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Roster Talk '11 USA

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Old
04-13-2011, 07:22 PM
  #326
usahockey22flyers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cagney View Post
Since it's looking like the better part of the roster is decided upon, anyone want to consider lines? It might be as pointless as it is painful but I'd like to see some thoughts considering I really haven't paid too much attention to a lot of these players. So...

Kreider-Shannon-Wheeler
Palmieri-Miele-Skille
Brown-Porter-Stapleton
Stastny

Shattenkirk-Komisarek
Stuart-Gardiner
Fayne

Conklin/Montoya

- I don't know that they'll put the two college kids on the top lines but they seem to be more offensively inclined than the other options.

- It's clear that people are very down on Stapleton but he did produce quite well in Finland a few years back so maybe he'll be able to step into a more offensive role if those above him don't work out.

- I don't really think of Brown as an international hockey type of player (ironic considering he's an NTDP guy) but can he play a regular shift if he has to? Or would Stastny be more effective?

- The defense doesn't seem that terrible though it'd be nice to have someone with more experience than Gardiner in the top four.

- Conklin has more long term experience but Montoya is the hot hand. I'd like to see both get a shot in the preliminary games and hopefully one can take the reins.

I'm completely guessing on all of this and nothing would surprise me once the games start. Anyone have any insight or opinions?
Looks good, but probably Fayne ahead of Gardiner.

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04-13-2011, 07:23 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by PaulieVegas View Post
That's it.

I'm done following this thread. No offense to anyone who accepted an invite or those loyally posting, but every time I log on and see the updates on who accepted and who declined, I get closer to needing Xanax.

This is possibly the worst team we've fielded since I've been following the tournament. I've been clamoring for more guys on the bubble for the 2014 Olympics to accept so they can impress the USA brass. But almost to a man, they're declining. It's hard to hold the bubble guys accountable when ALL of them decline.

I truly hope that Burke & Co. send out a memo sometime in the next year making clear to the guys that turning down the Worlds for non-legitimate excuses or phony injuries will count against them when it comes time to picking the Sochi roster. Obviously guys like Kane and Parise will make it no matter what, but when Umberger decides to take a cooking course and EJ decides he's too hurt to play, I hope they do so with the knowledge that it could end their chances in Sochi. Clearly, given all the bubble guys who said no this year, either the USA brass didn't get that message across or they did and the players think they're bluffing.

I will still watch the tournament with a passion. But with no real expectation we will win. After seeing what Canada's roster looks like so far, it's clear we're now the only participating country who doesn't care about this. And that has to change.
Perfect summary man.

So ****ing true.


Last edited by William H Bonney: 04-13-2011 at 07:54 PM. Reason: edited qp
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04-13-2011, 07:34 PM
  #328
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My main question is what's the point in having all these NHL suits on the advisory commitee,only to have so many quality players beg off?

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04-13-2011, 08:37 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
My main question is what's the point in having all these NHL suits on the advisory commitee,only to have so many quality players beg off?
I'd suspect they're not really involved all that much, if at all, for these. It comes off as a "look at us, look at how important we are!" list. It's just the same group, with Tallon added, that they had for the Olympics and will probably get itself attached to the men's national team at every turn. USA Hockey probably compiles a list of all eligible players and then hands it over to the guy in charge of making the calls and lets it go from there.

You know what I'd love to see? Hand the GM reins of this team over to a former US National Player that commands respect with the American Hockey community. Let him make the calls and challenge these players to compete. The player I have in mind, and one whom recently said he wants to get involved with USA Hockey on the executive level in the next couple years, is Chris Chelios. Take Erik Johnson for example. It's a little easier to say no when the guy calling you with the offer (Paul Fenton) is a complete unknown to you. You think these guys would say "no" as easily if Chris Chelios calls, gives his sales pitch, and challenges you to do for your country what his generation did for their era?

I'd love to see USA Hockey start incorporating members of our Glory Era into the organization. Regardless what we think of this tournament and its importance and the silliness of its timing, it's still matters because of how much weight it carries in the IIHF rankings. Bring in some members of our best era and give them the reins for this tournament and see if they can change the culture of it within the American Hockey Community. A guy like Chelios is already involved with Detroit hockey operations. Pat LaFontaine was involved with the Islanders. Tony Amonte is coaching at Thayer Prep. Gary Suter coaches the Madison Capitals AAA team. Call up Brian Leetch, Mike Richter, and the others. Lets them see what they can do with this tournament and this generation of players. It can't be any worse than the paper roster results we've had these past 2 years. We have to do something to try and change the culture behind this tournament with American players. It's clear we care the absolute least about it but I'm not comfortable when the only plan is to hope we develop the depth of Canada and thus can overcome the indifference.

