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Paul Fenton a lead candidate as next Sens GM.

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Old
03-04-2011, 10:15 AM
  #26
pepty
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He sounds like a great choice. Nashville has done wonders with a team well below the cap.

Hope he keeps on Pierre Dorion though.

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03-04-2011, 11:14 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by SensHero View Post
I dont' think anybody counts hiring yourself to do the job as a coach. He took over until they could find a replacement. He has only fired 2 coaches. I'm not sure why anyone even cares about that. Do you want to continue with a coach that isn't working or do you want a new guy in place to try and fix things. Seems easy to me. I could care less whether Murray fires another coach or not, I just want the right guy. As for Clouston, his contract is up anyway. Who is to say that they can come to an agreement about salary or term. Clouston was the right guy for the job at the time. He came in and assesed the talent, had a good season last year. This year because of many factors, things haven't gone well. It's probably time to move on, but that doesn't mean Clouston was a bad hire at the time. Every coach has a shelf life, Clouston time may just be up. Move on, no big deal.
Everyone acts like firing a coach is the end of the world and that the GM should go to. Who the hell cares, if you hire a guy and he doesn't work hard like he said he would, if he doesn't manage players like he said he would, if he doesn't coach like he said he would, then you fire him and find a new one. How the hell would Murray know that Hartsburg would run half hour practices and then sit in his office with his feet on the desk shooting the s**t all afternoon? He didn't do his job, so get the ****** out. No big deal.
He's had 3 coaches, 4 if you include Murray. Which I do.

As to why anyone would care, it's a sign of an organization in turmoil - that's why. The situation and destination become much less desirable for both players and other potential coaches.
It also highlights bad decision making by a GM. So it's a big deal. A very big deal.

IMO Clouston leaving isn't going to be over salary, it's going to be over performance.

Which is the same reason Murray should be let go - over performance.

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03-04-2011, 11:18 AM
  #28
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Fenton's done great work at keeping a team competitive with a small payroll. Who's to say he could do the same when he has a lot more money to work with? He's been forced to find the cheaper, more efficient players his whole career. With an owner who spends to the cap, how do we know Fenton won't overpay for the "home run" guy or pay more for intangibles, just like Murray has?

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03-04-2011, 11:35 AM
  #29
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He's had 3 coaches, 4 if you include Murray. Which I do.

As to why anyone would care, it's a sign of an organization in turmoil - that's why. The situation and destination become much less desirable for both players and other potential coaches.
It also highlights bad decision making by a GM. So it's a big deal. A very big deal.

IMO Clouston leaving isn't going to be over salary, it's going to be over performance.

Which is the same reason Murray should be let go - over performance.
Would you consider the Devils under Lou's reign an organization in turmoil? Pretty sure he's between 7 and 10 coaches in his stay there. There's a few other places too that the GM burned through several coaches before finding one to stick with a while and are considered model franchises.

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Old
03-04-2011, 11:39 AM
  #30
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Would you consider the Devils under Lou's reign an organization in turmoil? Pretty sure he's between 7 and 10 coaches in his stay there. There's a few other places too that the GM burned through several coaches before finding one to stick with a while and are considered model franchises.
In his defense two of 'em (Sutter and Lemaire) quit on him, they were not fired. Sutter was his guy, he would have been there for a long time.

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03-04-2011, 11:40 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Caeldan View Post
Would you consider the Devils under Lou's reign an organization in turmoil? Pretty sure he's between 7 and 10 coaches in his stay there. There's a few other places too that the GM burned through several coaches before finding one to stick with a while and are considered model franchises.
Lou has been a mainstay with that franchise for over 20 years, and he's got the rings to back it up, along with the regular season success as well (minus this year). Also, when the devils fire coaches, they "reassign" them to other positions within the organization. Finally, in the last few years, he's gone through a lot of coaches but several of those were out of his hand. Pat Burns stepped down because he had cancer. Larry Robinson resigned due to stress, Jacques Lemaire retired () and Brent Sutter quit to coach the flames. If you have several coaches over a long period of time, it's not so bad. If you have 4 new coaches in 4 years, that's simply terrible, along with the fact that we've been one of the worst NHL teams for extended periods of time under all four of these coaches.

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03-04-2011, 11:49 AM
  #32
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...and having Brodeur in nets could have helped Lou out a little bit too

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Old
03-04-2011, 12:19 PM
  #33
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...

Let Murray be our Scotty Bowman or Bob Gainey. Just sit in the stands and be the behind the scenes genious.
A real good idea.

I'd even go so far as to call it genious.

