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ATTN: Pierre Gauthier - Call up Nigel Dawes!

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Old
03-04-2011, 02:39 AM
  #101
JLP
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
It is in the NHL. The average NHL height is something like 6'1, so that would be a fair bit under average.
Yeah I meant he's not small, for a Hab...

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03-04-2011, 08:09 AM
  #102
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Yes let's bury DD in the minors when he's at the peak of his development, appears to possibly be a future 50+ point guy for us even despite his size, and bring up a guy whose proven next to nothing at the NHL level aside from being inconsistent.

Yes let's trade a player who for us since being called up is practically a model of consistency and produces at a regular pace, and replace him with a guy who has nothing to show for his time in the NHL and everything to prove.

I'm not saying Dawes is terrible, but do we really need a thread like this for every single AHL asset we acquire? Sure he's young, but he isn't going to get called up to replace DD of all people. Let alone get called up at all until injuries or the post season.

Boyd had like 10 game goal streak in Hamilton when first sent down and then did nothing for like 10 games straight after. This guy gets points in his first few games and we get this thread.

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03-04-2011, 09:42 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
...I'm not saying Dawes is terrible, but do we really need a thread like this for every single AHL asset we acquire?...Boyd had like 10 game goal streak in Hamilton when first sent down and then did nothing for like 10 games straight after. This guy gets points in his first few games and we get this thread.
Dawes is leading the AHL in goals and is 10th in points despite having played as many as 10 games fewer than other players ahead of him.

It doesn't mean that he's a slam-dunk top six forward in the NHL. It does mean he is not likely to be a flash-in-the-pan at the AHL level.

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03-05-2011, 04:32 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
--> 5'9" is not so small, relatively speaking.
Especially if he's 200 lbs.

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03-05-2011, 06:09 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
Let me see, DD is fourth best ppg in our forwards despite having less than 30 NHL games.

Seems like a sure shot for top-6.
Behind Wiz, Plek, Cammy and Patches in ppg...
I see only Cammy and Plek as better forwards in our team.
You realize that the more games played the lower the ppg ratio is likely to be.

Now, that doesn't mean I think we should replace DD. I think he's great in the role he's in. But I don't really think he's ready for top-6 duty/minutes yet.

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03-05-2011, 07:22 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by mlajeunesse91 View Post
I would LOVE to see Dawes play for the habs soon... Personally, I would send down DD and replace him with Dawes... DD is a good player, but we are just too small as it is and can't add another smallish player in Dawes ( although he is an upgrade in size from DD). Dawes is a fairly young player, tons of potential and can hold his own on the ice.. I mean 5'9 200lbs is not too bad... DD just cant fit on this team as it is, way too many small guys already. We cant add Dawes without taking a small guy out.

Can't believe all the comments about bringing up journeyman Dawes, who has had plenty of opportunities with other clubs, and sending down one of the younger players on the Habs!!!

Hockey News scouting report:

FLAWS: Must continue to prove he can withstand the pounding of the pro game, since he's small in stature. Needs improvement in his play without the puck and overall defensive-zone coverage. (Martin would not tolerate his defensive lapses)

CAREER POTENTIAL: Inconsistent depth scoring winger.

Let him play in the AHL and revisit the situation next year.

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03-05-2011, 10:47 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
Dawes is indeed an interesting candidate.

He certainly can replace Pyatt or White.
Update on Tom Pyatt, that player allegedly holding us back from winning the Cup.

Record with Pyatt in lineup: 30-14-6

Record with Pyatt in pressbox: 6-9-1

OK, I admit he is not by any means solely responsible for the team success when he plays, but can folks stop pretending that Pyatt is hurting the team badly?

Meanwhile, Dawes is known for being weak defensively; I doubt Martin will use him unless we get injuries to multiple scorers.

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03-05-2011, 10:57 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Update on Tom Pyatt, that player allegedly holding us back from winning the Cup.

Record with Pyatt in lineup: 30-14-6

Record with Pyatt in pressbox: 6-9-1

OK, I admit he is not by any means solely responsible for the team success when he plays, but can folks stop pretending that Pyatt is hurting the team badly?

