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ATD 2011 Draft Thread VII

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Old
03-09-2011, 08:34 PM
  #726
Dreakmur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
Shoulda been in the HHOF by now. But the entire hockey world already knows that. Damn voters.
Damn those voters for being completely right!

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Old
03-09-2011, 08:46 PM
  #727
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Apologize for the skipped pick.

The Montreal AAA select: G - Tom Barrasso

I've waited for a while..partially due to my stupidity and partially cause I wanted some guys more than some of the available goalies...this guy falls due to his attittude and his frustrations when he isn't a starter. He doesn't have to worry about that here. A Vezina winner, who holds great results in the regular season and playoffs when it comes to statistics like Save Percentage.

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Old
03-09-2011, 08:48 PM
  #728
tony d
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Barasso's been picked already.

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Old
03-09-2011, 08:52 PM
  #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I didn't think I'd be picking right now and I thought I'd get one more opportunity to speak with arrbez....me and him havent discussed this guy at all so I'm gonna put my ass on the line here to everyone. arrbez can assassinate me if he wishes.

The Inglewood Jacks are proud to select Pat Burns as their coach. He's a tough as nails guy who is very difficult on his players. Seeing as how I don't have anyone I think that would crumple under that system, I think this selection will work out perfectly. Also, he has shown an ability to mesh well quickly, as evidenced by his THREE Jack Adams Awards in the first season he is with a team. Burns is known for his defensive style, so he should fit well with the makeup of this team to this point. Unfortunately, he just passed on this past NOVEMBER from from colon cancer.



Cheers to Pat Burns.
Good pick for a defensive minded team. I see him as basically a slightly better version of Jacques Lemaire in this.

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Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
I would have picked him up at 517th for sure.

Good pick , even if I'm not that happy about it
Good thing for your sake you didn't get him. I think Pat Burns would be a horrible fit for a Gretzky-led team.

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Old
03-09-2011, 08:56 PM
  #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Damn those voters for being completely right!
You're probably technically correct (there is no coach's wing, just a builder's wing and Burns isn't really a builder. Shero isn't in for the same reason), but you probably should have said why.

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Old
03-09-2011, 09:14 PM
  #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
We're into the 500's. I don't think anyone has the energy to do a big spiel about their pics anymore.
speak for yourself, bud...

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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
Shoulda been in the HHOF by now. But the entire hockey world already knows that. Damn voters.
I can't blame them for holding true to the definition of "builder" and not extending that to also mean "really good coach"

Quote:
Originally Posted by advantage2006 View Post
Apologize for the skipped pick.

The Montreal AAA select: G - Tom Barrasso

I've waited for a while..partially due to my stupidity and partially cause I wanted some guys more than some of the available goalies...this guy falls due to his attittude and his frustrations when he isn't a starter. He doesn't have to worry about that here. A Vezina winner, who holds great results in the regular season and playoffs when it comes to statistics like Save Percentage.
this is heartbreaking! You were clearly pretty sure about this pick, and you can't have him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You're probably technically correct (there is no coach's wing, just a builder's wing and Burns isn't really a builder. Shero isn't in for the same reason), but you probably should have said why.
I disagree. Shero was not just a very successful and skilled coach; he was an innovator at the NHL level.

(this would be a good time for you to say, "yeah, yeah, I knew you were gonna say that")

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Old
03-09-2011, 09:18 PM
  #732
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Nighthawks select Charlie Huddy, D.

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Old
03-09-2011, 09:24 PM
  #733
tony d
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Originally Posted by Nighthawks View Post
Nighthawks select Charlie Huddy, D.
Fiddlesticks myself and Dave where ready to pounce on him with our next pick. Solid stay at home defenseman. Much better than some others who have been picked.

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Old
03-09-2011, 09:34 PM
  #734
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In case anybody with an upcoming pick doesn't read the trade thread, I'm looking to trade up ASAP for a certain guy. I'm pretty flexible with what I'll offer and am willing to give up a fair amount. (I posted an offer or two on the trade thread, but I'm willing to change things around quite a bit).


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 03-09-2011 at 09:41 PM.
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Old
03-09-2011, 09:35 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Damn those voters for being completely right!
I remember explaining why this is true on the day after his death on a Leaf Board as everyone was ranting about how the HHOF voters suck (not that I completely disagree, but for different reasons) because Pat Burns wasn't inducted.

Good times.

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Old
03-09-2011, 09:47 PM
  #736
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Nighthawks select Rick MacLeish, C.

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Old
03-09-2011, 09:57 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Nighthawks View Post
Nighthawks select Rick MacLeish, C.
I'm pretty sure he's long gone.

