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John Tortorella Discussion (Update: Torts extended 3 years)

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Old
04-08-2011, 10:44 AM
  #601
StaalWars
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
only way to make it happen is to hit em where it hurts them most....ticket revenue. fans stop showing up, he'll do something about it. but it wont happen. not ever. Sather has as long as he wants to be on this team.

with that said, i still think were heading in the right direction, and arent too far off from being an eastern conference contender.
It won't happen, ever, because a large percentage of our fanbase (I suspect most of whom belong to the younger demographic) continue to buy the Sather and MSG propaganda that there is a pot of gold just over the rainbow and all we have to do is keep chugging along and we'll get there eventually.

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04-08-2011, 11:07 AM
  #602
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Yeah but you need to score more than two goals combined against those teams. I'm not sure how Torts is responsible for the lack of goals.
What is he responcible for then? You need an offensive talent to score against good defensive teams. Like Boston, or NJ (tough game tomorrow). We did beat BOS out of desperation or whatever, we did win. We do not need any superior talent to win a game against much lesser team. All we need is no be desperate. I blame Torts for lack of desperation. Lack of talent is Sather to pin.
Against the team like ATL or BOS or any other, Rangers have to play defensive hockey, be patient and win without offense. Torts went to Safe is Death avenue and we all know who lost.


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04-08-2011, 12:07 PM
  #603
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SOunds more to me like a lack of vets who by now would know how to come out right. Which is why we won most games this year and barely lost about every game. No vet presence this year whatsoever except Dubs cally staal girardi and prust. That's about one veteran line and pair that showed up and we did this well? I can't be too mad at the coach even though yes he still needs to fix a lot of problems. All home grown guys performed while outsiders sucked even if they've been here for several years.(I don't count 2nd year guys like Artie as vets and Boyle has barely been in the leaguye despite his age).
Part of the coaches job is to get the vets going if they are not holding their weight. Every good coach can motivate veteran players, this time of year it shouldnt be that hard either.

Every vet on this team not named Fedetenko has had problems with Torts. Does he get the best out of these players? Maybe Prospal, who is the ultimate Torts guy, but even he's been awful for stretches at a time.

The home games(particularly the first periods) have been some of the worst I've ever seen from any Ranger team, even the horrible 7 year no playoff circus.

Last year we were 19th in goals scored and 9th in goals against. This year we're 13th in goals and 6th in goals against and still our coach can't find a balance in there to win enough games to get in the playoffs. With all the help other teams in our conference gave us the first half of the season this team should have easily made the playoffs.

But the young guys have progressed and that's all that a coach needs to do to keep his job, right?

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04-08-2011, 12:11 PM
  #604
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Part of the coaches job is to get the vets going if they are not holding their weight. Every good coach can motivate veteran players, this time of year it shouldnt be that hard either.

Every vet on this team not named Fedetenko has had problems with Torts. Does he get the best out of these players? Maybe Prospal, who is the ultimate Torts guy, but even he's been awful for stretches at a time.

The home games(particularly the first periods) have been some of the worst I've ever seen from any Ranger team, even the horrible 7 year no playoff circus.

Last year we were 19th in goals scored and 9th in goals against. This year we're 13th in goals and 6th in goals against and still our coach can't find a balance in there to win enough games to get in the playoffs. With all the help other teams in our conference gave us the first half of the season this team should have easily made the playoffs.

But the young guys have progressed and that's all that a coach needs to do to keep his job, right?
The constant line juggling, the team being scared to shoot, slapshot and one-timers being foreign concepts on this team.

Has any team had a powerplay ranking fluctuate like ours has?

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04-08-2011, 12:15 PM
  #605
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Don't get me started with the PP, something Renney was blasted for, but now everyone blames the players not the coach. Really? We all sit here the last month watching this awful PP do the same thing over and over and we cant honestly say that maybe something, anything, could have been done? Ugh....

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04-08-2011, 12:21 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Don't get me started with the PP, something Renney was blasted for, but now everyone blames the players not the coach. Really? We all sit here the last month watching this awful PP do the same thing over and over and we cant honestly say that maybe something, anything, could have been done? Ugh....
Oh, the players are at fault too but the coach has been seeing the same ole, same ole from a lot of games and he can't get it through their heads to shoot? How many times have we not had someone in front with the goalie?

I think those players that will become RFAs should get what they ask for with just one prerequisite: Learn how to take a slapshot.

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04-08-2011, 12:22 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by 3Four3 View Post
The constant line juggling, the team being scared to shoot, slapshot and one-timers being foreign concepts on this team.

Has any team had a powerplay ranking fluctuate like ours has?
So many people cite that as a complaint and it's really not a very good one. Coaches shuffle lines when they become stale. Things weren't working and we're not in a position where we can wait something like that out. Renney did it, Torts does it, the next guy will do it. That's what hockey coaches do when the lines aren't working.