Any other opinions on how we can address this situation?

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Last edited by William H Bonney: 04-13-2011 at 08:46 PM.
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04-13-2011, 08:50 PM
  #330
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I'm going to take the glass half full approach with this roster. There is some considerable size throughout, is overall a good skating bunch, and the goaltending looks solid. I don't see a lot of egos here, so I think we'll see a gritty team first approach. My hope is some latent offensive ability will come out in some of these guys who have underachieved at the NHL level. I definately don't think this will be an easy bunch to play against, and that should be enough to push us through. It would be nice to get a bit more punch up front and on the blueline, and thankfully there is some room to do so. Keep the faith boys!

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04-13-2011, 08:54 PM
  #331
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Might have to be even bigger than Chelios. Maybe someone from the 1980 team. Could you say no to Mike Eruzione if he called? Would be like saying no to Patton if he asked you to enlist in the Marines.

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04-13-2011, 09:19 PM
  #332
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What makes me even sadder is that my wife is from Slovakia, which happens to be hosting the tournament. She keeps telling me how the only thing her friends back home are talking about is this event. How their President and top players got together and made a promotional video about it. How there's a big fight in her homeland just over what the theme song for the tourney should be. And I feel embarassed having to turn to her and point out the names of the guys playing for us and hear her say "Who is dat?" (she has an accent) and have to explain to her how American hockey players and fans could care less, and see the look of bewilderment in her face and hear the story about how her grandfather postponed critical heart surgery to watch Slovakia play in the 2004 finals of the Worlds. I wish we had even a fraction of that passion.

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04-13-2011, 09:20 PM
  #333
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It's an interesting idea to appeal to the former players but the problem I see is that they never really took the worlds too seriously themselves. How seriously could a guy like Kessel take Chelios when Kessel has already played in 3 times as many worlds as Chelios did? Even if it did work with any given player in one year, I don't know that it would be viable for ensuing years.

The players have to want it and it's clear they don't.

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04-13-2011, 10:17 PM
  #334
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Getting top flight American players to play is probably always going to be a problem. But what the US really needs is more depth--middling guys who probably won't make an Olympic roster but aren't 4th liners either. That will raise the overall quality of the team--sure, many of them might still say no, but you get a few to say yes, and who knows, if the overall quality improves a little bit maybe then you start getting a few stars to say yes.

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04-13-2011, 11:12 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
You know what I'd love to see? Hand the GM reins of this team over to a former US National Player that commands respect with the American Hockey community. Let him make the calls and challenge these players to compete. The player I have in mind, and one whom recently said he wants to get involved with USA Hockey on the executive level in the next couple years, is Chris Chelios. Take Erik Johnson for example. It's a little easier to say no when the guy calling you with the offer (Paul Fenton) is a complete unknown to you. You think these guys would say "no" as easily if Chris Chelios calls, gives his sales pitch, and challenges you to do for your country what his generation did for their era?
lol cause all kids want to listen to elders to them

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04-14-2011, 12:55 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by cagney View Post
The players have to want it and it's clear they don't.
What's the old saying, "the carrot or the stick?" The only way to get quality American players right now is to either offer them enticing incentives (which is hard because what can you offer someone making $2m a year that he can't already buy) or threaten reprocussions (like saying "no one plays in the Olympics that hasn't played in at least two of the past four Worlds," which sets you up to look like a hypocrite when you pick Ryan Miller who probably won't ever play in one again).

Something that troubles me is that American depth in hockey is at an all-time high, so you'd think guys would want to play in the Worlds to set themselves apart. But the opposite is happening- guys are declining when they shouldn't be. 10 years ago we had no depth, thus guys had leverage to say no and believe there'd be no repercussions when it came time to pick an Olympic or WC roster. But we were still able to put together a respectable roster. Now we have better depth and competition for certain positions, but guys are actually declining opportunities more often. Doesn't make any sense.

Like I said earlier, as the end of the season approaches next year Burke and Co. Need to put out a small but properly worded memo that says nothing more than, "Beginning today, participation in th World Championships will be a strong factor in determining who makes the Olympic and/or World Cup
rosters." Let's see if these guys are fatigued, feign injury, or take college courses if it's made clear to them that their chances of making the Sochi team are on the line.


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04-14-2011, 02:21 AM
  #337
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I can't help but feel that Team USA needs to find themselves a Ryan Smyth or Shane Doan, a good leader with strong character who shows up every time USA Hockey sends out an invite. Having a guy like that on board should help convince other guys to join the team.
I guess if Zach Parise had played for Florida or Columbus he could have been that guy, but since he plays for a team that almost always makes the playoffs it will be hard for him to take that role.


