assume the cap will go up... So let's hope for that too

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Old
04-15-2011, 07:32 AM
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo...ed:i=1.2717805

Try and convince Richards to take less.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.000m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Wojtek Wolski ($3.800m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.850m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.000m)
Sean Avery ($1.937m) / Brian Boyle ($1.750m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)
/ Chris Drury ($7.050m) / Mats Zuccarello-Aasen ($1.750m)
/ Erik Christensen ($0.925m) / Derek Boogaard ($1.625m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Mike Sauer ($1.500m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.875m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $55,712,500; BONUSES: $1,275,000
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $6,687,500

Still need 3 more D. Doesn't include Fedotenko and Prospal if the Rangers want to re-sign one or both of those players.
I'm going to assume the following players and their contracts are not with the Rangers.

Boogaard - Retires
Avery - just do not see him on the Rangers going forward.
Drury - via buyout or trade, depending on how he looks this PO's. Has a good showing, he could be traded.
Christensen - Not a ton of money, but if there's a casualty of the cap, he is it.
Prospal - unless he takes a pay cut.

Alot of assumptions on my part I know, but the cap forces tough decisions on teams and in a capped environment the above is very plausible

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04-15-2011, 07:37 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Yes, let's not give the only top line center to come to UFA in years a big contract.

If we sign Richards, we win the Cup within the next 5 years. Book it.

I might be inclined to take that bet.


I'm also curious about a couple of things:
1.) Do you think Richards, if signed, will score at or near a PPG pace throughout the duration of a 5/6 year deal? (he would be 36/37 at the end of the deal)

2.) Can you name the last team to win the Cup with a #1 Center they signed through free agency?

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04-15-2011, 07:38 AM
  #391
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An Avery burial is only worth it if Redden terminates his contract during the summer, or we bring in around 2+ mil worth of salary on true rookies (Vtank and Hagelin might work)

I'm not too worried. If the Rangers want Richards and he becomes available, they will make a bid. And I'm pretty sure we have means of making him fit without sacrificing core players.

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04-15-2011, 07:42 AM
  #392
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Richards changes the entire complexion of this team. Whatever line he's on doesn't have to rely on grinding offense that's created along the boards and behind the net. That's perfect for Gaborik and it can also help whoever else is on his line.

I just don't see how he's not a perfect fit besides his age.

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04-15-2011, 07:42 AM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Dantes19 View Post
I might be inclined to take that bet.


I'm also curious about a couple of things:
1.) Do you think Richards, if signed, will score at or near a PPG pace throughout the duration of a 5/6 year deal? (he would be 36/37 at the end of the deal)

2.) Can you name the last team to win the Cup with a #1 Center they signed through free agency?
Can you name how many #1 centers have been available through free agency? Not many -- making the question pointless.

Players like Richards do not hit UFA. When they do, you make it work.

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04-15-2011, 07:47 AM
  #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantes19 View Post
I might be inclined to take that bet.


I'm also curious about a couple of things:
1.) Do you think Richards, if signed, will score at or near a PPG pace throughout the duration of a 5/6 year deal? (he would be 36/37 at the end of the deal)

2.) Can you name the last team to win the Cup with a #1 Center they signed through free agency?

No, but one: because that's rare.

Joe Thornton, albeit not from UFA in San Jose, has helped make them contenders though.

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04-15-2011, 07:49 AM
  #395
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Can you name how many #1 centers have been available through free agency? Not many -- making the question pointless.

Players like Richards do not hit UFA. When they do, you make it work.

The infrequency you speak of might be a explanatory factor regarding the answer, but it doesn't make the question pointless. You're attaching an arbitrary label.


What about my first question: do you think Richards will score at a PPG pace throughout the entirety of a 5 or 6 year deal? He'll be 31 at the start of the deal and 36/37 at the end of it.


Last edited by Dantes19: 04-15-2011 at 07:56 AM.
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Old
04-15-2011, 08:22 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
No, but one: because that's rare.

Joe Thornton, albeit not from UFA in San Jose, has helped make them contenders though.
And Joe Thornton was part of one of the most lopsided post-lockout trades. It's not like THornton-type situations occur very often. How often does a superstar player demand to be traded before his contract is about to end? Thornton? Heatley? Pronger? Who else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantes19 View Post
What about my first question: do you think Richards will score at a PPG pace throughout the entirety of a 5 or 6 year deal? He'll be 31 at the start of the deal and 36/37 at the end of it.
And what if he can't? How does that make signing him a bad decision? You can afford to overpay one or even two players on your team for a time as long as your team is managed properly and the player(s) in question are still serviceable, if even overpaid. If a top six offensive player is overpaid by 1 or 2 million for a season or two, that's not the end of the world. The problem becomes if a 4th liner is overpaid by a million or two (or more, like Redden and Drury).

No, Richards may not be an elite center at 36 (although there is no reason to think he won't be at 32, 33, 34, and maybe even 35), but he's not going to be chopped liver. He'll still score at least 70 points.

