HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Paul Fenton a lead candidate as next Sens GM.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-04-2011, 02:40 PM
  #51
jordan7hm
Registered User
 
jordan7hm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Clouston wasn't a great coach in Binghamton according to a few fans of the Binghamton Sens.

It seems to me that since the purge the Sens are playing a free flowing game, a lot less structured or mechanical.

Then today in the Citizen, Don Campbell wrote, "With nothing on the line, not even his future employment, Sens head coach Cory Clouston has let his players open things up and even carry the puck a little instead of always chipping it in and going to 'spaces.' It's paying off with better chances."

I don't think CC should stay, he has lots to learn himself, the Sens need someone like Muller who has shown he can put together a solid offensive plan.
There are two kinds of AHL coaches though. There are winners at the AHL level, and there are developers (well, there are also bad coaches, the third kind). I always got the sense that Clouston was a bit more of a developer. As I said, I could be off base.

I don't think Bingo would be ok with any developers though. After all this time, they want a winner.

jordan7hm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-04-2011, 02:40 PM
  #52
Kellogs
G'night Sweet Prince
 
Kellogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobofish View Post
Um, the money spend on Kovalev and Kuba was far from wasted. It wasn't the most efficient use of funds, but lets not pretend that they did not contribute.
Fair enough.

Kellogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-04-2011, 03:02 PM
  #53
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellogs View Post
Martin also coached a team who's player payroll was half of that compared to the main contenders at the time, while Murray coached a team that was spending equal amounts compared to the other top teams. And to say that the team hadn't gotten close with Martin is laughable. Losing in game 7 of the ECF with 2 mins left is not "close" to making it to the cup final?
You need alright. No other way than to say this, just BS.

Players salaries rise and somehow that means the players now are better and Murray's achievements are somehow less.

2002/03 A team that finished first in the Eastern conference, with players like Hossa, Havlat, Alfie, Redden, Chara, Phillips etc. A team that lost to NJ in the east finals, a team that didn't make it. I apologize, I have tried my best to forget that disappointment.

Murray inherited a team in 2005/6 that wasn't close in talent to the 2002/3 squad, yet somehow found a way to get them into the ECF, and with a rookie goaltender.

Therefore Murray is a lousy coach.

Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-04-2011, 03:29 PM
  #54
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellogs View Post
Of course they've made money since he's gotten them, but they have actually been losing money under Murray. Someone else had posted the figures which showed the Sens made some money between the time when Melnyk initially purchased the team, until around 06-07. They may have made money in 07-08 but I don't recall. The problem however with Murray, is that it isn't just the Heatley bonus. Add up the money paid to Paddock, and Hartsburg, Eli Wilson, and now start adding buyouts to Emery, Cheechoo, wasted money on Kovalev, Leclaire, Kuba and that amount becomes more significant.
I posted the figures before, here they are.

According to Forbes:
2003 Revenue $35M Loss $2M GM Muckler
2004 Revenue $48M Loss $5M GM Muckler
2005 Lockout
2006 Revenue $42M Profit $4M GM Muckler
2007 Revenue $46M Profit $10M GM Muckler/Murray
2008 Revenue $54M Profit $5M GM Murray
2009 Revenue $57M Loss $4M GM Murray
2010 Revenue $60M Loss $4M GM Murray

** any revenue sharing monies not included.

As far as your contention he wasted money, I disagree but won't bother giving my reasons.

It is obvious you feel all the problems with the Senators are Murray's, therefore there really is no point in a continuing discussion.

I will wait for Melnyk to announce who his management staff is at the end of the season. Should Murray still be the Vice Pesident of Hockey Operations, or even employed by the Senators, then I think that will be sufficent evidence to disprove your contention.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 03-04-2011 at 03:35 PM.
Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-04-2011, 06:02 PM
  #55
Kellogs
G'night Sweet Prince
 
Kellogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
You need alright. No other way than to say this, just BS.

Players salaries rise and somehow that means the players now are better and Murray's achievements are somehow less.
It's not that player salaries rose for the Senators, and more like the payrolls of our competitors severely shrank. If I remember correctly, prior to the lockout we were spending in the 30 million range (31 million seems to be a number that's in my head right now). Our competitors like the Leafs, Red Wings, Flyers, Avalanche, Devils were easily spending in the 50-60 million range (some went as high as 70 million). The cap arrives, and even with the 24% salary rollback, that takes those payrolls down to 38-45 million, and for those teams in the upper range, they had to bring their player salaries down to the 39 million cap. That's why there's so much parity in the league now, because teams can't afford to keep their players and they're forced to trade them or let them go to free agency, like it happened to us with Havlat and Chara, or like it happened to the hawks this past summer.

Quote:
2002/03 A team that finished first in the Eastern conference, with players like Hossa, Havlat, Alfie, Redden, Chara, Phillips etc. A team that lost to NJ in the east finals, a team that didn't make it. I apologize, I have tried my best to forget that disappointment.

