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Canucks vs The top NHL defensive teams

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Old
03-03-2011, 03:49 PM
  #26
Zarpan
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Originally Posted by rye&ginger View Post
Fair enough. Sample size is not huge but its more than two but less than what we can see vs these 14.

I can see how timing of the games came into this, with our poor play at the start of the year.

Still, this is one of the few concerns for the club.
I think the five teams he was basing it on are Boston, Nashville, NY Rangers, Pittsburgh, and LA.

Timing seems to come into play for most of the sample since we seem to play those teams during stretches where we're barely beating poor defensive teams anyway. I think only one of the seven games he referenced actually came during one of our hot streaks. The others were at the beginning of the season, during that overtime/shootout losing streak we had, or during the current alternating win/loss stretch.

It does indicate that we can't beat the top defensive teams when we're in a stretch of not playing well, but I guess that shouldn't be a surprise. I don't think it indicates that we can't play well against good defensive teams though.

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03-03-2011, 04:27 PM
  #27
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it's a bit concerning, in that you can see some parallels to the Caps forming there...and the potential of getting 'Habsed' out of the 1st round is a bit upsetting. but i really don't think it's nearly as big a deal as some people make it out to be.

i mean sure, they could do a better job of picking up garbage goals at times. and there have been games where AV and the team have played directly into the games of these defensive teams. and of course the ability to roll 4 lines that can score is a huge advantage against teams like that (which we look very close to being able to do now). but at the end of the day...hopefully when they get up to playoff intensity, the determination and discipline will be there to beat these defensive shutdown teams.

but there is still that lingering concern when you hear things like, 'well they dominated the Habs and would've won, if Price hadn't played unreal...'

sounds familiar...

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03-03-2011, 04:44 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Zarpan View Post
I think the five teams he was basing it on are Boston, Nashville, NY Rangers, Pittsburgh, and LA.

Timing seems to come into play for most of the sample since we seem to play those teams during stretches where we're barely beating poor defensive teams anyway. I think only one of the seven games he referenced actually came during one of our hot streaks. The others were at the beginning of the season, during that overtime/shootout losing streak we had, or during the current alternating win/loss stretch.

It does indicate that we can't beat the top defensive teams when we're in a stretch of not playing well, but I guess that shouldn't be a surprise. I don't think it indicates that we can't play well against good defensive teams though.

Yeah, just looking at some of the games against top defensive teams:

BOS (1st in GA/G): In the middle of their current slump. Boston kept them to 1 goal, but so did Columbus the next game, and they're 21st in GA/G.

NSH (3rd in GA/G): Two tight games, but the one which the Canucks lost and were held to only 1 goal also had Tanev, Oberg, and Sauve in the lineup. It's hard to generate a ton of offense with one top 6 defenseman in the lineup (and Salo who hadn't played in a year).

NYR (4th in GA/G): The Canucks were in the middle of a 2-2-4 stretch where they only managed 15 GF in 8 games; their scoring wasn't doing that well regardless of who they played.

LAK (5th in GA/G): Haven't played them in almost 5 months. I hesitate to draw any conclusions about the current team based on games that happened in October.


Really, the rankings don't mean a whole lot anyway. LA, New York, and Pittsburgh are only very slightly ahead of teams like San Jose, Philadelphia and Minnesota, all of whom the Canucks have had 5+ goal games this season. To draw a clear distinction between a team that has allowed 2.44 GA/G (LA) and a team that has allowed 2.52 GA/G (San Jose and Philadelphia) in order to make a statistical argument is silly, IMO.

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03-03-2011, 04:54 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
it's a bit concerning, in that you can see some parallels to the Caps forming there...and the potential of getting 'Habsed' out of the 1st round is a bit upsetting. but i really don't think it's nearly as big a deal as some people make it out to be.

i mean sure, they could do a better job of picking up garbage goals at times. and there have been games where AV and the team have played directly into the games of these defensive teams. and of course the ability to roll 4 lines that can score is a huge advantage against teams like that (which we look very close to being able to do now). but at the end of the day...hopefully when they get up to playoff intensity, the determination and discipline will be there to beat these defensive shutdown teams.

but there is still that lingering concern when you hear things like, 'well they dominated the Habs and would've won, if Price hadn't played unreal...'

sounds familiar...
Huge difference between the Canucks and Caps in their structure and defensive play though. Washington was a mediocre 16th defensively last year and a horrible 25th on the PK.