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04-15-2011, 08:58 AM
  #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo...ed:i=1.2717805

Try and convince Richards to take less.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.000m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Wojtek Wolski ($3.800m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.850m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.000m)
Sean Avery ($1.937m) / Brian Boyle ($1.750m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)
/ Chris Drury ($7.050m) / Mats Zuccarello-Aasen ($1.750m)
/ Erik Christensen ($0.925m) / Derek Boogaard ($1.625m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Mike Sauer ($1.500m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.875m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $55,712,500; BONUSES: $1,275,000
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $6,687,500

Still need 3 more D. Doesn't include Fedotenko and Prospal if the Rangers want to re-sign one or both of those players.
getting rid of drury's cap hit is obviously an absolute must if you want to sign richards and still keep all the rfas. wouldn't be surprised if boogaard retires, possible that avery is moved. i agree with you that mza makes alot to be a shootout specialist. and EC isn't needed after you sign richards...plus i think slats will try extremely hard to unload wolski who isn't even close to worth the $$ he makes.

between those 6 guys you are looking at $17 mil added to the $6.7 mil you have left over and its almost $24 mil. it would leave us with several holes to fill but ideally if you can unload that $$ it would give you a chance to reallocate that cap space better so you are paying the big $$ to the top line players not the 4th liners

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04-15-2011, 09:09 AM
  #398
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And what if he can't? How does that make signing him a bad decision? You can afford to overpay one or even two players on your team for a time as long as your team is managed properly and the player(s) in question are still serviceable, if even overpaid. If a top six offensive player is overpaid by 1 or 2 million for a season or two, that's not the end of the world. The problem becomes if a 4th liner is overpaid by a million or two (or more, like Redden and Drury).

No, Richards may not be an elite center at 36 (although there is no reason to think he won't be at 32, 33, 34, and maybe even 35), but he's not going to be chopped liver. He'll still score at least 70 points.
I think it's important to weigh the impact of the length and terms of the contract he'll want before you sign him. I'm not saying that signing him would necessarily be a bad decision; I'm saying you've got to think about the 4th, 5th, and 6th years of that deal as well.

I understand what you're saying about affording to overpay for a top line player, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing. But before the team rushes in to another large FA signing, it's important to realize that this signing will mean that the Rangers have about $21M per season invested in 3 players (Lundquist, Gaborik, Richards). Again, I'm not saying it's necessarily a terrible thing, but it's a factor you have to consider. It's not as simple as just saying "guys like this rarely come on the market, sign him for what he wants".

I know that this season we had about $21M tied into Henrik, Gaborik, and Drury, and we survived salary cap-wise. We've also had the luxury of a lot of young players on relatively cheap deals. That's going to change soon. You have to consider the long term economic situation of the team (which I"m sure management will do).

My point is that I don't think it's as clear-cut a decision as a lot of you think. There are things about signing him I would love (finally, a #1C & PP guy) and things about singing him that make me hesitate (injury situation, big money+long term contract, ability to maintain current product rate throughout contract). I've also not said that his production will necessarily drop off drastically; but if you're signing a 31 year old guy to a 6 year deal, you've got to be realistic and consider the fact the years of the contract are often those (generally) in which a player's production begins to decline.

Again, I'm not saying Richards is a terrible idea. I'm saying that I think there's some benefit to giving the situation a more thorough analysis before committing to such a long term contract.

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04-15-2011, 09:17 AM
  #399
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I think it's important to weigh the impact of the length and terms of the contract he'll want before you sign him. I'm not saying that signing him would be a terrible decision; I'm saying you've got to think about the 4th, 5th, and 6th years of that deal as well.

I understand what you're saying about affording to overpay for a top line player, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing. But before the team rushes in to another large FA signing, it's important to realize that this signing will mean that the Rangers have about $21M per season invested in 3 players (Lundquist, Gaborik, Richards). Again, I'm not saying it's necessarily a terrible thing, but it's a factor you have to consider. It's not as simple as just saying "guys like this rarely come on the market, sign him for what he wants".

I know that this season we had about $21M tied into Henrik, Gaborik, and Drury, and we survived salary cap-wise. We've also had the luxury of a lot of young players on relatively cheap deals. That's going to change soon. You have to consider the long term economic situation of the team (which I"m sure management will do).

My point is that I don't think it's as clear-cut a decision as a lot of you think. There are things about signing him I would love (finally, a #1C & PP guy) and things about singing him that make me hesitate (injury situation, big money+long term contract, ability to maintain current product rate throughout contract). I've also not said that his production will necessarily drop off drastically; but if you're signing a 31 year old guy to a 6 year deal, you've got to be realistic and consider the fact the years of the contract are often those (generally) in which a player's production begins to decline.

Again, I'm not saying Richards is a terrible idea. I'm saying that I think there's some benefit to giving the situation a more thorough analysis before committing to such a long term contract.
That's fair enough. What exactly would that more thorough analysis entail, though? And where does that analysis lead you? As far as our message board goes, I'm not sure how much more analysis we're going to get. You'd like to think the people making the decisions are going to conduct a thorough debate about it, but then again, these are the same people that thought signing Redden, Gomez, Drury, Kotalik, Boogaard, Gaborik, and Brashear were good ideas.

The bottom line comes down to this: If not Richards, then what? I don't think that question can be answered, which is exactly why, despite the reservations, this is the type of risk (unlike the aforementioned signings) that is worth taking. The time for this team to take the next step is now, but to do that, you have to fill a gaping hole. There doesn't seem to be any way to do that aside from an acquisition of Richards.

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04-15-2011, 09:42 AM
  #400
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Originally Posted by Dantes19 View Post
I might be inclined to take that bet.


I'm also curious about a couple of things:
1.) Do you think Richards, if signed, will score at or near a PPG pace throughout the duration of a 5/6 year deal? (he would be 36/37 at the end of the deal)

2.) Can you name the last team to win the Cup with a #1 Center they signed through free agency?
Talk about irrelevant! Can you name the last team that won the cup with a goalie of Lundqvist's caliber? Does that mean we should get rid of Lundqvist and look for a mediocre goalie so we can win the cup!?

Zuccarello Awesome* is offline  
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