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Old
03-04-2011, 12:23 PM
  #34
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I would too if I was allowed to hire 3 coaches, complete destroy a Stanely Cup finalist and throw money at old Russian players like a drunken sailor....and I still had my job paying my over $1 million a year...
The writing was on the wall... our talent pool had run dry, besides what we had on the team. Those core players began to get complacent, as if they were owed the playoffs and they didn't have to earn it. Last season was the first time I saw a team who felt they needed to earn a playoff birth... it was refreshing.

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03-04-2011, 12:59 PM
  #35
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I would too if I was allowed to hire 3 coaches, complete destroy a Stanely Cup finalist and throw money at old Russian players like a drunken sailor....and I still had my job paying my over $1 million a year...
If firing coaches means so much, wonder why Lou is still employed.

The coach angle is a very weak argument, and the only reason the Sens got a sniff of the SCF was because of Murray.

Anyone that thinks that team was going to repeat, or even come close again really doesn't know much about hockey.

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03-04-2011, 01:06 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
If firing coaches means so much, wonder why Lou is still employed.

The coach angle is a very weak argument, and the only reason the Sens got a sniff of the SCF was because of Murray.

Anyone that thinks that team was going to repeat, or even come close again really doesn't know much about hockey.


Not sure what you mean. All he did as coach was open the barn door.

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03-04-2011, 01:09 PM
  #37
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Lou has been a mainstay with that franchise for over 20 years, and he's got the rings to back it up, along with the regular season success as well (minus this year). Also, when the devils fire coaches, they "reassign" them to other positions within the organization. Finally, in the last few years, he's gone through a lot of coaches but several of those were out of his hand. Pat Burns stepped down because he had cancer. Larry Robinson resigned due to stress, Jacques Lemaire retired () and Brent Sutter quit to coach the flames. If you have several coaches over a long period of time, it's not so bad. If you have 4 new coaches in 4 years, that's simply terrible, along with the fact that we've been one of the worst NHL teams for extended periods of time under all four of these coaches.
While some of what you have said is true, you have left out some key parts, like Julien, MacLean, even himself.

I think Lou and other GMs have shown that firing coaches isn't regarded by the owners as quite the negative some fans seem to think it is.

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03-04-2011, 01:11 PM
  #38
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Not sure what you mean. All he did as coach was open the barn door.
Yup, you are definitely someone that has a deep understanding of the game.

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Old
03-04-2011, 01:49 PM
  #39
Kellogs
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Originally Posted by senswon View Post
...and having Brodeur in nets could have helped Lou out a little bit too
Well, the devils have Lou to thank for that

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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
While some of what you have said is true, you have left out some key parts, like Julien, MacLean, even himself.

I think Lou and other GMs have shown that firing coaches isn't regarded by the owners as quite the negative some fans seem to think it is.
I didn't leave out coaches, I just mentioned over the last 7 years, they've had 4 coaches step down, and named them. And despite all the firings (minus John MacLean), the team hasn't suffered because of the coaching. Ultimately, Lou's got the wins to justify his decisions far more than someone like Murray under the current circumstances, and it's not even close. Show me another GM currently in the league who has had as short a tenure on their team as Murray, have had close to the same number of coaches and still have their job. But in doing so, you'll also be pointing out to me the most dysfunctional franchises in the NHL.

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If firing coaches means so much, wonder why Lou is still employed.

The coach angle is a very weak argument, and the only reason the Sens got a sniff of the SCF was because of Murray.

Anyone that thinks that team was going to repeat, or even come close again really doesn't know much about hockey.
Right, the only reason why we got to the SCF is because we were coached by a guy with over 20 years of experience in the league who had never gotten past the 2nd round himself as a coach? Nothing to do with the fact that the core had been one of the better regular season teams over the previous 4-5 seasons, or faced a weakened Eastern conference?

Also, could it be that firing coaches is bad news because it hurts the owner's bottom line? I'm not sure about the Devil's financial situation, but the Sens have been losing money, and like I mentioned before, with the devils, their fired coaches are still employed by the organization so they still contribute at some level as opposed to just collecting a paycheck.

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03-04-2011, 02:05 PM
  #40
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Right, the only reason why we got to the SCF is because we were coached by a guy with over 20 years of experience in the league who had never gotten past the 2nd round himself as a coach? .
Well this team hadn't got close before Murray, or since Murray. Murray replace Martin, a pretty good coach, who had an even stronger group than Murray inherited.

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but the Sens have been losing money,
Do a little research, you might find that the Sens have actually made money since Melnyk bought them. Now I am not suggesting anyone would be happy paying someone for nothing, I am sure Melnyk was significantly more upset paying Heatley the $4M (which was substantially more than Paddock and Hartsburg contracts) than he was the coaches.

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03-04-2011, 02:06 PM
  #41
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Anyone comparing Murray's situation to Lou's and saying that both have fired coaches, therefore it shouldn't matter for Murray because Lou still has a job, is out of their mind.