Murray inherited a team in 2005/6 that wasn't close in talent to the 2002/3 squad, yet somehow found a way to get them into the ECF, and with a rookie goaltender.

Therefore Murray is a lousy coach.
Wow, nice straw man argument when I never made a comment on Murray's coaching ability, when all I disputed was your claim that Murray was the only reason that we made it to the cup finals. And to say the 05/06 team wasn't even close in talent as the 02/03 squad is also way out there. What significant piece did the 05/06 squad miss out on? While it's clear the 06/07 team had less talent, they were still expected to be cup challengers before that season started, and as hockey history has always shown, it's not always the most talented teams that win.

Quote:
As far as your contention he wasted money, I disagree but won't bother giving my reasons.

It is obvious you feel all the problems with the Senators are Murray's, therefore there really is no point in a continuing discussion.

I will wait for Melnyk to announce who his management staff is at the end of the season. Should Murray still be the Vice Pesident of Hockey Operations, or even employed by the Senators, then I think that will be sufficent evidence to disprove your contention.
If anything my post history has shown, it's that I don't place the entire blame on Murray, but nice try misrepresenting my words. I also place significant blame on other factors, such as poor management decisions by Muckler, the Salary Cap, and the decline of Alfie. However, that doesn't mean that because of these additional factors which are also responsible for the state of the Senators franchise that I will absolve Bryan Murray of any blame. That's like saying that because it's not entirely Clouston's fault that this season went down the crapper he shouldn't be replaced. And finally, as I have said repeatedly that I have no objection with Murray staying on as an advisory role or as VP of Hockey Operations, and I've always expected this even before this rebuild was in full swing.

Kellogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-04-2011, 06:38 PM
  #56
Rumcajs
Registered User
 
Rumcajs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,508
vCash: 500
I really hope Murray sticks around, but Coaching...thats different.

Rumcajs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-04-2011, 07:11 PM
  #57
pepty
Let's win it all
 
pepty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,496
vCash: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
If firing coaches means so much, wonder why Lou is still employed.

The coach angle is a very weak argument, and the only reason the Sens got a sniff of the SCF was because of Murray.Anyone that thinks that team was going to repeat, or even come close again really doesn't know much about hockey.
And yet before he came to Ottawa Murray never coached any team past the second round of the playoffs.

pepty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-04-2011, 08:18 PM
  #58
Derivation
Registered User
 
Derivation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,006
vCash: 500
If Murray's cap hit isn't too high I'd like to see Melnyk re-sign him for 2 years.

Derivation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-04-2011, 09:45 PM
  #59
salomonster
Registered User
 
salomonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Double dot
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,392
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensjersey11 View Post
Agreed, sort of.
We'll probably have a new GM next year, but Murray will retain his current title as Executive Vice President and Alternate Governor to Melnyk. He'll basically be reduced in his GM role, but still heavily active on the hockey side of the business in an advisory/ scouting capacity.
Agreed. I think Tim Murray will be the next Sens GM.

With all the moves, all the new young kids and everything going on with the team, I think that Tim Murray and scouting team are already working on the plan as we speak.

That's why BM has made the types of moves that he has. To make room for the future.

salomonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2011, 11:31 AM
  #60
jamwires
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 1,044
vCash: 500
Walter Gretzky.

jamwires is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2011, 01:55 PM
  #61
wjhl2009fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan7hm View Post
There are two kinds of AHL coaches though. There are winners at the AHL level, and there are developers (well, there are also bad coaches, the third kind). I always got the sense that Clouston was a bit more of a developer. As I said, I could be off base.

I don't think Bingo would be ok with any developers though. After all this time, they want a winner.
The ahl is about developing players its not about just winning if bingo just wants a winner and does not want to develope players etc it may be time for ottawa to cut ties with bingo.

wjhl2009fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2011, 10:52 AM
  #62
kyle747
Registered User
 
kyle747's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caeldan View Post
Would you consider the Devils under Lou's reign an organization in turmoil? Pretty sure he's between 7 and 10 coaches in his stay there. There's a few other places too that the GM burned through several coaches before finding one to stick with a while and are considered model franchises.
Are you seriously comparing Murray to Lou? In any way, even for discussion's sake ? Lou will go into the HOF...Murray...won't.

As I mentioned, Murray should be let go based on performance - which is less than mediocre. It would be difficult to hire a top GM to run this club with Murray hanging around, who would want a screw-up looking over your shoulder whispering god-knows-what to the owner.

Murray should be retired with thanks for his services (some of which are respectable). We need some new energy to infuse this club.

kyle747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2011, 12:08 PM
  #63
HappyDude
Fire Cameron
 
HappyDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,393
vCash: 500
Murrays too old. we need a younger GM who pushes for cheerleaders.

HappyDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.