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Old
03-03-2011, 02:01 PM
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rye&ginger
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Canucks vs The top NHL defensive teams

Sekeres brings up a great point and its something Ive been wondering about since we lost to the Habs and Bruins.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1922878/

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In the past week, two of the league’s best defensive outfits, Boston and Montreal, have earned regulation-time victories at Rogers Arena. The Canucks rank as the league’s best defensive club this year, allowing just 2.30 goals per game, but are just 1-5-1 against teams ranked two through six in goals-against average. They are 7-9-2 against the top 11

This is a concern for the playoffs. We are in a scoring slump right now, but grinding out wins against tight defenses seems to be a weakness. Running up the score against the Avs, Oilers, or other weak defensive teams is not going to help us in the playoffs.

IMO this is where AV and the other coaches will make it or break it.

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03-03-2011, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rye&ginger View Post
Sekeres brings up a great point and its something Ive been wondering about since we lost to the Habs and Bruins.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1922878/




This is a concern for the playoffs. We are in a scoring slump right now, but grinding out wins against tight defenses seems to be a weakness. Running up the score against the Avs, Oilers, or other weak defensive teams is not going to help us in the playoffs.

IMO this is where AV and the other coaches will make it or break it.
Interesting and concerning stats.. but there is a reason those teams are top defensive teams.. they are good.

I would like to see the other 4 best teams records against the top 5 defensive teams in the league overall.

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03-03-2011, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rye&ginger View Post
Sekeres brings up a great point and its something Ive been wondering about since we lost to the Habs and Bruins.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1922878/




This is a concern for the playoffs. We are in a scoring slump right now, but grinding out wins against tight defenses seems to be a weakness. Running up the score against the Avs, Oilers, or other weak defensive teams is not going to help us in the playoffs.

IMO this is where AV and the other coaches will make it or break it.
This theory was discussed and debunked in another thread I believe. They are going through a little rut. They absolutely dominated Montreal for 50 minutes. Price had to be unreal for them to pull out that game.

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03-03-2011, 02:16 PM
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Haven't we learned that none of this really matters come playoff time? It's a different animal playing the same team game in and game out for a 7 game series. There are way too many other variables going on during the regular season to put a ton of stock into even head to head records.

The fact that they lost 2 games to LA in October is supposed to tell me something about the playoffs?

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03-03-2011, 02:17 PM
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Well let's see, the top 6 defensive teams right now are Boston, Vancouver, Nashville, New York Rangers, Los Angeles and Pittsburgh.

Three are eastern teams we play once. Those are basically a coin flip as to who wins. We played Boston and Nashville once while we've been slumping. The Rangers game was in the middle of our busiest stretch of the season (7th game in 12 nights). Nashville we are 1-1 and Los Angeles we haven't played since the first week of the season when we sucked in general.

I'm not worried about our scoring at all. What I am worried about is our lack of ability to comeback. Last year we were dynamite at coming back when trailing heading into the 3rd. This year we're 0-7-4 when trailing after the first and 2-11-3 after the second.

Last year we were 10-17-1 and 11-21-3 respective.

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03-03-2011, 02:19 PM
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Detroit's 1-3-0 against Nashville. Is anyone picking the Preds over the Wings in the first round because of it?

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03-03-2011, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spixel View Post
Well let's see, the top 6 defensive teams right now are Boston, Vancouver, Nashville, New York Rangers, Los Angeles and Pittsburgh.

Three are eastern teams we play once. Those are basically a coin flip as to who wins. We played Boston and Nashville once while we've been slumping. The Rangers game was in the middle of our busiest stretch of the season (7th game in 12 nights). Nashville we are 1-1 and Los Angeles we haven't played since the first week of the season when we sucked in general.

I'm not worried about our scoring at all. What I am worried about is our lack of ability to comeback. Last year we were dynamite at coming back when trailing heading into the 3rd. This year we're 0-12 when trailing after the first.
Exactly.

I don't put a lot of weight on these stats when we played two of these teams just once, and as you said we haven't played LA since October. Nashville we've split the series.

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03-03-2011, 02:21 PM
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LA was a better defensive team than Vancouver last year .. what happend in the 1st round?

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03-03-2011, 02:24 PM
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The Canucks might have difficulty with all these teams because they're all teams capable of playing good hockey. Welcome to the Western Conference. Its not like the East where there's a chance Philly will get to play Toronto in the first round.