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Well this team hadn't got close before Murray, or snice Murray. Murray replace Martin, a pretty good coach, who had an even stronger group than Murray inherited.
This team was a game away before Murray (with a much better chance of winning the cup if they made it to the SCF), and since Murray has taken over his current position they've been garbage. Murray is a good coach, a mediocre GM.

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03-04-2011, 02:07 PM
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double post

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03-04-2011, 02:11 PM
  #43
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If they keep playing this way right through to the end of the year, god forbid; do you think Clouston will be retained or is he gone regardless of the remainder of the season?

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03-04-2011, 02:15 PM
  #44
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If they keep playing this way right through to the end of the year, god forbid; do you think Clouston will be retained or is he gone regardless of the remainder of the season?
He's gone.

Which is funny. I think Clouston would be a better coach for next year's team than for this year's team. He seems to be a better AHL / developmental coach at this stage of his career than an NHL coach.

I think he would make a good assistant coach.

e: knowing nothing about his personal behavior or methods (so I could be way off base, of course... these guys are managers and leaders, and maybe he's lacking in that department in some way)

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03-04-2011, 02:22 PM
  #45
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Jim Nill please.

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03-04-2011, 02:26 PM
  #46
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Jim Nill please.
Not possible.

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03-04-2011, 02:28 PM
  #47
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Would you consider the Devils under Lou's reign an organization in turmoil?
3 Stanley Cups.

13 straight seaons in the playoffs, the modern day record.

Made the playoffs every year since the lockout, and in that 5 year span has 4 division titles.

9 time division champs.


Murray, not so much. he ended Ottawa's 11 year season run and we are a lottery team. Kinda no comparison. If Murray even had 1 Cup ring, you could make an argument, but the results speak for themselves.

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03-04-2011, 02:31 PM
  #48
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He's gone.

Which is funny. I think Clouston would be a better coach for next year's team than for this year's team. He seems to be a better AHL / developmental coach at this stage of his career than an NHL coach.

I think he would make a good assistant coach.

e: knowing nothing about his personal behavior or methods (so I could be way off base, of course... these guys are managers and leaders, and maybe he's lacking in that department in some way)
Clouston wasn't a great coach in Binghamton according to a few fans of the Binghamton Sens.

It seems to me that since the purge the Sens are playing a free flowing game, a lot less structured or mechanical.

Then today in the Citizen, Don Campbell wrote, "With nothing on the line, not even his future employment, Sens head coach Cory Clouston has let his players open things up and even carry the puck a little instead of always chipping it in and going to 'spaces.' It's paying off with better chances."

I don't think CC should stay, he has lots to learn himself, the Sens need someone like Muller who has shown he can put together a solid offensive plan.

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Old
03-04-2011, 02:32 PM
  #49
Kellogs
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Well this team hadn't got close before Murray, or since Murray. Murray replace Martin, a pretty good coach, who had an even stronger group than Murray inherited.
Martin also coached a team who's player payroll was half of that compared to the main contenders at the time, while Murray coached a team that was spending equal amounts compared to the other top teams. And to say that the team hadn't gotten close with Martin is laughable. Losing in game 7 of the ECF with 2 mins left is not "close" to making it to the cup final?

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Do a little research, you might find that the Sens have actually made money since Melnyk bought them. Now I am not suggesting anyone would be happy paying someone for nothing, I am sure Melnyk was significantly more upset paying Heatley the $4M (which was substantially more than Paddock and Hartsburg contracts) than he was the coaches.
Of course they've made money since he's gotten them, but they have actually been losing money under Murray. Someone else had posted the figures which showed the Sens made some money between the time when Melnyk initially purchased the team, until around 06-07. They may have made money in 07-08 but I don't recall. The problem however with Murray, is that it isn't just the Heatley bonus. Add up the money paid to Paddock, and Hartsburg, Eli Wilson, and now start adding buyouts to Emery, Cheechoo, wasted money on Kovalev, Leclaire, Kuba and that amount becomes more significant.

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He's gone.

Which is funny. I think Clouston would be a better coach for next year's team than for this year's team. He seems to be a better AHL / developmental coach at this stage of his career than an NHL coach.

I think he would make a good assistant coach.

e: knowing nothing about his personal behavior or methods (so I could be way off base, of course... these guys are managers and leaders, and maybe he's lacking in that department in some way)
It seems to have been rumoured and mentioned several times on these boards that Clouston is not a good communicator. That is definitely not the ideal type of coach you want to teach your team's young players.

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Old
03-04-2011, 02:38 PM
  #50
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Um, the money spend on Kovalev and Kuba was far from wasted. It wasn't the most efficient use of funds, but lets not pretend that they did not contribute.

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