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04-08-2011, 12:26 PM
  #608
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Oh, the players are at fault too but the coach has been seeing the same ole, same ole from a lot of games and he can't get it through their heads to shoot? How many times have we not had someone in front with the goalie?

I think those players that will become RFAs should get what they ask for with just one prerequisite: Learn how to take a slapshot.
The problem is they telegraph EVERY MOVE on the PP. The opponents, the coaches, the refs, the fans in the stands/at home, Sam and Joe, the refs, the hot dog vendors - everyone watching knows what the Rangers are gonna do next, its painfully obvious, that's why little tricklers like Sauers goal against the Bruins should be so meaningful to this team. Just get it to the net and let the puck and hard work do the rest.

Yet they still try to make the perfect pass or try to get a player to go for the fake that fakes no one.

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04-08-2011, 12:26 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
So many people cite that as a complaint and it's really not a very good one. Coaches shuffle lines when they become stale. Things weren't working and we're not in a position where we can wait something like that out. Renney did it, Torts does it, the next guy will do it. That's what hockey coaches do when the lines aren't working.
We don't have natural goal scorers and natural play makers that will click with anybody you put out on the ice with them.

And other coaches do that as well. When an injury occurs, you'll get a mix-up.

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04-08-2011, 12:29 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
So many people cite that as a complaint and it's really not a very good one. Coaches shuffle lines when they become stale. Things weren't working and we're not in a position where we can wait something like that out. Renney did it, Torts does it, the next guy will do it. That's what hockey coaches do when the lines aren't working.
Yup, especially on a team like the Rangers who have been plagued by chemistry issues for years....

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04-08-2011, 12:31 PM
  #611
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If Gaborik showed up more than once every 4 or 5 games, we might not be in this predicament... I was looking at some of his statistics last night:

Gaborik has 10 of his 22 goals and 13 of his 47 points in 3 games this season.... Outside of those 3 games, he has 12 goals and 34 points in the other 57 games, or 1 goal every 4.75 games and .59 PPG pace.

I'm sure Avery's 2.2% shooting percentage hasn't helped either... He has the lowest shooting percentage on the team outside of Drury, McDonagh (who have 0 goals on the season).

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04-08-2011, 12:39 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Don't get me started with the PP, something Renney was blasted for, but now everyone blames the players not the coach. Really? We all sit here the last month watching this awful PP do the same thing over and over and we cant honestly say that maybe something, anything, could have been done? Ugh....
I went last night and was sitting amongst fellow ranger fans who all screamed decline it when we got PP opportunities. It was game 81 so I didn't expect torts/sullivan to suddenly have a plan to fix the PP but having staal in the slot is not working and the teams failure to take shots, go to the net and constantly falter getting in the offensive zone on the PP is beyond pathetic. He shouldn't get all the blame but bring in a coach to work on the PP with a new game plan cause it's obvious his PP strategies are failing and costing us games. We bring in McCabe and our PP still won't shoot and can't set up in the offensive zone. At this point I'm not expecting the PP to start to work but something needs to be done to improve the PP next season besides personnel.

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04-08-2011, 12:48 PM
  #613
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What does Sullivan do for this team? Does he run the PP?

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04-08-2011, 01:04 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
If Gaborik showed up more than once every 4 or 5 games, we might not be in this predicament... I was looking at some of his statistics last night:

Gaborik has 10 of his 22 goals and 13 of his 47 points in 3 games this season.... Outside of those 3 games, he has 12 goals and 34 points in the other 57 games, or 1 goal every 4.75 games and .59 PPG pace.

I'm sure Avery's 2.2% shooting percentage hasn't helped either... He has the lowest shooting percentage on the team outside of Drury, McDonagh (who have 0 goals on the season).
how bout this one

we got exactly 22 total goals this season out of 14.5 million dollars spent on gaborik and capt quaalude.

thats 660,000 per goal. thats almost a whole seasons worth of salary for derek stepan.

on the flip side stepan- a rook- scored 21 goals at 33,950 per goal.

good value there.



good teams cannot afford to pay top dollar for failed production.

i blame 3 things for this years failure.

powerplay- thats on torts and sully and the in ability to score here pretty much cost us the season.
gaborik- pure failure but im thinking that he and torts hate each other. either way, hes paid to score goals and he failed miserably.
torts- clueless on leading a team that isnt stacked with talent and on cruise control. torts must go.

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04-08-2011, 01:16 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
I went last night and was sitting amongst fellow ranger fans who all screamed decline it when we got PP opportunities. It was game 81 so I didn't expect torts/sullivan to suddenly have a plan to fix the PP but having staal in the slot is not working and the teams failure to take shots, go to the net and constantly falter getting in the offensive zone on the PP is beyond pathetic. He shouldn't get all the blame but bring in a coach to work on the PP with a new game plan cause it's obvious his PP strategies are failing and costing us games. We bring in McCabe and our PP still won't shoot and can't set up in the offensive zone. At this point I'm not expecting the PP to start to work but something needs to be done to improve the PP next season besides personnel.
When we aquired Mccabe we said to the competition one of two things - 1)he's gonna blast away so just you try and stop'em ! 2)He's gonna act as a decoy and pass off to Gaborik for the one timer.