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03-03-2011, 02:29 PM
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To me it boils down to timing. 2 losses to LA while the team was figuring out what they've got. The majority or the other losses were while Edler and Bieksa are out due to injury and Sami is still shaking off the rust.

The 'defensive' teams are not the ones that I would be worried about in a 7 game series.

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03-03-2011, 02:33 PM
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Sample size of two games with the Canucks in a big slide. Let's not read into it.

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03-03-2011, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spixel View Post
Well let's see, the top 6 defensive teams right now are Boston, Vancouver, Nashville, New York Rangers, Los Angeles and Pittsburgh.

Three are eastern teams we play once. Those are basically a coin flip as to who wins. We played Boston and Nashville once while we've been slumping. The Rangers game was in the middle of our busiest stretch of the season (7th game in 12 nights). Nashville we are 1-1 and Los Angeles we haven't played since the first week of the season when we sucked in general.

I'm not worried about our scoring at all. What I am worried about is our lack of ability to comeback. Last year we were dynamite at coming back when trailing heading into the 3rd. This year we're 0-7-4 when trailing after the first and 2-11-3 after the second.

Last year we were 10-17-1 and 11-21-3 respective.
I'm not sure where he came up with that record of 1-5-1 - I guess it depends on the top 5 defensive teams at the time he wrote his article.

As noted above, the top 5 defensive teams (excl the Canucks, of course) are the NYR, NSH, PHI, BOS and LAK.
Looking at the results, the Canucks record against them is 2-4-1.

Of those games, the first LA went to a shootout - in the playoffs, anything can happen in OT.
2 other losses were by 1 goal.
And one of the Canucks win was a domination over the Flyers.

Meh, methinks Sekeres was bored and decided to find fault to help explain their little goal-scoring drought as of late.

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03-03-2011, 02:39 PM
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The Canucks are the #1 defensive team in the West. Against the top half of the other 14 teams (positions 2 through 8) in terms of GA/G in the Western Conference they have a 14-5-4 record. What's more, 5 of those 9 losses came in the first month of the season; since early November the Canucks are 13-2-2 against the top 8 defensive teams in the West.

When you get into talking about their record vs. the top 5 defensive teams in the league the samples sizes get so small, and in some cases outdated, that they are essentially meaningless.

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03-03-2011, 02:40 PM
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I think Sekeres has a point, but ultimately the team needs to find a way to elevate their collective game. TBH I think the team has been very lacsidasicle and lazy until they got down vs the Habs, played well vs the Bruins, but it was a horrible game in all honesty. I mean the Bruins basically played 3 D men along the blue line.

Vancouver needs to ramp up their effort and get it going. They do that it will matter very little who they play.

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03-03-2011, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
When you get into talking about their record vs. the top 5 defensive teams in the league the samples sizes get so small, and in some cases outdated, that they are essentially meaningless.
Exactly. Trying to massage any kind of information out of such a small sample is meaningless.

That's not to say that the Canucks don't struggle against good defensive teams (maybe they do) but to use those numbers as evidence isn't particularly compelling.

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03-03-2011, 02:47 PM
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rye&ginger
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
LA was a better defensive team than Vancouver last year .. what happend in the 1st round?
We were lucky Samuelson got hot? Our PK was bad, and only got slightly better against Chicago.

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Originally Posted by Bolt Vanderhuge View Post
Sample size of two games with the Canucks in a big slide. Let's not read into it.
Sample size is bigger than two game c'mon now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
The Canucks are the #1 defensive team in the West. Against the top half of the other 14 teams (positions 2 through 8) in terms of GA/G in the Western Conference they have a 14-5-4 record. What's more, 5 of those 9 losses came in the first month of the season; since early November the Canucks are 13-2-2 against the top 8 defensive teams in the West.

When you get into talking about their record vs. the top 5 defensive teams in the league the samples sizes get so small, and in some cases outdated, that they are essentially meaningless.
Fair enough. Sample size is not huge but its more than two but less than what we can see vs these 14.

I can see how timing of the games came into this, with our poor play at the start of the year.

Still, this is one of the few concerns for the club.

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03-03-2011, 02:50 PM
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Shankill Butcher
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Is anyone else starting to feel like a lot of the Vancouver writers are lurking on here for ideas? I swear NuxFan or someone brought exactly this up not even two days ago in a thread.