Meanwhile, Dawes is known for being weak defensively; I doubt Martin will use him unless we get injuries to multiple scorers.
So Tom Pyatt is like a lucky Pyatt's foot.

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03-05-2011, 11:00 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Update on Tom Pyatt, that player allegedly holding us back from winning the Cup.

Record with Pyatt in lineup: 30-14-6

Record with Pyatt in pressbox: 6-9-1

OK, I admit he is not by any means solely responsible for the team success when he plays, but can folks stop pretending that Pyatt is hurting the team badly?

Meanwhile, Dawes is known for being weak defensively; I doubt Martin will use him unless we get injuries to multiple scorers.
Agreed. Also, When Darche returns there will be a logjam of forwards. No need for Dawes, especially with the way the offense has been clicking of late. Simple change i'd like to see when Darche comes back: Darche replaces Pouliot, Pouliot replaces Halpern.
Then maybe Halpern can replace Pyatt.

That would give us this:

Pouliot-Plekanec-Cammy
Gionta-Gomez-Patches
Halpern?-DD-Darche
AK-Eller-Moen

And yes, Darche means a lot to this team.

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03-05-2011, 11:08 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Update on Tom Pyatt, that player allegedly holding us back from winning the Cup.

Record with Pyatt in lineup: 30-14-6

Record with Pyatt in pressbox: 6-9-1

OK, I admit he is not by any means solely responsible for the team success when he plays, but can folks stop pretending that Pyatt is hurting the team badly?

Meanwhile, Dawes is known for being weak defensively; I doubt Martin will use him unless we get injuries to multiple scorers.
According to Eric Engels for CTV and Hockeybuzz he says Dawes is a decent defensive player and has played some PK in some of his NHL stops, and plays with a little grit too.

If Pyatt was that valuable to the team, he would never be out of the line up...I would like to see his icetime totals in those wins to losses.

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Old
03-06-2011, 08:23 AM
  #111
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I simply can't comprehend this replace Pyatt with Dawes mentality. They are 2 completely different players who, if on the same team, would hold 2 completely different roles. I would even argue that bringing up Dawes to play on our 4th line would make us a worse team than leaving Pyatt there.

Contrary to what lots of you seem to think, Pyatt has a role on this team. A role that Dawes simply doesn't have the playing style or specific skill set to fit into.

Pyatt kills penalties and plays a defensively responsible role. The goal of your fourth line is to eat up minutes, giving your top line guys a bit of a breather, without giving up goals. Goals are gravy, not expected. Pyatt represents that on the fourth line, Dawes simply doesn't. Not only that, but Pyatt also takes up valuable PK time. Without Pyatt it's probable that it's Gionta who eats up those minutes. More time PKing = Less time attacking. Or simply more ice time/game which also has its detriments.

I'm not opposed to bringing up Dawes and giving him a shot. That's not what this argument was about. But if were to give Dawes a shot, as has been mentioned a couple of times, it'll be to try and fill a spot on that second line. And if this happens, it's going to be to the determent of Pouliot if anybody, Not Pyatt.

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Old
03-06-2011, 08:50 AM
  #112
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Dawes will get his chance, because you just know there is going to be an injury sooner or later.

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03-06-2011, 09:11 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by angry pirate View Post
I simply can't comprehend this replace Pyatt with Dawes mentality. They are 2 completely different players who, if on the same team, would hold 2 completely different roles. I would even argue that bringing up Dawes to play on our 4th line would make us a worse team than leaving Pyatt there.

Contrary to what lots of you seem to think, Pyatt has a role on this team. A role that Dawes simply doesn't have the playing style or specific skill set to fit into.

Pyatt kills penalties and plays a defensively responsible role. The goal of your fourth line is to eat up minutes, giving your top line guys a bit of a breather, without giving up goals. Goals are gravy, not expected. Pyatt represents that on the fourth line, Dawes simply doesn't. Not only that, but Pyatt also takes up valuable PK time. Without Pyatt it's probable that it's Gionta who eats up those minutes. More time PKing = Less time attacking. Or simply more ice time/game which also has its detriments.