Either way the league has had little trouble figuring it out, this is not the juniors where you can get away with this.

They should be teaming up as a unit that works it in and out of high traffic and use that famous work ethic to the high % rebound areas, where offense really matters most. Keep it simple, come to the net with broad shoulders and a big set of balls instead of trying to setup up one particular part of that 5 man unit. This is not the '88 Oilers where passing and shooting is so accurate they never had to get their noses dirty.

Even the Sedins with all their talent bring it hard to the net on the PP instead of trying to finesse every move. They mix it up, frustrates opposition. Its smart hockey, winning hockey.

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04-08-2011, 01:27 PM
  #616
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how bout this one

we got exactly 22 total goals this season out of 14.5 million dollars spent on gaborik and capt quaalude.

thats 660,000 per goal. thats almost a whole seasons worth of salary for derek stepan.

on the flip side stepan- a rook- scored 21 goals at 33,950 per goal.

good value there.



good teams cannot afford to pay top dollar for failed production.

i blame 3 things for this years failure.

powerplay- thats on torts and sully and the in ability to score here pretty much cost us the season.
gaborik- pure failure but im thinking that he and torts hate each other. either way, hes paid to score goals and he failed miserably.
torts- clueless on leading a team that isnt stacked with talent and on cruise control. torts must go.
Here's more perspective:

Quote:
Heading into this season, our 3 highest paid forwards (Gaborik, Drury, Frolov) took up a combined $17.5 mil in cap space, or approx 30% of our total cap space... To date, given the slumping and the injuries, those 3 forwards have produced just 67 points combined, which is just 11% of our total points scored this season.

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04-08-2011, 03:13 PM
  #617
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The PP itself should justify firing a coaching staff. I have never ever seen a PP so lost and so hopeless as this team's over the last stretch. Pathetic.

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04-08-2011, 03:16 PM
  #618
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The PP itself should justify firing a coaching staff. I have never ever seen a PP so lost and so hopeless as this team's over the last stretch. Pathetic.
Where were you at the tail end of the Renney years?

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04-08-2011, 03:44 PM
  #619
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Where were you at the tail end of the Renney years?
And what happened to Renney after the tail end of his years...

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04-08-2011, 04:43 PM
  #620
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What does Sullivan do for this team? Does he run the PP?
Pretty sure he runs the defense and the powerplay. The PP could be a combo of him and torts, but I'm pretty sure the PP is all his. It's absurd they can't bring someone in here (another coach) to just run the PP heck get zubov or anyone, someone who will make these guys go to the net, create traffic and shoot.


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04-08-2011, 06:17 PM
  #621
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You know for all the posters who call for his head I have yet to read one good post on a replacement if he is gone. Who out there do you feel is a better coach for this team than Torts?

I will LOL if we fire Torts and Sather hires #99 to be bench boss. Yeah like that will NEVER happen right?

Be careful what you wish for guys and gals.

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04-08-2011, 08:55 PM
  #622
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Somebody better pay the price for collaple in the last few games 3 years in a row!

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04-08-2011, 08:58 PM
  #623
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Somebody better pay the price for collaple in the last few games 3 years in a row!
I propose Drury, Gilroy, and Sullivan pay the price.

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04-08-2011, 10:14 PM
  #624
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I propose Drury, Gilroy, and Sullivan pay the price.
Instead of Gaborik?

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04-09-2011, 03:37 AM
  #625
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Yes, we had a soft team in New York for a long time. Yes, the team is tougher and works hard now.

So should John Tortorella get the Adams for it?

Facts are that we have been rebuilding for seven years. Back in 2005 there was a hour long draft special broadcasted on MSG, the message was clear -- draft players with great attitude. Since then we have gathered a bunch of home grown, hard working, blue collar guys with great attitude. Ryan Callahan and co. Marc Staal. Daniel Girardi. Michael Sauer. Brandon Dubinsky. We have picked up guys like Brandon Prust. We have a team full of home grown hard working players.

What is the least you could expect from the roster we have now?

What would just about any coach in this league get out of this roster?

Truth to be told, I would be extremely dissapointed in a coach that came to NY, coached these kids, and got a sub-par effort on the avg night. I do not think any of the 30 coaches behind the bench in this league could fail in that regard with these guys. Would Ryan Callahan stop working hard if we had Mike Babcock or Peter Lavioette or Lemiere or someone like that behind the bench? Lol, I doubt it.

A coach is like a player. Eric Christensen have done a lot of good things in NY. I am not saying that John Tortorella never have done any good things in NY. I think he have done a lot of good things.

But overall? We are a freaking mess on the ice in almost all the areas a coach should be held accountable for. How the team is formated. How we play defense. How we had up ice. We have one option and that is a long stretch pass that is redirected into the attacking zone, if we try anything else odds are that we will screw up and give up a 2 on 1.

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