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03-03-2011, 02:54 PM
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Is anyone else starting to feel like a lot of the Vancouver writers are lurking on here for ideas? I swear NuxFan or someone brought exactly this up not even two days ago in a thread.
I've actually thought about this recently. Even listening to the team 1040. Some of the topics and issues are brought up in new threads on here.. then i hear guys like Pratt/Taylor sekeres bringing it up on the air.

Must be easy being a sports writer now.

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Old
03-03-2011, 03:04 PM
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We were lucky Samuelson got hot? Our PK was bad, and only got slightly better against Chicago.



Sample size is bigger than two game c'mon now.



Fair enough. Sample size is not huge but its more than two but less than what we can see vs these 14.

I can see how timing of the games came into this, with our poor play at the start of the year.

Still, this is one of the few concerns for the club.
Lucky Sammy got hot?? IF anything was more of a fluke I think how bad the PK was something that won't happen that bad again. With any kind of good PK in that series the Canucks win that series in 5.. maybe 4.

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03-03-2011, 03:18 PM
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If it comes from the pen (or keyboard as the case may be) of Matt "The Moron" Sekeres I immediately discount it.

As Jason Botchford points out the Canucks are in a bit of funk - just like recent Stanley Cup winners. He also discusses this with Mikael Samuelsson who has been down the road with Detroit who were home and cooled out early, coasted and then stepped on the gas.
If the Canucks want to win a Stanley Cup, at least they've been mediocre.

That's the way Chicago looked last year. The Hawks lost eight of 11 in March, then went on their Cup run. Same story for the Penguins the year before. Lose 7 of 11 in February, then win a championship. What about the Red Wings in February, 2008? They lost 10 of 11. People wondered if they were done. They weren't. They were champions, instead.

It doesn't end there. The Anaheim Ducks lost 17 of 25 in an ugly, post-all-star game stretch during their 2006-07 Stanley Cup-winning season. What hurt in February was forgotten in June.

On and on it goes. Champions get off to wonderful starts, sag violently and find a way to get it together for a four-round march to the Cup.
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...804/story.html

Samuelsson's take drawing on his Wings' experience?

"You begin to feel more comfortable (at the top of the standings), like the whole dressing room does," he said. "You settle down. You don't have to win every game, that's the position we're in now. It's actually a good feeling.

"You can say we're in a slump, but I say 'who cares?'"

"We are still in a great position."

"You can rest guys. It's not terrible. It's not good, it's not bad. Everyone knows we can pick it up. But that's hard to do the whole, whole season. Be sharp every game? Be this, be that? That's what you want to do, but it's hard."

"If you lose just a little, little bit in your mental game, that's all it takes. I don't think it's difficult to get back but you have to bear down after a while and say 'Enough is enough.'"

"Say what you want, I will be surprised if we outwork any more teams this year. Everybody is in the playoff hunt and they are all fighting for their lives."

"This is almost playoffs. Maybe we should beat them if you look at the lineup, but that's not the case."

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Old
03-03-2011, 03:24 PM
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"Say what you want, I will be surprised if we outwork any more teams this year".

-Mikael Samuelsson

Man I love this guys quotes.

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03-03-2011, 03:30 PM
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Shankill Butcher
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"You can say we're in a slump, but I say 'who cares?'"

"Say what you want, I will be surprised if we outwork any more teams this year."
haha, love it.

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03-03-2011, 03:43 PM
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haha, love it.
Worth noting the context, funny as it sounds. My reading is that he's implying that they beat a lot of teams this year by outworking them, but now that every team is in desperation mode -- i.e., likely to raise their level of work to match the Canucks' -- it's unlikely that they will win many more games solely on that basis.

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Old
03-03-2011, 03:45 PM
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Worth noting the context, funny as it sounds. My reading is that he's implying that they beat a lot of teams this year by outworking them, but now that every team is in desperation mode -- i.e., likely to raise their level of work to match the Canucks' -- it's unlikely that they will win many more games solely on that basis.
Yup. Samuelsson is just awesome.

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Old
03-03-2011, 03:45 PM
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Samuelsson's quotes are just slightly irritating. Maybe the team doesn't care if they're in a bit of a slump, but the fans sure do. They're paying gargantuan prices to go watch those games in person. You can't expect a win every game, no, but show that you care at the very least.

I say to the Canucks: Let me know when the stretch of games in which you guys will coast is and I'll be sure not to be at those games.

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