After having a look at past rosters on Eliteprospects, it seems like Team USA had their best period of "star" participation during the late 1980's and the first few years of the 1990's. Guys like Leetch, Modano, Vanbiesbrouck, Housley, Kevin Stevens and Jeremy Roenick made appearances on the team basically every year. For the past 10-15 years guys of that quality basically haven't taken part at all.


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04-14-2011, 04:52 AM
  #338
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Hi guys, I've read your comments.

I think you should forget about the no shows. Canadians have been following this tournament a long time, despite what people say about this tournament.

The truth is you just can't field your best teams, but the teams are good enough and have good talent.

I've learned that you should just be happy with what you get. So many times in the past Canada has fielded average teams, and we won Gold.

Team USA has a decent team. It's not the players that make the team, it's the team that makes up the team.

And remember, since probably some of new are new at watching this tournament (say 4-5 years), you can have the best star studded team, doesn't mean you will win.

Remember what happened last year, like the true czech fan will tell you that they didn't send a good players, but a great team, and that team beat a star studded Russian team who was going 100% full blast.

So my advice is, just take it for what it is, don't get so overblown about "OMG they didn't accept". It just doesn't work that way, and the professional career's of NHL'rs and the time of this tournament just always and always will make it more difficult.

Just accept it for what it is, enjoy the atmosphere, and other teams that you never will be able to see and play, and enjoy it.

Maybe it's a tough pill to swallow cause you guys want to medal, but you know what,
you guys need the attitude "when the going gets tough, the tough get going."

so just enjoy the tournament .

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04-14-2011, 08:53 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
Hi guys, I've read your comments.

I think you should forget about the no shows. Canadians have been following this tournament a long time, despite what people say about this tournament.

The truth is you just can't field your best teams, but the teams are good enough and have good talent.

I've learned that you should just be happy with what you get. So many times in the past Canada has fielded average teams, and we won Gold.

Team USA has a decent team. It's not the players that make the team, it's the team that makes up the team.

And remember, since probably some of new are new at watching this tournament (say 4-5 years), you can have the best star studded team, doesn't mean you will win.

Remember what happened last year, like the true czech fan will tell you that they didn't send a good players, but a great team, and that team beat a star studded Russian team who was going 100% full blast.

So my advice is, just take it for what it is, don't get so overblown about "OMG they didn't accept". It just doesn't work that way, and the professional career's of NHL'rs and the time of this tournament just always and always will make it more difficult.

Just accept it for what it is, enjoy the atmosphere, and other teams that you never will be able to see and play, and enjoy it.

Maybe it's a tough pill to swallow cause you guys want to medal, but you know what,
you guys need the attitude "when the going gets tough, the tough get going."

so just enjoy the tournament .

That's a good approach. Besides, if you look really hard Blake Wheeler kind of plays like Jason Spezza... Haha.

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04-14-2011, 09:15 AM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
Hi guys, I've read your comments.

I think you should forget about the no shows. Canadians have been following this tournament a long time, despite what people say about this tournament.

The truth is you just can't field your best teams, but the teams are good enough and have good talent.

I've learned that you should just be happy with what you get. So many times in the past Canada has fielded average teams, and we won Gold.

Team USA has a decent team. It's not the players that make the team, it's the team that makes up the team.

And remember, since probably some of new are new at watching this tournament (say 4-5 years), you can have the best star studded team, doesn't mean you will win.

Remember what happened last year, like the true czech fan will tell you that they didn't send a good players, but a great team, and that team beat a star studded Russian team who was going 100% full blast.

So my advice is, just take it for what it is, don't get so overblown about "OMG they didn't accept". It just doesn't work that way, and the professional career's of NHL'rs and the time of this tournament just always and always will make it more difficult.

Just accept it for what it is, enjoy the atmosphere, and other teams that you never will be able to see and play, and enjoy it.

Maybe it's a tough pill to swallow cause you guys want to medal, but you know what,
you guys need the attitude "when the going gets tough, the tough get going."

so just enjoy the tournament .
An average Canadian team though is miles ahead of the collection of players US gets. Take a look at the guys Canada gets--Andrew Ladd, Antoine Vermette, Travis Zajac, etc. While both countries have trouble getting the stars to play, Canada just has a bigger pool to choose from--they've got about 10 times as many "average" players than the US, so even if 70% of average guys turn it down, they can field a decent team with the other 30%. Those same percentages leave the US with maybe 1 decent line, let alone a whole team.

The only way for the US teams to improve is to improve the depth of American players in the league, so that we have more "average" players to choose from--thus even when most choose not to play, we'll still be able to cobble together a team from those that do.

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04-14-2011, 10:20 AM
  #341
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The only thing more brutal than the list of Accepted Players is the ones who declined. Really looks like the US doesn't have the pool to compete at this tier. Great Olympic team when you get your best players together, but not enough depth for the lower level tournaments.