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Old
03-09-2011, 09:59 PM
  #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I'm pretty sure he's long gone.
You are right; he's gone, and it's been a long time. I read his bio just yesterday.

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Old
03-09-2011, 10:46 PM
  #739
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Thanks for the comment! Since the start of the draft, my 3rd line RW is now the guy whom I got the most praise about ... it dosn't look good for the future of my team!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post


Damnit, first choice for a coach for my next pick (albeit in 80 selections so I wasn't sure if he would fall, seems not!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Reijo Ruotsalainen,D

Hope he hasn't been selected.. don't have a lot of time to search right now.
The best defenceman available, no doubt. I was very close to selecting him, but he just was not the right fit. By far the most celebral and best offensive defenceman available, but in the ATD, you want him playing sheltered minute at ES with some good PP time. As one of the few team that don't have a goaltender yet (and two great PP weapon at defence), his poor defensive play + physique makes him too much of a liability on a team that can't count of his goaltender to repair defensive error time after time. With an above average goaltender on my team, no doubt I'm selecting him.

---

I would love to continue making those big biography on my players, but working 50 hours a week, while working out 3-time a week while trying to have some kind of social life is very difficult. The draft is moving too fast in this context. I still prefer having time to do one big biography every two weeks than just making the relatively easy bio in less time, so I'm asking you guys to choose the next guy you want me to do my bio on, for any personal reason you may have. The guys available are:

Vladimir Vikulov
Don Marcotte
Ken Mosdell
Floyd Curry

I'll probably have a couple of hours to spare into starting a biography tomorrow.

Cheers!

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Old
03-09-2011, 11:10 PM
  #740
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There have been long bios done of Marcotte and Mosdell fairly recently (though obviously you could improve them). Still, I'd vote for Curry or Vikulov.

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Old
03-09-2011, 11:31 PM
  #741
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
There have been long bios done of Marcotte and Mosdell fairly recently (though obviously you could improve them). Still, I'd vote for Curry or Vikulov.
Agree.

And yeah, the draft never moves quite slow enough for my liking. If I can do one bio every 4 days, then I'll be finishing around semifinal time.

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Old
03-09-2011, 11:40 PM
  #742
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By the way I don't think anyone's said anything about this pick yet, but I like MadArcand's Verbeek pick. We were looking at him with the Madden pick, but just decided that although he's a great pest he just wasn't good enough defensively to play on our defensive third line. And we also had our two top RWs so we couldn't play him second line RW (which I totally think he's capable of as an energy guy in a 40 team draft if he's playing a Chris Kunitz style of game for instance just running around hitting everything and chipping in some cheap goals in front of the net). We just couldn't personally justify taking a fourth liner that early.

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Old
03-09-2011, 11:41 PM
  #743
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Verbeek is an elite 4th liner on a 4th line that you're not expecting much offense from. And as you said, he doesn't bring a whole lot of defense either. He's a guy I'd probably never draft, simply because he's pretty one dimensional.

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Old
03-09-2011, 11:46 PM
  #744
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The Gwinnett Gladiators are very pleased to select a guy we didn't expect to be here, at all, but who we feel is perfect for a high-powered offensive team - coach Cecil Hart.

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03-09-2011, 11:47 PM
  #745
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I read up on Cecil Hart while I was looking at coaches, and he liked teams with fast forwards and big, punishing defensemen - do you have that?

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Old
03-09-2011, 11:47 PM
  #746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Verbeek is an elite 4th liner on a 4th line that you're not expecting much offense from. And as you said, he doesn't bring a whole lot of defense either. He's a guy I'd probably never draft, simply because he's pretty one dimensional.
I disagree about saying that he'd be an elite 4th liner on a 4th line youre not expecting offense from. The guy's a 500 goal scorer for Christs sake with 4 40 goal seasons and 2 seasons where he narrowly missed 40. And he's a great pest. I see no reason you can't have Verbeek playing right wing on a good offensive 4th line.....

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Old
03-09-2011, 11:51 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I disagree about saying that he'd be an elite 4th liner on a 4th line youre not expecting offense from. The guy's a 500 goal scorer for Christs sake with 4 40 goal seasons and 2 seasons where he narrowly missed 40. And he's a great pest. I see no reason you can't have Verbeek playing right wing on a good offensive 4th line.....
Pat Verbeek seasons top-10 in goals: zero.

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Old
03-09-2011, 11:52 PM
  #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
I read up on Cecil Hart while I was looking at coaches, and he liked teams with fast forwards and big, punishing defensemen - do you have that?
I've got fast everything. Hart was known as an offensive innovator and Gwinnett has a lot of speed and talent on the offensive side. I don't think lacking a Taffy Abel type is going to hold us back here.