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03-03-2011, 04:55 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
Samuelsson's quotes are just slightly irritating. Maybe the team doesn't care if they're in a bit of a slump, but the fans sure do. They're paying gargantuan prices to go watch those games in person. You can't expect a win every game, no, but show that you care at the very least.

I say to the Canucks: Let me know when the stretch of games in which you guys will coast is and I'll be sure not to be at those games.
1. you want the team to burn out before the playoffs lowering their chance of stanley cup? That's unusual. Or is it you would rather they coast and pretend they are not?

2. part of what samuelsson is saying is you can't fake desperation and every team below us at this stage is more desperate than we are

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03-03-2011, 05:02 PM
  #31
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Is anyone else starting to feel like a lot of the Vancouver writers are lurking on here for ideas? I swear NuxFan or someone brought exactly this up not even two days ago in a thread.
I've felt like this for a long time. Things are always discussed here before some writer thinks he's smrt for putting it into the paper.

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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
1. you want the team to burn out before the playoffs lowering their chance of stanley cup? That's unusual. Or is it you would rather they coast and pretend they are not?

2. part of what samuelsson is saying is you can't fake desperation and every team below us at this stage is more desperate than we are
Exactly, and when the playoffs roll around, the Canucks desperation and effort level will rise again on top of just having a better team period.

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03-03-2011, 05:08 PM
  #32
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Huge difference between the Canucks and Caps in their structure and defensive play though. Washington was a mediocre 16th defensively last year and a horrible 25th on the PK.
agreed. i don't see it as being the same situation at all. most of the Canucks key players have been around through the defensively stifling incarnations of the Canucks anyway...and i think that carries through. and the Canucks are certainly a very good team defensively (when the focus is there). the players in place are very capable defensively. it's more on the offensive side of the puck that i'd say the similarities are there...

and it's still hard to shake that sense that it *could* happen to them... that's the playoffs though. sometimes you run into a hot goaltender, or a stifling team. just have to hope they have the talent and drive to overcome that.

but again, not really all that concerned with it. just a little nagging doubt in the background i suppose.

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03-03-2011, 05:09 PM
  #33
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1. you want the team to burn out before the playoffs lowering their chance of stanley cup? That's unusual. Or is it you would rather they coast and pretend they are not?

2. part of what samuelsson is saying is you can't fake desperation and every team below us at this stage is more desperate than we are
No, I agree with all that, for sure. I just have a hard time believing that they couldn't have tried just a BIT harder in games such as the contest the other night against the Blue Jackets. Is a bit of extra effort here and there really going to burn them out? I don't think so.

On the other hand, the point about not being able to fake desperation is absolutely true and I see what Samuelsson meant when he said he wouldn't be surprised if the Canucks got routinely outworked by most of these playoff bubble teams. The comment I didn't appreciate was him saying he doesn't necessarily care that they're in a slump. However, I'm not going to read much into it. I just hope they're ready to turn it up several notches once the stretch drive hits. They want to be hot going into the playoffs after all.

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Old
03-03-2011, 05:15 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
agreed. i don't see it as being the same situation at all. most of the Canucks key players have been around through the defensively stifling incarnations of the Canucks anyway...and i think that carries through. and the Canucks are certainly a very good team defensively (when the focus is there). the players in place are very capable defensively. it's more on the offensive side of the puck that i'd say the similarities are there...

and it's still hard to shake that sense that it *could* happen to them... that's the playoffs though. sometimes you run into a hot goaltender, or a stifling team. just have to hope they have the talent and drive to overcome that.

but again, not really all that concerned with it. just a little nagging doubt in the background i suppose.
Ya, there is always going to be that little bit of doubt, for me I think it stems not from any inability on the Canucks part but simply because a lot of these teams are very good at playing that stifling type of game. There is so much parity in the NHL that any team has a legitimate shot in a playoff series.

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03-03-2011, 05:18 PM
  #35
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The team are building up for play off, it is of course good but the desperate teams will have an edge for sure. But in the process these teams will lose key players and get many other exhausted when play off come, and then blame their impending elimination on bad luck.

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03-03-2011, 05:20 PM
  #36
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Just curious... aren't the top defensive teams hard to score against for all other teams as well? I mean that's why their average is so good. Seriously Botchford...