Komisarek? Stapleton? Brown? Skille? No disrespect for these players (well, except for Komisarek ) but that's an ugly international team.

On the plus side, they won't have any pressure on them, and a lot of players thrive in that situation. I wouldn't count anyone out.

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04-14-2011, 10:32 AM
  #342
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The only thing more brutal than the list of Accepted Players is the ones who declined. Really looks like the US doesn't have the pool to compete at this tier. Great Olympic team when you get your best players together, but not enough depth for the lower level tournaments.

Komisarek? Stapleton? Brown? Skille? No disrespect for these players (well, except for Komisarek ) but that's an ugly international team.

On the plus side, they won't have any pressure on them, and a lot of players thrive in that situation. I wouldn't count anyone out.
Right, like the rest of the teams in this tourney are fielding all-star line-ups. Even Canada has some mediocre aspects (relatively speaking). The bottomline is even with this team the U.S. shouldn't have to struggle to beat the likes of Norway and Austria.

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04-14-2011, 11:47 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Right, like the rest of the teams in this tourney are fielding all-star line-ups. Even Canada has some mediocre aspects (relatively speaking). The bottomline is even with this team the U.S. shouldn't have to struggle to beat the likes of Norway and Austria.
As disappointing as this roster is, on paper it still compares well with a good number of teams that play in this tournament. These teams (Denmark, Latvia, Norway, Austria etc.) are able to compete the way they do because the same group of players have been playing together in the same national team system for years. I'm sure that most of the players on this US roster would be able to make their teams and some of them would be the "stars" of the teams. Heck, if this US group played together for years I suspect they'd be a heavy favorite going into matches against those teams. Seeing as they have little to no experience together, it'll make things harder. That's why debacles like last year happen.

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04-14-2011, 12:09 PM
  #344
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after all the crap kessel went through this year (ie. getting ridiculed during the ASG), why should he go? even his own countrymen doesn't respect him.
BINGO!!!

Same thought crossed my mind.

Everybody piled on about him getting picked last at the All-Star Game. A lot of Americans (and Canadians, for that matter) didn't think he even deserved to be an All-Star.

Now people are upset about him not going to play for the USA at the Worlds??

Can't say I blame the guy.

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04-14-2011, 01:30 PM
  #345
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I am glad to see some good young kids like Fayne and Palmieri step up and play on this team. Both of those kids had great years, and Palmieri is a future top 3 power forward....we need more like them.

This team is going to struggle, but at least lets bring some more young kids along for the ride that dont project as 4th line grinders.

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04-14-2011, 01:41 PM
  #346
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I've learned that you should just be happy with what you get. So many times in the past Canada has fielded average teams, and we won Gold.
This is so true. The year I'm remembering is 2003 (Anson Carter's OT goal in the gold medal game) because there were a tonne of Oilers on it. The D corps was Brewer, Dandenault, Staios, Rivet, a 20-year-old Bouwmeester, Jamie Heward and Cory Cross. Yes, Cory freaking Cross won a gold medal for Canada.

I remember people laughing at the 2004 USA roster and you guys eliminated a loaded host Czech team and beat Slovakia for the bronze medal.

So you never know.

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04-14-2011, 02:15 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Right, like the rest of the teams in this tourney are fielding all-star line-ups. Even Canada has some mediocre aspects (relatively speaking). The bottomline is even with this team the U.S. shouldn't have to struggle to beat the likes of Norway and Austria.
But that shouldn't be the measuring stick for USA hockey, not anymore. The goal should be to medal at these tourneys, not avoid the relegation round, and for that goal the team is woefully inadequate.

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04-14-2011, 02:40 PM
  #348
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But that shouldn't be the measuring stick for USA hockey, not anymore. The goal should be to medal at these tourneys, not avoid the relegation round, and for that goal the team is woefully inadequate.
I agree, and henceforth there is no relegation talk out of this guy! Let's hope for the best! Go Blake Wheeler!

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04-14-2011, 07:41 PM
  #349
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You would think that a player could sacrifice 2-3 weeks more of hockey to represent his country. Looking at the other country's rosters, their NHL based players are chomping at the bit to represent their home nations. Its too bad to see US players not take the WC seriously. I'll be at most of the games and it would have been nice to have seen high level US stars playing for the team. This exposes them to some potentially embarrassing results.


Last edited by 1967cougar: 04-14-2011 at 08:39 PM.
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04-14-2011, 08:04 PM
  #350
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It's not that bad. I remember Team USA rosters that were 80% college kids and minor leaguers. If the roster you have gels and plays hard, you should make the QF and depending on the opponent have a shot at the SF. Don't forget a lot of the Euro teams will be worse than at the Olympics, too.

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