I'm not opposed to bringing up Dawes and giving him a shot. That's not what this argument was about. But if were to give Dawes a shot, as has been mentioned a couple of times, it'll be to try and fill a spot on that second line. And if this happens, it's going to be to the determent of Pouliot if anybody, Not Pyatt.
We've seem to have invented a new type of player -- speedy, non-physical (non-hitter/non-fighter), defensive minded forward with absolutely no offensive finish (and when I say no offensive finish, I mean ZERO).

How many NHL'ers have made a career with this type of style?

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03-06-2011, 09:31 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
We've seem to have invented a new type of player -- speedy, non-physical (non-hitter/non-fighter), defensive minded forward with absolutely no offensive finish (and when I say no offensive finish, I mean ZERO).

How many NHL'ers have made a career with this type of style?
In a sense your right. This is a situation where we are forced to make the best of a less than ideal situation. But I don't think we have anybody in our organization who brings his skill set to the table and has an offensive upside to boot.
If we had someone who played defensively and pk'd as well as Pyatt but could put up 25-30 points a year i'd be all over it. But we don't. And I'm yet convinced that Nigel Dawes plays that role.

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03-06-2011, 09:52 AM
  #115
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In a sense your right. This is a situation where we are forced to make the best of a less than ideal situation. But I don't think we have anybody in our organization who brings his skill set to the table and has an offensive upside to boot.
If we had someone who played defensively and pk'd as well as Pyatt but could put up 25-30 points a year i'd be all over it. But we don't. And I'm yet convinced that Nigel Dawes plays that role.
I'd rather a more physical (typical) 4th liner who can create momentum with a hit, stick up for his team, put up some offensive numbers (5-8 goals)... even if said player is slightly less defensively.

Part of the reason, imo, why Pyatt plays well defensively (in addition to his speed) is because he takes absolutely no risk.

Ask Dawes to play as risk-free as Pyatt and we may realize that Dawes isn't so bad defensively speaking

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03-06-2011, 09:54 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
We've seem to have invented a new type of player -- speedy, non-physical (non-hitter/non-fighter), defensive minded forward with absolutely no offensive finish (and when I say no offensive finish, I mean ZERO).

How many NHL'ers have made a career with this type of style?
Not many, but we are also in a new era of the NHL. The old rules and logic don't necessarily apply any more as the game has changed so much. I am not in love with Pyatt as a player but I really appreciate the work he does because the Habs are a top notch defensive team and Pyatt contributes to that. He was also huge in the playoffs last year and you need guys like that, especially on the PK.

I used to want the prototypical 4th liner in that spot who crashes and bangs and chips in a goal here and there but looking at a lot of the teams Montreal plays, our small speedy forwards eat those guys alive, I suspect the same can happen if Montreal was doing the same.

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03-06-2011, 09:58 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
We've seem to have invented a new type of player -- speedy, non-physical (non-hitter/non-fighter), defensive minded forward with absolutely no offensive finish (and when I say no offensive finish, I mean ZERO).

How many NHL'ers have made a career with this type of style?
There's a bit of luck, bad this year, involved here.

Last year, when Pyatt played with Gomez and Gionta, he chipped in offensively. When he played with Moore and Lapierre, he helped offensively. When he played with Metropolit and Moen, they got some important goals off the forecheck.

This year, he is snakebit. He has 1 goal and 3 goalposts; if it were the other way around, less people would be laughing at his stats. He also could have had 15 assists this year if he were luckier; even if not 15, then at least 5 more since at LEAST 5 completely empty nets were missed by Moen and Halpern after nice passes from Pyatt.

In the AHL last year, Pyatt came close to ppg; this is way better than Ryan White, Andreas Engqvist and others often hyped here. He is actually NOT a guy with zero offensive ability, and with time, he will get his points now and then and could be a valuable third line guy, just like in the playoffs last year when everyone sang Pyatt's praises.