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Old
03-09-2011, 11:54 PM
  #749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
I had my eye on Babcock as well. What pushed me over was his surprisingly mediocre playoff special teams with Detroit, especially the PK. Detroit's PK seems to be rather overrated. The other thing was the backlash that I thought I would get. Bob Johnson was the next logical choice for me. On top of his pretty solid NHL resume, he has a DOMINANT NCAA coaching record, which I think has to be taken into consideration.
i did not know their PK had a reputation.

'06: 78.4%
'07: 86.8%
'08: 85.7%
'09: 73.2%
'10: 81.2%

only '09 was bad, but PK was bad almost that entire season, mostly b/c of goaltending, imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I don't think Babcock is a bad pick at all. Is he the best coach left? No, I can think of 2 more with better resumes just off the top of my head. But they don't bring the same package that Babcock brings.

And I actually like the Shero/Ivan comparisons. Babcock isn't on their level year, but... imagine if his team had just won game 7 in 2003 or 2009....

I would rather have Babcock than Lemaire in this, unless I was drafting a very specialized team like the one papershoes has.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I wouldn't be so quick to say it's that straightforward though.

Imagine he did win game 7 in 2003 or 2009. (actually, let's say 2003 because then he could say he won with a mediocre team, not just stacked ones) And he retired at the end of this year. Would he be regarded as "one of the geniuses/innovators of this era"? Would some respected hockey people be clamouring for his HHOF induction as a builder 20 years after his death?

That aside, looking only at NHL resumes isn't entirely fair to coaches. For players, yes, we want to see what they did at the highest level of competition, but it's not really any "easier" to coach at lower levels.

I think the higher the level, the more it matters, obviously, but non-NHL stuff certainly can help pad a resume for a coach and demonstrate a greater track record, particularly if they were regarded as the best at other levels, and won championships, etc. Everybody accepts this to different degrees, otherwise, about 1/3 of sub-ATD coaches taken in 2010 would not be viable picks (imagine them as players with those resumes, a couple have only coached junior!)

Babcock's resume includes two uneventful AHL seasons, and a decent .532 win% over 8 junior seasons.

Aside from Shero's NHL success largely being credited to his ability to create something from a bunch of scrubs and three special players, his non-NHL resume is one of the best of all-time, if not the 2nd best (It is obvious whose is the best). In minor pro leagues, he won 6 championships and went to 3 other finals, in 14 years, and had a .578 win%. He was coach of the year twice, too. Being in 13 finals in 24 seasons of pro hockey is amazing.
i don't have a good idea how coaches are generally rated, other than by wins. evaluating coaches is much, much harder than evaluating players, and i think comparing coaches with similar success from different eras is not far from guessing.

imo, the most important things about coaches in ATD are style of play, which is much easier to know, and managing players. some coaches and players also did not have good relationships. i know a couple of my players had bad relationships with a coach.


i know almost nothing about babcock's coaching career before the NHL, but i looked up his AHL team's record in that period.

cincinnati mighty ducks
'98: 23-37-13-7 ... -60
'99: 35-39-4-2 ... -22
'00: 30-37-9-4 ... -17

'01: 41-26-9-4 ... +6
'02: 33-33-11-3 ... +5


'03: 26-35-13-6 ... -40
'04: 29-37-13-1 ... -23
'05: 44-31-4-1 ... +15


wikipedia:
Quote:
In 1988, Babcock was appointed head coach at Red Deer College in Alberta. He spent three seasons at the school, winning the provincial collegiate championship and earning coach-of-the-year honours in 1989.

Babcock moved to the Western Hockey League in 1991 where he guided the Moose Jaw Warriors for a two-year term. He then served one season as bench boss of the University of Lethbridge Pronghorns, earning Canada West coach-of-the-year honours in 1993–94 after guiding Lethbridge to their first-ever appearance in post-season play and an entirely unexpected Canadian university national title with a 34–11–3 over-all mark.

In 1994, he was appointed coach of the WHL’s Spokane Chiefs, where he posted a regular-season record of 224–172–29 over six seasons for a .564 winning percentage. He was named twice as the West Division coach of the year (1995–1996 and 1999–00).

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Nighthawks select Charlie Huddy, D.
best youtube video about hockey:


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Old
03-09-2011, 11:59 PM
  #750
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Quote:
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Pat Verbeek seasons top-10 in goals: zero.
Even strength goals he was top 10 twice. I doubt that a lot of 4th liners are going to be able to say that when all is said and done.

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