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03-03-2011, 05:21 PM
  #37
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Sams is so awesome! he should be a coach after his hockey career hahaha love the things he says.

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03-03-2011, 06:32 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
I say to the Canucks: Let me know when the stretch of games in which you guys will coast is and I'll be sure not to be at those games.
They have: Every game from now until the playoffs.

I'm fine with that as long as they show-up in the playoffs.

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03-03-2011, 06:42 PM
  #39
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I stopped reading at the byline.

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03-03-2011, 06:57 PM
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Too many people getting caught up worrying about the offense. It will be fine as it always has been. The PP will score goals, and the canucks offense will score 3+ goals a game in the playoffs once again. Success will depend on how well all of Gillis additions do in helping the PK/defensive coverage, and if Luongo can find his 06-07 form. Our PK, defense core and Luongo haven't been this good since 06-07, a year where we didn't have anything close to the offense/PP we have this year to compliment it. 8% of Canadians suffer from some sort of anxiety, and 7.99% of those are Canuck fans.

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03-03-2011, 07:32 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
Samuelsson's quotes are just slightly irritating. Maybe the team doesn't care if they're in a bit of a slump, but the fans sure do. They're paying gargantuan prices to go watch those games in person. You can't expect a win every game, no, but show that you care at the very least.

I say to the Canucks: Let me know when the stretch of games in which you guys will coast is and I'll be sure not to be at those games.
Sure! Be happy now with a president's trophy and be sad later when we get knocked out of the first round with accumulated fatigue and injuries.

Because I would much prefer to have a 55+ win season than a better chance at the Stanley Cup!

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03-03-2011, 07:36 PM
  #42
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Just curious... aren't the top defensive teams hard to score against for all other teams as well? I mean that's why their average is so good. Seriously Botchford...
The article was by Sekeres not Botchford.

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03-03-2011, 07:37 PM
  #43
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I stopped reading at the byline.
A very shrewd decision.

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03-03-2011, 11:31 PM
  #44
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Aaaaaaaaaaand bump...

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03-03-2011, 11:44 PM
  #45
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Against these tight checking teams, it's essential that we capitalize on the PP, which we haven't as of late.

So so aggravating to watch.

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03-03-2011, 11:44 PM
  #46
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hate to say it, but good bump

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Old
03-03-2011, 11:48 PM
  #47
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It's like practice for the playoffs, but we're not learning the lessons. When we struggle offensively I'd like to see them do everything short of steamrolling the goalie to get one in. Maybe even that as well. So frustrating... I am disappoint.

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03-03-2011, 11:58 PM
  #48
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Against these tight checking teams, it's essential that we capitalize on the PP, which we haven't as of late.

So so aggravating to watch.
the powerplay for the last 10 games are so has gone awol. #1 vancouver isn't getting the calls like they used to earlier in the season where their #1 rank pp at 25% has been their bread/butter to put teams away and score key goals. Now, that it's march and almost playoff time, the refs aren't calling those "hooks/holds and stuff. they are letting it go. #2 the canucks simply pass too much IMO. they don't shoot alot and when they do it gets blocked.

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03-04-2011, 12:01 AM
  #49
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The Canucks could have played the expansion Senators and not scored the way they've been playing lately.

If the Predators could effectively shut down a Canucks offense that actually had some semblance of its normal quality they'd be fighting for the President's Trophy like the Canucks are.

The Canucks are in a slump and playing bad hockey. They're not being shut down so much as they're shutting themselves down.

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03-04-2011, 12:45 AM
  #50
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The Canucks could have played the expansion Senators and not scored the way they've been playing lately.

If the Predators could effectively shut down a Canucks offense that actually had some semblance of its normal quality they'd be fighting for the President's Trophy like the Canucks are.

The Canucks are in a slump and playing bad hockey. They're not being shut down so much as they're shutting themselves down.
Lack of intensity - Samuelsson called it:
"You begin to feel more comfortable (at the top of the standings), like the whole dressing room does," he said. "You settle down. You don't have to win every game, that's the position we're in now. It's actually a good feeling.

"You can say we're in a slump, but I say 'who cares?'
...
"Say what you want, I will be surprised if we outwork any more teams this year," Samuelsson said. "Everybody is in the playoff hunt and they are all fighting for their lives.

"This is almost playoffs. Maybe we should beat them if you look at the lineup, but that's not the case."
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Ca...#ixzz1Fbvacxsv

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