In the meantime, he ain't hurting the team. I've posted the stats often enough to not do it again right now, but suffice it to say that our winning percentage is WAY, WAY better with him playing than when he is sat out.

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Old
03-06-2011, 10:34 AM
  #118
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Typical hab fan bipolar attitude towards new unproven talent. We've got lucky a couple times with Dryden, Penney, Lemieux and Roy. Somehow thats morphed itself into a lets give every schmuck with a pulse a shot to see if the hab magic can rub off. How many times must we overhype some poor kid and then throw him under a bus when he doesn't have that instant magic.

DD paid his dues and then some in the minors. He's being very effective for us so he's gonna stay. The only negative is that he's vertically challenged. Never mind that he's got a heart 10 times bigger than his body should allow.

Dawes will play for us, but he's not the difference maker for a cup run. The way this team gets injured he may be up next week, but not to replace a player like DD on a whim.

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03-06-2011, 10:58 AM
  #119
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Last year, when Pyatt played with Gomez and Gionta, he chipped in offensively. When he played with Moore and Lapierre, he helped offensively. When he played with Metropolit and Moen, they got some important goals off the forecheck.
ummmm, the guy had 2g 3a 5pts last year... and another 4pts in the playoffs. and this year he has 3pts. you can defend his defense but he has definitely never been even competent offensively in the nhl

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03-06-2011, 11:02 AM
  #120
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I used to want the prototypical 4th liner in that spot who crashes and bangs and chips in a goal here and there but looking at a lot of the teams Montreal plays, our small speedy forwards eat those guys alive, I suspect the same can happen if Montreal was doing the same.
The last game Ryan White played, he was on the ice TWICE for 3-on-2s against us, where he started out even with the other team's forward around the offensive blue line, but the other fellow beat White to our blueline by 8 feet and created a dangerous rush. He played very little the rest of that game.

These are the little things a coaching staff sees that the "grit-lovers" do not.

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03-06-2011, 11:12 AM
  #121
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The average height in North American is 5'7 - 5'8 I don't see why they're getting called smurfs.

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03-06-2011, 11:21 AM
  #122
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ummmm, the guy had 2g 3a 5pts last year... and another 4pts in the playoffs. and this year he has 3pts. you can defend his defense but he has definitely never been even competent offensively in the nhl
His 5 pts in the RS were basically in a quarter of a season; his first stint with us he had zero, then went back to Hamilton and dominated a bit, then returned and played well. He was on the ice and contributing for additional goals that he did not necessarily assist on by the way.

In the playoffs his 4 points came in 18 games, which is on pace for 17-20 points in 82 games. He had double the points of Pouliot, and more than a few other players on the team too.

Like I said, he is snakebit this year, but he does have the ability to eventually chip in 20 points per season, I am sure of it.

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03-06-2011, 11:26 AM
  #123
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The last game Ryan White played, he was on the ice TWICE for 3-on-2s against us, where he started out even with the other team's forward around the offensive blue line, but the other fellow beat White to our blueline by 8 feet and created a dangerous rush. He played very little the rest of that game.

These are the little things a coaching staff sees that the "grit-lovers" do not.
Agreed. Players like Pyatt are really useful but don't make the highlight reel. The Habs are one of the hardest teams to beat because they don't have useless plugs in the lineup, despite what many here say.

And Dawes will get his chance, I predict he will get a call up and will feature in the playoffs at some point. Montreal has a habit lately of getting the most out of AHL call-ups.

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03-06-2011, 11:31 AM
  #124
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The average height in North American is 5'7 - 5'8 I don't see why they're getting called smurfs.
And what's the average height in the NHL?

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03-06-2011, 12:38 PM
  #125
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I don't understand how a lot of people don't appreciate Pyatt.

He is not there to score goals. He is there to defend and forecheck. Please show me where he has been bad at that or ftm where he hasn't been excellent in that role. I'm ok with him currently out cuz everyone seems to be doing their jobs, but I like Pyatt and he is certainly important on a team built like ours. Don't remember the last time he made a bad play and I can recall several times I recognized an important play that he made.

Agree with the "let Dawes shine some more in the AHL" opinion.

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